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Weave Attunement is the Boon situation all over again
I was reading another post about how broken Weave Attunement is, and I realized the argument of "Yeah it's easy to counter on paper, to drop the item to the other side of the map, but playing item baby sitter for the rest of your team isn't fun or effective." Is how I will summarize it.
But for killer mains (I'm one too, but I've yet to bother trying to use Weave Attunement), it's just so simple. It's too simple for us to bother to understand you.
Then I realized, this is the Killer equivalent of Boon totems. Survivors thought they were fine, they said "Just snuff it."
My conclusion here is that, both sides are not so different from the other when it comes to our reactions to similar situations. It's practically identical, if anything. No matter how much division there is for which side we play, on average, the average person is bound to be about the same.
Also it means Weave Attunement needs a nerf since it deserves the same treatment as Boons. Just count yourself lucky if you don't have to wait as long as Killers had to wait for the Boon nerf.
And the moral of the story is:
We are all a bunch of hypocrites apparently.
Comments
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This is one of the most insightfull comments I'v read on a dbd forum. I will say as a survivor main Id be fine with them not nerfing Weave Attunement as long as they restore Circle of Healing to it's former glory.
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don't bring items. perk does nothing if there is no items. if you do bring an item, there is counter to it. The other aspect to talk about is that aura reading is not end of the world for you as survivor. it gives information but by no means is that game-winning by itself. Sometimes the aura being revealed may not impact the outcome of the match.
that is very different from where circle of healing was where there was no counter to it. the value it gave always hurt killer because extra health-states is good in 90% of situations for survivor minus extreme cases like exposed and it had very strong perk efficiency. 1/16 perks vs 50% of killer load out.
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Just show aura of item that reveals you. Power of the perk is not that much lower and counterplay is same, but easier.
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I don't think they are the same.
Boons made some killers unviable - Hag and Twins pickrate have been bottom low since the advent of Circle of Healing -, only used one perk slot in a 16 perk slot total and couldn't be snuff out forever: if you snuff a boon and a survivor put another one, everything starts again. Survivors could just erase the killer pressure in a matter of seconds, specially when boons where put near already done gens or corners of the map. Its was a war of attrition the killer was meant to lose at the end.
Weave attunement is a bad perk bad itself, requiring the use of Franklin's Demise to be effective - so put 50% of your loadout to get its effect. Although it has a strong effect, it can be easily countered by collecting and dropping items in the corner of the map, without too much the killer can do if he/she is away. The effect is clearly shown to you when you are inside the radious - which didn't happen with boons. Also if someone is using object of obsession you can see the killer for the entire match - with nothing in killer's power to stop that.
I've faced this combo and didn't had issues with it, as i used sometime ago it and was countered perfectly by survivors - i had almost no value from this perk combo with items in corners. The real problem with Weave Attunement is bad coordination, which happens mostly in SoloQ or when people play in duos/trio with randoms.
To me, the only change they should do is that the aura of the item in the ground is shown to you when you are inside the range of Weave Attunement. This would help in situations where sloppy teammates just leave items in the middle of a loop or anywhere important, so anyone can catch it and take it to a corner of the map.
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I don't think Weave Attunement is anywhere near as broken as Circle of Healing was, and that's reflected in the use rate.
Peak Circle was in basically every single game, Weave Attunement is actually pretty rare to see, all things considered.
This. They just need to make it a bit easier to counter.
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My issue is that Killers can see items in lobby and switch to Weave Attunement if they want.
This is bad design.
Imagine survivors seeing the killer's add ons in lobby and then bring perks to counter them.
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I don't think playing item porter is ideal gameplay and you got another thing coming if you think I'll be the one being delivery boy to map corners. Pinhead's box demonstrates how bad it can be if no one wants to be the one handling things and that aura is shown as well.
With boons I think the other part of the problem was survivors going to dead zones out of the way for killer to deal with. Killers would dedicate a huge amount of time to snuff something that could be brought back moments later. Then survivors were retreating to those areas to heal…again being a time sink for killers.
So yeah. It's just the kind of gameplay those perks create which isn't fun for anyone.
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items and add ons are 2 different things completely I wouldn’t compare a map to Weskers egg.
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While this is effect counterplay, it does rely on everyone doing it without communicating. Plus I think its bad design that not bringing items is the most effective (not only) strategy. Just feels like less variety :(
I agree that weave is basically the dead mands switch effect; fair on its own but a meta combo demon. Not that weave-franklins is og pain res+dms levels bad, but its certainly more annoying.3 -
it doesn't require everyone to counter it. you don't need all 4 items in corner for this perk to be bad. even 2/4 greatly diminishes effectiveness of weave. some items being left on the floor in sem-ideal spots is ok because like i said, information isn't the end of the world. it can make you lose but you can also get aura read in places where it has low meaning. the big thing is preventing it from gaining value in high traffics area where people constantly pass through.
i don't see the perk as needing any changes. in retrospect, circle of healing had more potencial urgency in being too strong than this perk. if this perk was more like, whenever your near an item, you get exposed when near an item with 30 seconds linger, than maybe this perk would in same category as old COH but right now it is just an ok effect that is relatively easy to mitigate.
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I played around 20 games last night and didn't see it once.
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There is no valid reason why killers should be able to see items. Hopefully they come for this after they get rid of prestiges.
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While we agree they're not so different, the few differences they do have is where it counts. Both are under the survivors power (Weave only works if survivors bring items or open boxes while boons just needed to be blessed on a totem). Survivors could rebless the totems practically forever while the single killer needs to repeatedly snuff them to deny the effect. Meanwhile the counter to weave (throwing the items in a corner) needs only done once per item among 4 survivors (killers can't move items unless its attached to a living survivor).
We are all a bunch of hypocrites apparently.
We take offence, we're A holes, not hypocrites thank you very much :p
….at the press of a button (multiple at that) survivors can switch their entire loadout in a second. Does it matter that the killer can see you swapped everything at the last second?
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Killer cannot be changed once started looking for a match. 4 survs can change everything anytime. Yes, killer should be able to see survs items unless everything (killer, perks, items, add-ons) are preselect and cannot be changed. Then either killer should be also shown to survs, or nothing is shown to anyone.
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I don't think they are really that similiar, because Weave Attunement requires 2 perks to even be remotely usable where CoH was usable by itself and affected the entire team of survivors.
The aura reading range is not that big outside of certain maps with multiple floor levels so unless someone is farming items from chests, you only have to worry about weave attunement in certain spots. Your aura being shown doesn't do much if the killer is preoccupied in chase and if the killer is constantly dropping chase to go after auras, they will ultimately lose by not turning any chase into downs.
Really Weave Attunement is just annoying, but more so because it's dependent on Franklin's rather than anything about the perk itself. CoH was simply game warping and it completely killed a viable playstyle in spreading damage and to some extent is partially to blame for killers resorting to tunneling as much as they do.
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Map is an offering. Not an item.
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I do not think Weave Attunement is broken but I would agree it's maybe slightly overtuned for what it does. I think all it really needs is to show the aura of the item the Survivor just dropped, or maybe to nerf its effective range to "when Survivor is within 8 meters of the item".
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My argument was not that it is as broken as CoH, but that fundamentally the way we show our frustrations towards it.
No one wants to take a detour from A to B on their way to C, just because someone brought a perk.
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Everyone says "jus bring ur items to the corner" but i had a round where a skull merchant, on vecnas map, brought weave and franklins. Used it + her drones to make a damn gauntlet on the lower floor so that absolutely noone can go save someone from the downstairs hook or do a generator on the bottom floor without her seeing them through the walls from the steps all the way to the hook. I brought the 2 items i could find to a corner. It did not help one bit. Nothing we could do.
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I must say, as someone who likes both sides, and plays them pretty equally, that I can't relate to the hypocrisy of many dbd players. Simply put, being a killer or a survivor main makes one highly biased, so their input on balance shouldn't be taken too seriously most of the time. That said, I respect the willingness to look beyond your biases.
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theres a whole aboveground section with plenty of gens, just dont go downstairs :/
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Personally I'd rather them nerf Weave than go back to the CoH meta. And I don't even think Weave is that bad, just easy to misplay against.
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Did all the ones upstairs you NEED one from downstairs to escape
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that merchant is diabolical
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I read this in the Pinhead voice because of your profile pic.
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