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I'd like to see a feature similar to the gen bug as anti tunnel mechanic
The generator bug has made solo queue a lot more interesting and, to be honest, enjoyable as survivor. It feels really nice to still have a way of coming back in a game after a teammate gets hard tunneled out early. Anti tunnel mechanics have always been a highly requested feature and this bug feels like it is one.
I would very much like to see a feature similar to this implemented officially, something that seriously deters killers from hard tunneling someone out of the game early because the repercussions are actually tangible.
Comments
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Most tunneling is non-intentional.
Please refer to this Scott Jund video:
https://youtu.be/HI7FFpVpgRY?si=A6NBvVuficjQulpG
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Scott is biased to his own games. As is everyone else.
In higher mmr tunneling is punished much harder then low mrr. I always see his tm being useful, unlike mine.
What is this statement tho? Someone records their games and now that is how it is always everywhere?
Sorry, but this is not even a drop in the ocean in regards to data.
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and do killers get a come back system too? if the gens get way to fast and chases take way to long some survs just hang themselfs?
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You're having more fun because the bug is broken and giving you free wins and escapes not because it's preventing tunnelling.
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Issue is this has nothing to do with tunneling.
For most killers it's near impossible to get 4k when all gens were finished and all survivors alive.
Even last gen is difficult. 3-gen feature makes this even more broken...
And if you think survivors wouldn't play around it, then you are naive.
2 gens left, soloQ on hook and gen 99? Yeah, that survivor is dead...
It doesn't make sense to give survivors better chance at escaping for letting someone die.
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No, this would be a survivor buff. If you buff killers to compensate it becomes a meaningless change
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It's not supposed to prevent tunneling. It's supposed to punish tunneling.
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even though such system would be welcome, it would absolutely require lots of limitations and failsafes against abuse.
also in that case 1v4 for killers should be severely buffed so the killers arent put in lose-lose scenario.
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For this to actually work it would have to be limited to ACTUAL Tunneling, i.e. it would ONLY kick in if one person is killed before anyone else is hooked. That is the actual definition of Tunneling. One person is chased and hooked over and over again without going after anyone else. Is that what you are supporting? If "this" takes places an extra Generator pops when one is done? :)
Or are you actually advocating the current bug which has nothing to do with Tunneling, and everything to do with someone dying and leaving the Lobby takes place?
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Nah, I just want BHVR to implement a system that works in the same spirit as the current bug does. I trust BHVR is smart enough to figure out a good way to do it.
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The current bug isn't working; it is simply reducing the number of Killers playing. It has nothing to do with Tunneling and is already being manipulated by SWF to ensure a 3E, and incidentally being triggered by Solo (also aware of how it works) to leave right away to give the remaining Survivors an edge. More to the point, have you considered that Behavior doesn't agree with your notions? You say you trust them to figure out a good way to do it, but you are aware (I assume) that the game has been around eight years now, and for eight years we have had to listen to people making the same complaints? Perhaps BHVR is smart enough to know what is a real problem and what is just complaining about nothing?
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I'm just posting my feedback in the feedback forum, I don't really care about arguing with you over this.
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I wasn't arguing with you. I asked you questions of a critical thinking nature to fully understand your position, and/or to see if you had thought out your position. Everyone assumes Tunneling, Camping, Slugging, etc. are running rampant. The truth is far more nuanced than that. I'm regularly accused of Tunneling when everyone got three hooks and nobody was hooked twice in a row. How do you think that is possible? Do you see my point? I'm not arguing with you; I'm pointing out that bias clouds perception and the most effective way to make a point starts with making sure you have a salient one to make.
I also trust in the DEV to slowly but surely (emphasis on slowly) deal with issues as they come up. When they have felt it appropriate they have provided more tools to deal with certain tactics. There is a reason they don't simply eliminate those strategies from the game. That too should be given some thought. Dead by Daylight is a unique type of game and by its nature is both deeply frustrating as well as a powerful satisfaction at the same time. Because it is so hard and often geared to bad or good luck, those wins feel really, really good. If what I was saying was wrong, the game would not be going into its 9th year still pretty much on top.
We like to blame our losses on other people or the game. It is human nature. We like to take credit for our wins as if luck or outside input had nothing to do with it. That is also human nature. The trick is to look past those self-serving instincts to truly understand the situation. Only then can you make progress.
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If they implemented something like this, wouldn't it lead to Killers slugging survivors on the ground to avoid losing a generator when they die? Like slugging for the hatch but throughout the entire game.
To be clear, I don't think everyone would do that. But since you're bringing up tunneling and people who tunnel, who want to play in the most optimal way, I feel like that would be inevitable.
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It's not what it does tho.
Survivors let someone else die? It works
Survivor gave up on hook? It works
Killer killed someone with 9 hooks? It works
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wouldn't it lead to Killers slugging survivors on the ground to avoid losing a generator when they die?
So you will have survivors to ask for basekit unbreakable next...
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tbh, my games were much more enjoyable as well as i encountered much less early tunneling. Ofc such a system would need failsaves such that it only works within the first 1 or 2 gens done but there is no need to tunnel at 1 or 0 gens in low or medium mmr. This game should absolutely not be balanced for the small percentage of tournament players who ruin the casual gamers fun by just bulldozing them in public lobbies.
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only works within the first 1 or 2 gens done
Also doesn't work, I can just get someone on dead hook and slug them if needed until X gens get finished.
Or if I manage to kill someone at 5 gens left, 1 gen doesn't really matter to me.
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edit: sorry i misread your message! don't make me think about basekit unbreakable lol
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Ah, finally survivors have the equivalent of what it must feel like to suddenly go down to NOED…. ;)
Still, it's kind of sad that a bug this egregious makes people feel more satisfied about the game. Well, except for the killers of course.
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How anyone is defending this bug is beyond me.
I have only played survivor since the new patch, and I'm living in situations where I absolutely should not have more than half my matches. Killers who are splitting hooks suffering the worst of it, since as soon as they get a kill on a SoloQ player who leaves, the last 2 gens pop after 1 gen is done. Turning a possibly 2k-3k into a instant loss unless they brought no way out.
Meanwhile, more killers are adapting the slug playstyle due to this, and I'm benefitting from UB and Soul Guard due to it since they typically also run Ruin or some kinda hex. This bug isn't justifiable since it can easily be abused, and the tunneled survivor is still getting tunneled anyway if the killer decides to.This is like if we decided the Merciless Storm bug was okay, the time it regressed gens back to 0 from 90.
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What makes you think this game is balanced for the best Players? The DEV firm believers in statistics. Everything they do is based on numbers. The so-called small percentage of tournament Players are an insignificant number when compared to the population of Dead by Daylight Players, and thus they have very little impact on the numbers. The game is balanced on the averages, and some preset ideas of the game designers.
If you are getting bulldozed in your lobbies, the only person you should be taking to task is yourself and your teammates. How many games/hours do you have under your belt? I'm curious.
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I have two main issues here. First, MMR. It does not work, everyone knows that and we all live with that. Once you play against baby killers and today i got matched against someone from team eternal (playing spirit). My escapre rate is higher than the averages stated from december but you cannot win that as a normal SWF or a Soloq :D.
My problem is that tunneling is a stragegy that survivors cannot prepare AFTER the game started. DBD is a game for fun (at least i hope) and that is a big problem. If you focus on anti-tunnel, you cannot do other stuff anymore. Killers on the other hand can always apply the best strategy (including the less fun ones like slugging, 3gening, hit and run…)depending on the current state of the game. I would argue that survivors can adept to everthing exept tunneling as you cannot expect everyone to do 5 gen loops. Early(!) game tunneling is just a cheap way to make your game easier as killer, which you can do, but this is also a guarantee to take away the fun of a minimum of one player and this should not be part of a well designed game.
Which brings me to the next issue: the desirged kill-rate of 60%. What does this mean? This means that on average less than 2 survivors escape somehow. With 2 survivors a bit more frequent than 1 survivor escaping. The devs recently started a trend of buffing weaker killers, which is fine and also nerfed many maps to achieve that. Fine too. But this affects lower MMR much more than higher MMR. And i would not enjoy a game where i constantly lose, because the people in high MMR don't die often enough (which, according to the stats, they don't).
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You did not answer my questions about how many matches and/or hours you have logged in this game. The answers would have given me better context on how to help you. You are making a great number of assumptions above. We do not know if MMR works as intended or not. The DEV created MMR to work in a framework they understand. It could be working exceptionally well from their standpoint and in regards to statistics. The fact that you don't like your matchups is anecdotal evidence, not anything that can be measured. For my own part, it works quite well. When I play I'm up against the best Survivors they can match me with. The fights are, for the most part, hard. That is as it should be. The nature of this game is that you never know who and what level Player is going to be logged in at a given time. The MMR system is going to do the best it can with what it has available. The limitations entirely based upon the pool of available players.
I don't think you truly know what tunneling means. Don't feel bad, most people complaining about it don't know what it means. To be tunneled ONE Survivor has to be hooked and chased and hooked again and chased and killed to the exclusion of chasing anyone else. That is tunneling. There are no half measures. If a Killer is out and about trying to get other people and you happen to get caught twice in a row, doesn't mean you were tunneled. It means you were either unlucky or played badly (or your teammates didn't pull their weight). Actual Tunneling is very specific and happens rarely. The problem is we have a whole bunch of players who don't understand this and cry "TUNNELING" anytime they are feeling singled out. So unless the Killer is ignoring everyone but you, don't cry wolf.
In regards to your last question, the DEV believe that maintaining the horror aspect of the game means that the Killers are likely to get more of you than get out. It is slightly (very slightly) weighted that way. That is a design choice on their part and one I happen to agree with. Dead By Daylight would not feel like a horror movie if the bad guys were always inept or stymied. That would make it Fraggle Rock.
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I actually kinda agree.
I had a few matches where a survivor either got tunneled out super quickly or gave up super early and this bug did help out to make those matches seem fairer/not a complete lost cause.
Though obviously, it shouldn’t be implement exactly like it’s happening now. I don’t think anyone actually defended this bug as it is and in the op it is very clearly stated something SIMILAR to this bug…
(Also agree there should be a mechanic for killers in matches that feel completely lost…)1 -
If a mechanic were implemented that registered a extra Generator if (and only if) one person is hooked three times in a row (and thus sacrificed) without anyone else spending time on the hook, I would agree. Only under those conditions would it be targeted at Tunneling. It can't trigger because someone dies on their 2nd Hook because they gave up or they didn't get there in time. It has to be TRUE TUNNELING that provides that bonus Generator popping and nothing else.
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Idk, how long have you been playing? I used to hate tunneling when I first started, but now accept it when it happens. I actually find that killers are far more likely to not tunnel in my matches. And since I've gotten much better at looping and my solo queue teammates get better, tunneling is actually already detrimental, especially since taking hits and body blocking is normal.
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Between four alts I have 18K hours. :) And and I also agree that Tunneling doesn't come up that often. A good Team of Survivors can make bank off a Tunnel in popping Generators and so on.
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The amount of hours is not related to my points. But i am happy to answer, i have around 3k hours of true playtime and i know what true tunnelign means. I play SWF mostly with a mixture of experienced and less experienced players and due to that my average encounter rate of true tunneling is quite high. Typically we never play sweaty with 4 toolboxes or any kind of that stuff. But killers decide often to start tunneling at 1 or 0 gens done, even on maps which are quite empty or the new type of pallet between two trees or where the long side is 3 meters is your average :). And this is still my only problem. You don't NEED to tunnel that early. You just decide to do it because you want an easier win or to ruin the fun for the other side (same thing is ofc true for the survivor side when you bring 4 toolboxes and some hyperfocus/stake out loadouts, but again, as a killer you can adept to that and i would not be mad if you tunnel early if you see 4 toolboxes but your average game is not like that)
I absolutely disagree with the horror game. DBD is not a horror game, maybe for the first 5 hours where you get jumpscared by a stealth killer. But after that, DBD's horror aspect is gone. DBD is a purely strategic game at this point where your decisions lead to escape or death. If horror would be the main aspect of the game, the main mechanics owuld not be looping and sitting on gens. It would be stealthing and getting jumpscared/brutally killed in a mori. This leads to one major problem: there is no space for error. With all recent changes to maps and the big killer update two years ago the need for efficient gameplay just increased if your goal is to survive. Bus this is not related to any kind of horror aspect, this just leads to strategic gameplay and again, this isa huge problem for SoloQ and especially low MMR. And I absolutely understand that people like to win. Remember when the gen time went up to 90 seconds? Camping+Deadlock more or less guaranteed a 2k (especially if you played bubba) and if the survivors did not understand that, you maybe got a 3rd one. If there is room for an easy win, people will exploit that, because again, DBD is not a horror game, DBD is played like a strategic game and as such we have to treat it. DBD is balanced around a 4vs1 situation but if you are abe to make it a 3vs1 winthin a short time because you werde able to do that (by skill issues, empty maps or no anti tunnel perks) than this initial balance is gone and in my opinion the game should have a design to prevent that from happening too early.
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Don't be silly. You can't just keep on getting systems to make things easier and easier for you while most of the killer roster just gets a middle finger and second class treatment from the developers, it's ridiculous.
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That's why it should have hard requirements only hooking same survivor tree times a row I could see this being implented.
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Yes, I'm afraid your hours are related to your points. Our experience shapes our opinions. However, 3K is respectable enough. It is more than enough hours for you to understand the game. Your attitude, however, is one I associate more with people in their 500-1500k hours of playing the game. Many years of listening to after game salt and peeking at hours has shown certain patterns. Let me ask you this, "Why do you think that you know better than other players what they NEED to be doing?" That is a bit entitled isn't it? I think it is very noble of you and your "experienced" SWF to never play sweaty (or any kind of that stuff as you put it), and that is entirely your purview. You get to decide what is right for you. You know YOUR needs better than anyone. When did you get issued a badge to judge the play of other people, particularly when the choices you are passing judgement on are perfectly acceptable within the game. I put in the caveat that I still don't believe you when you say you see REAL tunneling as often as you do. The hubris and entitlement you display is not uncommon but still funny to me after all these years. Why don't you worry about you and let other people make their own choices?
In regards to the horror aspects of the game. You are simply at odds with the DEV themselves. They have stated repeatedly (and recently) that the mood, tone, and theme of the game is still to pay homage to the horror origins of the game. They have kindly told us roughly the percentages they would like to see as outcomes and how they use those goals to tweak the system toward that end. So, if you don't like those facts, you need to take it up with the DEV because this is their world, we just play in it. What they say goes.
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Still super easy to avoid and they would definitely have to show hook counters at that point to the killer. So sure...
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So every time brightly colored meme outfits/charms and characters that don't fit the game are complained about we're told "DBD isn't a horror game after your first 4 hours". When animations are reworked to look like survivors are going for a morning jog instead of running for their lives we're told it doesn't matter because DBD isn't a horror game. When map reworks completely remove fog and make them bright as day to the point the killer and survivors can wave at each other from across the map we're told it doesn't matter because stealth is boring and it's not a horror game.
But you're telling me when it comes to the core game balance, suddenly we need to make the game unfair because "muh horror aspect"? No, that ship sailed years ago with every other element of horror atmosphere being discarded.
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Of course people are satisfied, being handed wins you otherwise didn't deserve is satisfying for most people because most people like winning.
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While it may be more fun for you to get a free escape it is absolutely frustrating for killers.
Further you have to understand that while there are people who just tunnel from the start a lot of what killers do is a reaction to how survivors play or have played.
I really dislike hard tunneling don't get me wrong there.
But punishing a killer for doing his objective the (as sad as that is) most effective way doesn't work.
BHVR should stop going for the "Kill is Skill" mentality and instead go for hook stages.
Benefiting hook stages over kills would make the game more enjoyable for both sides I think0 -
That is exactly what I'm telling you, or rather the DEV tells us that. Game balance is specifically tilted toward a number the DEV see as correct for escapes versus kills. They do not intend them to be 50/50. :) They have released their intent and why. The reasons I listed are THEIR reasons. It is their game, we just play in it. As I said, the game seeks to invoke the tone and imagery of horror films, and in that respect, the Killer normally gets most of the victims.
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"The devs said so" is not a compelling argument. "It's their game" implies that the game would continue to exist after pissing off a sufficient portion of the players. Revenue from players keeps the game alive, not the benevolence of the devs allowing us to play out of the goodness of their kind hearts.
An argument based on "muh horror aspect" is logically inconsistent with every other trend in their design decisions over the same time period.
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I'm not arguing with you, nor are they. I'm just stating a fact. You can accept that fact or you can go take it up with the DEV. The game's design and balance doesn't have 50/50 in mind. You don't have to like it, but pretending it isn't true or that changing it is even open to debate is simply in error. I agree that they company is based on profit. I think they understand their own business model far better than you do. It stands to reason they make their choices based on sound policy and results.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
"Meg, why didn't you let yourself get killed on the hook ?"
"Why do you asking me this question ? I want to play the game ?""If you had been killed we would have won thanks to the mechanics of a retired generator, you stupid #########.
Insert personal insult and toxic and very serious comments from all other survivors
This is why we will never get a mechanic like that. It's the open-bar for the toxicity, even more than before. I don't want that.
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I play both sides , and yeah I don't like get tunneled either. I enjoy reading the comments, but lately the comments ive been reading to me it sounds like the survivor mains just want to win every game . That not reality, I hate tunneling and camping , but it's part of the game. If a killer wants to take the time and tunnel and camp, then if you have good survivors they should make them pay by finishing up the gens. I don't like getting camped or tunneled but I would take one for the team if need be be. But what's really frustrates me is when that's happening to me, people aren't doing gens , so my death ends up being in vain.
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If a survivor player want to make this bug a feature, they sure seems to want to win every game for free though
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So if 1 survivor is hooked 3 times in a row without any other survivors hooked in the match after they die the next gen to be completed provides double progress. Honestly in most cases there survivors should have already gotten a free win off that unless they mess up or waste time but sure I guess that's enough of an edge case to give survivors a buff.
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Yeah survivors are so quick to take advantages but don't look at it from the Killers perspective. Same reason Adredaline was meta for so long but NoED is considered "Toxic" wanting a bug to be in the game is kind of an L take.
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Tunneling is punished by gen rushing. Not giving a free gen. It really not that hard. With in the time the killer takes to kill a single survivor you could finish probably 3-4 gens.
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uhm.. people really are not able to grasp the concept of the word ‚similar‘?
No one asked for the bug to be implemented as a feature just like that and yet still the majority of these comments act like that’s what people are asking for?!
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Ok, tell me your "similar" idea, then I tell you how to either easily avoid it, or how to abuse it...
It's not possible to create anti tunneling feature, which is not going to be useless or abusable.
Most comments have an issue with the trigger, which is dead survivor. That has nothing to do with tunneling in reality.
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I don’t have a concept for it.
And guess what, I don’t have to have one to say that some mechanic would be healthy to address the issue currently in-game.
I am pretty sure the devs could come up with a mechanic that would be better than the current way and other than the bug.
But i also agree that you and other will find something to complain about. Good thing is, it’s not about just pleasing you personally.
As for the trigger - nowhere in the op is it stated that this should be the one and only trigger.
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Well said. I don't really know why so many people are arguing over specifics in this thread.
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If there is no concept, then my opinion can be based only on original template, which is current bug and it's absolutely broken.
As for the trigger - nowhere in the op is it stated that this should be the one and only trigger.
Nowhere is stated it's going to work differently.
I have seen many anti tunneling features. All of them were useless or highly abusable.
This bug makes 3 escapes super easy. Just keep one gen 99 and get to 2 gens left. You can even let killer have best 3-gen in the world and it's useless.
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