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New Tile Generation - 0 Transparency From the Devs
Could we please have discussions between the community and the developers or even the community consultant program members and the developers before making changes to the fundamental building blocks of this game?
The new tiles, all of which are awful, were snuck into the PTB and finally made it to today's patch. No patch notes on them, no justifications to their additions, and 0 discourse about them because the focus was on Lara Croft.
The devs either do not understand that a short wall with a pallet next to it is terrible game design or are consciously filling the tile generation pool with awful tiles to boost kill rates. 90% of the new tiles the developers create have extremely unsafe pallets (we're talking the bottom floor of temple of purgation levels of unsafe). 5% of them have a single window on a short wall. The other 5% have neither windows nor pallets. Never forget the most egregious example: the forgotten ruins tile where the pallet DID NOT TOUCH THE TREE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LEANING AGAINST. How did that get through QA testing?
I thought that most of their killers were at 60% kill rate. If so, why are we nerfing survivors by creating terrible tiles?
Please can we have discussions before making changes like these? Or at least the rationale behind them? Please remember your commitment to transparency with the community from your roadmap at the beginning of the year.
Comments
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This is what is written in the patch notes :
- Updated new maze tile safety from the feedback collected during the PTB.
However, I do not see any sensible change, in fact they look even worse than before.
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That statement doesn't mean they increased the safety of the tile
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I mean, did anyone expect anything else? From their most recent new Maps and Map Reworks it is quite clear where the direction is going. Overly unsafe, useless Tiles.
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No. BHVR does not have to consult us before making changes to the game.
Agreeing to be transparent doesn't mean they have to discuss everything with us before it goes live.
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I dont really think that they have a QA consisting of veteran players. Noone who knows some things about this game would allow such unreasonable changes to be done. And I heavily doubt that they would revert it. They make undoubtedly clear that they do what they want regarding game design. Community feedback is just a nuisance to their daily chores. I bet DbD is the multiplayer game with the least feedback leading to changes.
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Any time the devs don't do exactly what people want, they get a bunch of feedback that consists of sulking and bitterness, inarticulately screamed at them by a bunch of kids. It genuinely must suck to have to wade through so much garbage trying to find feedback that is actually useful.
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How is the feedback not useful? Saying pallets that may as well not exist are bad design seems like useful feedback.
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it would help if they did things that were actually in tune with what their player base asks for and not the direct opposite. DBD is quite a rare beast in that the feedback from survivors is quite consistent as is it from killers. Unsafe loops have been complained about for some time now, so for BHVR to double down on them is absurd.
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They don't HAVE to, but they should. There have been countless changes made to the game that have had to be reversed or further modified because they didn't listen to player/consultant feedback before implementing.
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Feedback is useful. But the devs are allowed to try things out and see how it goes. People acting like they are offended because BHVR didn't run a change past them just comes across as entitled. It's their game.
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What makes you think the change is even intentional? It might not even be a change they are testing out. It could just be another random bug that has appeared. Why assume it's BHVR doubling down on bad map design?
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I still can’t believe the forgotten ruins tile
First time I saw it from a distance and ran to it during chase for safety only to get closer and realize I was dead and my immediate thought was how tf this this tile make it into the game, is it a meme thing???
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Some things shouldn't even make it to the PTB. Those tiles are horrific.
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If we collect enough tears we can bargain with BHVR for the removal of the offending tile. We just need a thread declaring that Santa isn't real and we'll have enough.
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There is a PTB for a reason. If you could help me understand how my post is "inarticulately screaming at them like a bunch of kids" instead of genuine feedback with concern, that would be awesome. I'm not asking for them to run every single little change by the community, but something as critical to the gameplay of every match like tile generation and tile design is very much relevant to the community.
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At this point it must be intentional. People had alot to say about them on Haddonfield and we still got more in Forbidden Ruins. They're designed for you to take a hit or go down. It's incredibly off putting.
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That comment is not so much specific to you, more a reference to how the forum is filled with people being angry at BHVR because they don't implement every change that they want.
Specifically speaking about your post, you could have taken the time to ask them whether it's an intention change or not, or even just tell them that the tile is weak. Instead you take the approach of suggesting that the devs either can't understand that the tile is badly designed or they just want useless tiles to pad out kill rates. It's a disrespectful way of communicating feedback, and to me, comes across as kind of bratty.
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To be fair, the Devs released SM.
And they either saw no problems or decided to ignore them, so yeah, I think it's totally fair to question that.
As for it being a bug, bugs seem to become features nowadays, so I hardly think it matters
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I'm sorry you think that the post came off as bratty and disrespectful.
To your point of instead asking if it's an intentional change: new tiles don't get created because of bugs or weird interactions with new perks. New tiles are added because someone sat down and took the time in unreal engine to drag walls and pallet object around and place them intentionally. It would be a moot point to ask if this was done intentionally because any way you look at it, yes is the only answer imaginable.
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I'm going to give them a couple of weeks to fix it. If at that point it hasn't been remedied, I will join you in protest and start saying mean things about Hag again.
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The pre-rework version of the Skull Merchant was indeed a skidmark on the game, which we have never truly recovered from. Generations of Dead by Daylight players, scarred for life.
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And yet survivors are still going on minute+ long chases.
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I don't understand this mindset and why you feel the need to say this.
Being unhappy with bad feedback =/= abuse.
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The ever so inaccurate 60% kill rate, which doesn't give any meaningful insight.
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If that happens to you as Killer, you REALLY want to improve.
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How dare survivors still occasionally have some amount of skill expression!
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This is great Survivors not being able to pallet chain to every next loop for free will really show how carried survivor "skill" ceiling is
Devs if your listening add more deadzones between tiles for fairer gameplay
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Where does the killer "skill" come into play with increased deadzones?
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The new tiles are absolutely terrible in terms of safety. Idk how they get the green light to go live.
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I absolutely despise the Toba Landing and Nostromo maps for the very reason they added bizarre and awkward tiles to them. I have only played a few matches today but have experienced a few very odd tiles that may have a pallet but they border on pointless due to their design.
I actually really like the aesthetic of Toba and Nostromo but the tiles make me hate these maps with a passion and now they are starting to do this with other maps.
I don't know how many more bad design decisions I can handle before I call it quits for good
Post edited by MaTtRoSiTy on1 -
I really dislike their direction as mainly killer player. It is so easy to win and therefore boring. I’ve lost a lot of interest in playing the game, because of this.
I really can‘t understand all those people who still call this game survivor sided. I don‘t even use slowdown anymore, because it is overkill.
I rarely touch survivor anymore, because of how unfair maps have become and are becoming for survivors.
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Which new maps and recent map reworks have generally overly unsafe and useless tiles? Haddonfield is bad for survivor, but even that map still has it's share of safe pallet loops as well. It's pallet count and size are just too small. Forgotten Ruins and Greenville are quite the candidates for having too many unsafe pallets, admittedily, though the latter makes up for that with the amount of tiles it has, but a lot of the other map reworks and new maps seem fine in that regard to me.
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Even the newer maps and map reworks still have tiles that are strong and safe. I am not sure where the 90% is coming from in that case. They certainly have been making new tiles that are overly unsafe, that I agree with, but I feel like the amount of unsafe pallets that exist on most maps according to some is a bit exaggerated.
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A lot of people want maps to have many pallets that can be 100% safely chained into each other, with a 0% chance a M1 killer could do anything about it.
The whole double standard is that it’s 100% fine if tiles exist with zero counter play for M1 killers, but it’s unacceptable if tiles exist that are weak for survivors.
Also, the definition of “unsafe tile” varies from person to person. Some people think any tile that is less than 100% safe, is an unsafe tile. And that killers really shouldn’t be able to get hits as long as there are pallets left in the area.
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Well the game was extremely survivor sided in the past and at the top level it still is, though the majority of the player base are nowhere near the top as far as skill goes. So now I would actually consider it slightly killer sided now and on certain maps very killer sided.
I realised how much the balance has shifted when I played today and had a challenge to escape and I wanted adept for Lara and it took quite a while to actually get it. Sure, I had the usual team mates giving up first hook and a DC at 5 gens etc but it still took hours to actually get a single escape. Not like I am a new player either (4.5k hours between accounts - 4.2k on my main).
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I never mentioned abuse. Don't even try and start with that crap. Go back to Twitter.
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