Why is there still no option to display if people are an SWF before the match?
Most other games display wether people are playing together or not. DBD for some reason doesnt even though it should.
For Survivors it would honestly be nice to know if people are on comms or playing togehter since it helps determine if those guys go for the save etc.
For killers it would be nice cause SWFs makes some builds just borderline useless. Oblivious Builds for example make absolutely no sense if everyone just calls out where you are all the time.
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bcs then killers would dodge all of em?
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Because people lobby shop
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Because of multiple reasons. A lot of killer players will skip a lobby if they can tell there's a SWF. On top of that, it would require that every SWF input that they are a SWF, which is easily avoidable if they were even to implement something that counterintuitive.
Basically, it's genuinely a bad idea.
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We could show it after the game.
Even TCM had to remove this feature because people will shop for the easiest games possible.
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I mean I get that a lot of people will just dodge. On the other hand I find it pretty lame to make a build with Hex: Plaything, Trails of Torment, Insidous etc. and get 0 value out of it cause people just constantly call out where I am. Tried this build for like 8 games and in 3 it was literary useless cause ppl were SWF. That also shouldnt happen tbh, that a whole category of build just instantly becomes useless with no way to tell upfront
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One of the most prominent examples of a game that does show premades is Overwatch.
But the thing with Overwatch is that its matches have already begun by the time you see that.
DbD has the pre-game lobby. People will just lobby shop if they see a SWF, since there's no penalty for doing so.
Post edited by GentlemanFridge on8 -
A long time ago, in the land before time Killer's could tell if survivor's were swfs because swfs would load in to the lobby at the same time.
BHVR had a smart idea to remove this feature instead of asking why killer's are dodging.2 -
Honestly if the idea that you can't force people to play out a match and that's why we can't do anything about hook suicides, then the pre-game lobby should show SWF groups so players can decide before the match begins if they want to play it out.
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I don't really see the correlation.
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No one should be forced to play out matches that has a SWF group.
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What do you mean why? Why do you think yourself?
People would either dodge every lobby or hard-tunnel the solo teammate.
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friendly reminder that not every SWF is a seal team six commando bully squad.
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It got so bad that you get a 3 minute matchmaking ban if you dodge a lobby now.
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Which games are you talking about?
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So teams of players would on average get better prepared and stronger killers?
This is a downside?
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It would increase queue times for SWF players and BHVR don't want to punish a large portion of their player base.
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With your logic it would be totally fine to show the Killer pre-match. Then players can decide before if they want to play against a Nurse or a Skull Merchant instead of doing Hook Suicides.
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If SWFs were identified pre-match, it'd be the end of SWFs. 95% of killers in public matches would dodge anything more than a two person team. Myself included, except on the rare day when I'm feeling especially spicy.
Would this hurt me directly? As a strictly solo surv player, no.
And I'm willing to bet that many killer mains think they'd be okay with the end of SWFs, but it would kill the game if you essentially told people they effectively couldn't play with friends anymore. No one wants that.
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Probably not what would happen. Far more likely they'd get the killers who just don't care or even bother to look at the lobby screen.
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Then they either learn to pay attention or feel confident enough to not need to pay attention
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People need to learn and change their behaviors is not an effective game development strategy.
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…………..
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what
learning is too much to ask of players
you have to baby proof something for it to be a good design?
idk what this stance here is trying to take but it is 100% an effective strategy to let people shoot themselves in the foot, whether for their loss or for their benefit, or even both and is 100% a part of effective design
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Sounds like you still got value out of the build for most of the games you ran it in. Seems like you just want to win without trying in which case custom games are perfect for that
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There would be no need for the SWF to input anything. (But showing pre-made status is a bad idea anyway.)
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If they showed SWF in the lobby those teams would all get dodged into oblivion, likely never getting into a trial again. Those killers who previously paid no attention to the lobby certainly would now.
All that dodging would lead to massive queue times for everyone, as around half of all survs are in at least a two-man. Plus it would destroy the matchmaking completely.
This idea is one of those rare things that actually would kill this game.
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learning is too much to ask of playersChanging behaviors isn't going to happen. Some people are going to log into killer and go grab a snack, alt tab, etc. That's inevitable and how they want the game to be.
If others are dodging SWFs, these are the players that will hit the SWFs. In the long run this will lead to unfun games for SWFs and the killers. This potentially leads to both groups quitting the game.
It's easy as a player to say 'we don't need those players', but as a game developer you can't do that.
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I agree. Also, the survivors should see the tunneling/camping quota of the killer for the same reason.
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Yeah and if they do then its just negligence after an update to see swfs in lobbies its not like they wouldn't know the update happened if every match lobby and endscreen suddenly has a new indicator grouping it together or read patch notes saying it, at that point its their loss.
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Sadly, it doesn’t matter. I feel like 1/10 SWF squads are actually trying or hard comming/comp teams, but to anyone, if there’s even a CHANCE for that, they won’t take it. Why not guarantee lack of coordination, even if nearly all SWF squads aren’t there to try hard.
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at that point its their loss.But we're right back to the difference between being a player and a game developer. As a player you can say how you want players to behave, but the developer has to deal with how they will behave.
A Sid Meier quote I like on this: "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
The killers who really care about winning are going to lobby dodge. The ones that don't care won't. In the long run, pretty much everyone ends up unhappy.
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At least show the SWF after the match. We need something to convince us that the match was unreasonable.
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Sadly this isn't just a swf thing. It feels like every time I try to run a full healing build I get matched against plague. Or I'll run a hex build and suddenly there are 2 survivors running small game or inner healing lol. The worse is when I try to run a spooky build and use a map offering, just to lose to another offering. It doesn't happen constantly but enough for me to notice.
Apart from showing both sides what they are up against, or removing any sort of "chance", useless builds will always be possible
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People already optimize the fun out of the game giving them another outlet to give normal killers a breather or at least prep time to put on a stronger build or dodge a lobby if you are just trying to get a challenge done is a square deal id take any day. Id also wager those players already half do that by checking profiles of players to see if they have each other on their friends lists.
I think the average upside is going to be better than the outliers in this case.
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If I would just want to win without real effort like you suggest, I would certainly not bring an oblivious meme build to my matches. And when I say the build wasnt useless in the games where I didnt face SWF I mean that I got like 6 or 7 hooks. Most of the time noone got sacrificed in these games. So contrary to ur brilliant deduction its not about winning my matches
All I wanted to point out is that there was a difference like day and night with how well this build workeded against people who were on comms and people who werent and that I would want a way to tell beforehand, so I can adjust. I could have played those matches effectively perkless and there wouldnt have been a huge difference. I would be fine with not being able to dodge a lobby but seeing if people are and SWF or not so I can adjust my build.
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Not having it before the match makes sense, but not even after the match doesn't
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That's a fair complaint, but also I've lost track of the times I brought a healing build only to be faced with a Plague. That's the risk of bringing in a particular type of build, you may be countered.
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Maybe swf could been shown if lobby dodging gives penalty then as well like in tcm. But at least in endgame screen they could been shown.
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I don’t play killer, but imo there’s nothing wrong with Lobby dodging. If you don’t want to play a match you don’t have to and I’d rather have it done at the match making stage than to go through the rigmarole of loading in only to have a DC a few mins in.
I’d rather take it one step further and be able to see what killer you’re going against too.
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The issue with lobby dodging is the backfilling problem and its terrible effect on matchmaking. Their system gets only one real shot at a fair-ish trial, and then the tolerance widens as players wait. The longer that wait, the more uneven the matchmaking, which usually leads to gross steamrolls.
Most of the complaints about a rookie killer being destroyed by a skilled team, or newbie survs being wreaked by a veteran killer have their roots in that backfilling issue.
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Same reason that survivors don't get to see the killer before a match. There's no reason that anyone should lobby shop. Hell killers shouldn't even see the survivors at all prior to the game. Stop people from looking for specific matches, or swapping perks based on items.
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Exactly this and probably reason many soloQ matches feel unfair. I really think matchmaking should be made tighter.
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You’re not forced to play it out. You can DC if you feel like you’re against a SWF and don’t want to play.
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I don't think dc:s will be issue there is already penalties for that. Information to know what you're facing as killer helps you prepare. Agains't swf the match will likely be tougher.
For seeing what killer you go agains't is just no. It removes all the surpricing element steath killers have and they are already weakest. Everyone would dodge strong killers nurses, blights and hillbillies etc. It would allow survivor specifically prepare agains't specific killers. Everyone would take calm spirit agains't doctor etc. Game is not balanced for that.
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That's just creating a problem though.
Showing SWF in lobby does nothing except harm.
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Survivor comms are just about the only thing that make stealth builds take skill xd
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That's still five games where it worked.
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I quess yes but lobby dodging does screw matchmaking though. But that don't really have to be fixed like in tcm as dbd lobbies get filled quickly though matches might be sometimes unbalanced.
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The ideal thing to do is to simply remove the lobby and hide names until the end-game screen.
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My solution to the perceived dominance of SWFs is pretty simple: don't allow duplicate perks in a SWF and maybe a max. of two duplicate items. This would impaced casual SWFs, like the one I play in, very little, in our SWF most players have their favorite perks and don't go for meta builds. We don't escape every game, but a healty amount of times and we mostly have fun doing our own thing. But the organised seal teams would be toned down a lot, when not everyone could be running Resilience, DH, Unbreakable and their one token flavor perk, which would be either Windows, Iron Will, Head On (on Dead Dog) or the new Finesse.
People playing together isn't the problem, its this organised groups with a gameplan that they hope will make the killer DC, that are causing most of the backlash against SWFs.
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I would argue that if that is true, then it would indicate there is a problem or imbalance in regards to SWF vs Solos, would it not?
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