When will the developers finally adapt “Windows of Opportunity”?
Don't get me wrong,
but if the developers want to change the meta further, they need to adapt this perk.
It's time for this perk to get a cooldown.
Change my mind
Comments
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Can't agree. Windows is a perk that closes the skill gap between mediocre survivors and good survivors. It doesn't enhance performance at the high end, it just cuts out map memorization. It's a training wheels perk, just a particularly effective one.
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It can have a cooldown when maps are reverted to not be terrible.
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Hope it gets nerfed soon. For a "training wheels" perk, it's insanely high pick rate must mean a massive portion of the playerbase for this 8 year old game are new players!
Smashing the skill gap between mediocre and good survivors isn't something desirable. It's part of what makes mmr matchmaking a nightmare for solo queue. And it further removes skill expression from the game.
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It doesn't need much of a nerf but for the sake of changing meta perks, something that BHVR has admitted they want to do, it needs something about it changed.
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How about we buff the bad perks so people will actually use them instead of nerfing good ones
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WoO doesn’t need its cooldown back when all it does is help you not run into a dead zone
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Sure, but first, add 7 more pallets to all maps
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A 30 second cooldown when you vault a window or a pallet, and drop a pallet
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As I understand it, Windows of Opportunities is a beginner-ish perk that allows less experienced Survivors to have info that lets them run tiles at an intermediate level.
There’s very little the perk can give to an expert player. It can be annoying chasing from pallet to pallet but at that point I just either commit to the chase to break pallets or disengage to hopefully catch a Survivor out of position.
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Fix the maps, tell Solo Q what pallets have been thrown and helps bad players be a little better.
If you want to stomp Solo Q more, go ahead and nerf it.
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It's high pick rate mainly shows that a large part of the player base plays soloq. Even experienced players that know how pallet/tile spawn logic works simply can't know which pallets have been used up by teammates.
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Not really arguing for a nerf, just feel like it's disingenuous to claim this perk ONLY is useful to newbies. Most pallets have multiple places they can spawn. Memorizing the map won't let you know which pallet location is currently in play. It also won't let you know which pallets have also been used by teammates. This is EXTRA helpful on indoor maps like The Game where you cant check if a pallet is used or not from afar.
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Windows is a perk that should not be changed for the exact same reason that weave should not be changed.
The perk is only good on/against bad players. Windows is not needed when you have a coordinated team that can communicate with each other. It is a solid solo queue perk when you have no way to talk to your team, but outside of that it is a wasted perk slot.
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No disingenuousness, only complete ignorance. As I say, I’m a low mmr player so my perspectives may be limited.
But you make a good point. It can help expert players at a glance when it comes to dead zones. However I will offer a counter anecdotal experience in that I have played against Survivors that I know pay attention to pallets and the deadzones. I’ve played Survivors that don’t run WoO but for sure keep track of what pallets they have and haven’t seen.
I tried to say that experts get “very little” but I see it still came off as ONLY. Again, it’s just my ignorance. Thanks for keeping me sharp. Hope you have fun matches @LordGlint
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fine… if it’s time to change Corrupt Intervention and give that a cool down too. I see it way more than WOO.
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Having a perk that shows where every available resource is at all times leads to the devs removing resources. Hence, map reworks like Haddonfield with deadzones everywhere. I would prefer maps with more resources but an expectation that survivors need to pay close attention and use actual knowledge and game sense to identify where the resources are. You know, actual skill expression? Rather than "beep boop follow Google Maps to next yellow thing".
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Keeping track of used pallets is fairly easy on open maps like blood lodge. Maps like The Game however results in many cases of turning the corner and only finding splinters on the ground. Doesn't help that there's very few window vaults which would be permanent tools to use. That's one reason that I use Blindness addons on killers like Freddy who have them.
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Awesome. Everything you’re saying makes sense.
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The thing is. If the developers don't change WoO, it will stay in first place forever, and that can't be in anyone's interest.
Sorry
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It would make it pointless so : no.
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I can respect this sentiment. You don’t have to apologize just because some people disagree with you. Your feelings and opinions on the game are just as valid as any of ours.
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woo does not make you any better at the game, you just know where resources are but it's irrelevant if your game sense is lacking and you aimlessly drop pallets to prolong your down
if you are a bad player, you'll just waste resources for the rest of us
if you're good, you're probably using it just to know what resources the other 3 randoms have wasted. Nothing worse than being in a chase and going to a tile just to find out there is no pallet there
I use it in solo q, I drop it when playing with my friends because we just call out what has been dropped
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could just as likely mean that majority of the players play solo and find this perk useful
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Of course it needs a nerf. For yesterday. But everytime someone brings the topic up, people say:
- It is a perk for new players, even if it is behind a DLC survivor and most people who just started playing the game would not even know the perk exists.
- It is not useful when you learn the maps, but you will see it mainly when you reach high MMR. There are a lot of people who still don't know the maps after hundreds of hours, apparently.
- You still need to know how to loop, even if most people who use WoO would just simply press W and go from pallet to pallet.
- Won't somebody please think of the SoloQ survivors!!!???... even if most SWF would mostly only inform of killer shack and most people would still use it even in a group.
- It is not that strong and not that many people use it, even if it has a 35.49% use in Nightlight (the most used survivor perk right now), and you see at least 3 per match most of the time.
Taking in count this and the cries when they just changed the description by accident, I don't see BHVR nerfing it.
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Having people constantly complain about too many pallets leads to devs reworking maps to be deadzones. Blaming a single perk is ridiculous.
Nerfing WoO does nothing except hurt Solo Q players. SWF's can already communicate where resources are and what has been used. Solo Q can't, hence WoO's popularity. Taking it away ONLY hurts them.
No amount of game sense or understanding spawns is going to tell you that Meg already dropped this pallet 5 minutes ago.
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I've played in swf many times and none of us ever called out pallets we used other than sometimes shack. I think you're radically overestimating the level of call outs among most swfs.
It's not difficult to be aware of the areas chases are taking place and assuming some resources have been used there. Other perks could help with this if needed.
Almost every discussion I've read in the past regarding Windows contains several posts demanding that rather than nerf the perk, "maps are the problem".
So again, we're seeing the solution to complete knowledge of available map resources being the removal of map resources. A horrible choice imo that wrecks skill expression, game sense, and fun from both sides.
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i'd much rather exaustion perks having separate cooldowns. Like lower cooldown on overcome and dramaturgy but longer cooldowns on lithe and sprint burst to close the gap between their strenghts
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It's annoying when a bad player can loop you kinda long, because he is using Windows & Lithe together. That's all what I wanted to say.
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Make it a basekit, another training wheels we love
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No, WoO is a perfectly fine perk and it's one of the few perks that I think is genuinely okay to be meta. This perk highlights bad map design and closes the gap between mediocre and good survivors without actually making them stronger and they sacrifice an entire perk slot to get this effect. There are a lot of genuinely overpowered things in the game to complain about, this perk is not one of them.
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For low tier skilled killer players I can maybe somewhat understand why a nerf to WoO might be "necessary" but other than that it's such a non-issue imo.
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need to pay close attention and use actual knowledge and game sense to identify where the resources are
Oh, you mean like having to keep track of which hooks have been used to sacrifice a survivor and are no longer available?
Like, that game sense and knowledge?
Cause in light of recent changes, this almost sounds like you're advocating for WoO to be base kit.
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This is the best thing I've read in a long time. Thank you so much for this <3
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No. Just buff weaker perks. Tired of nerfing the meta, just make other perks also viable so we get a broader meta.
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Windows is used way too much. One of the main reasons BHVR gave for nerfing Hex: Ruin was that it was used in too many matches and was tough to counter for newer players.
By that logic, Windows should be nerfed as well. I don't really see it as a problem. I do see it in numerous matches. To the point where I have a sound clip in my stream that gets played when there is no WoO in the game.
I think they need to buff other perks as well. There will always be a meta. Just give us more options.
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I don't think it needs a nerf. if survivors want to run WoO its a perk slot not being used by some other meta perk. What I am more worried about is they change this perk a lot and then add some sort of WoO as a basekit feature for survivors as we all know the devs love to add basekit things that should be perks on both survivor and killer sides.
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With the recent map changes, WoO is a must run, otherwise everyone would be running into a deadzone because the developers can't stop messing with the maps, the perk can remain the way it is.
Nerf it if you want to also ruin solo queue, great idea.
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I wasn't in favor of hooks respawning.
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The developers can nerf WoO and give it a cooldown (it had a cooldown) but this won't change the usage of the perk. It's like Adrenaline and PainRes: When these perks got nerfed, everybody was like "now it's useless" or "they are fine and we need them" but they are still one of the best perks in the game and many players use them despite the nerf. Same will happen to WoO. It won't bring a metagame change. Beyond that, just nerfing one Perk won't change the metagame. To make a metagame change happen, the developers need to buff and nerf many other perks (in the right direction). Of cause, some players don't like it when "their" perk gets nerfed but this happens everytime.
WoO is an easy to use Perk: If players want to know where and when their teammate used pallets then they could use Alert or Any Means Necessary but these Perks requiere attention and you have to keep in mind which Pallet got dropped/destroied. WoO is simple and easy to use. However, this does not make the Perk super strong. It is just helpful for every player - for beginners, experience but also for veterans. I also feel like some players overreact a bit and abuse the mistake the developers did with Haddonfield. The developers did a good job with the Red Forest maps and even changed Ormond to remove the deadzones for survivors. Their latest maps are also much better then their older ones. Of cause not every map is perfect and could get some adjustments (Greenville) but it is nearly impossible to make every map both overall balance for survivors and every killer but also unique. Thus, I have to admit that I don't like the variants of Ormond and Yamako and they are rather questionable than good. I also feel like the map RNG should be more reliable and should have a better spawn logic like some other maps have.
Nevertheless, the question could be where we draw the line between "the Perk is helpful" and "We rely on this Perk":
I remember when the Chaos Shuffle Modifier was playable and some survivors looked so lost and the reason was that these players rather rely on WoO and had no clue what they should do without the Perk - sometimes they had a pallet right next to them and they didn't saw it, they just ran past. So maybe adding a cooldown could be helpful to teach survivors more awareness of their environment. Something like "after vaulting a window or pallet or after dropping a pallet the perk goes on cooldown for 20/30sec" but at the same time increasing the range to like 40 or 48 meters. With this, the perk would be still helpful but requieres some awareness of the survivor → the survivor has to plan their chase and where to go next when leaving the tile/loop. At the same time could also be to buff/rework Alert and Any Means Necessary like "When a Pallet gets destroied you see the aura of every Pallet and Window around you for the next 30seconds but no longer the aura of the killer" (Alert) and "Once a survivor drops a Pallet, you can see the aura of every Pallet and Window around you for the next 30sec" (AMN, wouldn't remove the liftup part). This could also help the survivors alot.
However, in the end I don't really care too much about it because I don't have any problems with this Perk and there are other Perks the developers should nerf/rework. WoO has a rather low priority - in my opinion - because it does not make the metagame unhealthy.
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It cant. We already had this nonsense.
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It had an alright use rate even back then iirc. Even if it had a cooldown it'd still be better than before, as the range was increased as well.
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It was basically non-existent while it had a cooldown.
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But that contradicts itself. If someone is using lithe, they are probably running away from a loop, and bringing windows does not make someone good at looping. You can see all the pallets you want, but it's not going to matter if you don't know how to run them
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It was about 5%-ish, according to Nightlight.
Not super common, but not non-existent either. Perks like Flashbang, Quick and Quiet, Hope and Background Player are around those margins currently.
I'm not sure if it'd even go back to those levels either. It was super underrated at the time, people didn't realise how good it actually was even after it got buffed, with the use rate taking a little while to climb.
I think people would still use it in the event of a nerf. Whether it needs it or not, I'm personally not sure. I don't like how it's a complete substitute for map knowledge and can act as an autopilot at times, but I wouldn't personally consider it overpowered. It's for sure a crutch, though.
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So a pallet every 5 feet.
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No. It lets you plan your looping route instead of hoping that a pallet or window spawned in the right spot this time, or that your teammate didn't already throw a pallet down and break it. Nerfing it will only weaken solo.
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Then nerf Zeshin tactics to. Don't be biased it's literally the same damn thing. Only one side uses it more
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I only want WoO nerfed because I refuse to run it in its current state. I'm in a minority, so I doubt it will happen, but personally...
WoO causes bad habits in your play, actively hinders your ability to learn and makes you overall worse at the game. People become way too reliant on it and become absolute lambs the moment they are hit with blind.
If it had a cooldown it would mean you would need to remember the spots that you saw, and that would actively help you learn maps and actually improve your game to the point you can operate without it.
You would eventually be sble to drop the perk, or only use it to determine what tiles have spawned/been used up, rather than being the switch your brain off and follow the yellow lights perk it is now.
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I doubt they will nerf it as it is a godsend for new players who will struggle with this game otherwise.
Experienced players who are going to give you a tough time rarely use the perk, as we know the maps well enough and have enough situational awareness to get better value from other perks.
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