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Trickster
He needs to be 4.4 like the other ranged killers.
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And why? He needs to hit 8 knifes and he's still bad even with 4.6, there's literally no reason to make him 4.4 xD
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Trickster doesn't need to be 4.4, he needs to be retooled from the ground up. BHVR has never chosen a direction to take him so he's always just Easier, Less Interactive Huntress. And Huntress is already easy and uninteractive.
Making him slower doesn't make him less mind numbing, just a little weaker.
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Yes, and maybe make it take 6 blades to injure instead of 8. And perhaps they could lower his throwrate, but make it ramp up over time? And of course, if he only needs 6 blades to injure, he should get main event after 30 blades, not 8. Also, if he's gonna be 4.4, he should have 24m terror radius, not 32.
If we changed all that, then he would be perfect.
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Thyas literally just a complete revert of all his most recent changes. Main event after 30 knives is awful.
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They should revert the rework and buff the old trickster version like most people who played him wanted it.
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Tell me you dont understand Trickster without telling me...
Tricksters biggest weakness with his power is that he is slow and easily loopable around high objects.
By making him 4.4 you would have to buff his movement speed while holding knifes a lot otherwise he would be total trash. He is allready not good and you just ask for one of the biggest nerfs on any killer you can ask, their core movement speed.
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I’m still of the opinion that trickster is worse huntress but K-pop version.
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Trickster was stronger before the rework with 4,4m/s
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I know lol. Just a joke. Wanna know what I'd actually do?
Make it 7 blades to injure. Keep his throwrate the same as now, but rework Memento to no longer have throwrate bonus, as he is too reliant on it and it is hard to balance him with this addon around. Honestly, his throwrate may need to be lower, higher, with or without rampup, I don't know, but I feel that 7 blades to down is a good compromise if he gets to keep 115% speed, which I think he deserves.
Remove his lullaby, and make it 14 blades for main event. Now he's not getting main event every single chase, but still way more frequently than before. Also, make Main Event progress begin to decay after 15 seconds, just like his laceration does, so it's harder to use main event for camping.
I wanna see Trickster tweaks. I love playing him and all, but honestly, 8 blades to down is unfun for trickster, but 8 blades for main event is unfun for survivor, and the lullaby pretty much kills any stealth build, and makes survivors prerun super early, which is just boring.
Trickster could be a lot more enjoyable to play both as and against I think, while being slightly stronger, and it wouldn't even take that many tweaks.
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As someone with over 2000 hrs in Trickster I agree, 4.6 just isn't working out. Not just that but 8 knives to hit Main Event and 8 knives to injure also feels terrible! The cat and mouse of this character feels destroyed and I can't deny the fact that he was so much more fun to play as and against before. The ammo system is destroyed, his lullaby doesn't work correctly, his wink is bugged, his arms desync, his voice lines are bugged, his addon variety is absolutely annihilated. Hopefully something gets done about it soon, I love Trickster and want to see him return to his former glory. This current iteration feels like a bad breakup, its genuinely so saddening.
-Rev 😘
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Even if they really wanted him to be 4.6, I think Knife ramp-up needs to come back, Main Event needs to be less frequently acquired, he needs 6 knives to injure again and his terror radius needs to be reduced again. Trickster's lullaby already serves as a great radar for where he is in the Trial, and it adjusts based on how close you are to his terror radius, this portion of the lullaby just doesn't work right now because his terror radius is 32m and the visual lullaby appears at 38!
Not to mention the combo system is a disaster at the moment, his old voice lines that were combo based on throws don't function properly, his lobby wink is fully bugged and has been forever now, ugh its just so miserable.
-Rev 😘0 -
You mean like Plague? Artist? Unknown?
2/3 of those need to hit you twice. He needs to hit you 8 times.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but when you claim something like "X need Y," it should have an argument attached.
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yeah they didn't buff his throwing movement speed. they just buffed his m/s. he's fine where he is at. he could be little better like 7 knives to injure as many trickster feel that 8 knives is a bit too much but at this rate, i am just wanting them to fix his animation for memento blades. nothing else. bug fixes shouldn't be taking 1 year…..
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Definitely miss 6 knives to injure and trying to hit every single shot instead of this 'spray and pray' stuff.
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They actually did buff his movement speed while throwing!
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they removed his penalty build-up thing which i don't really understand why he had that. i remember when he was first released in the ptb, his throwing m/s was like 66% movement speed → 33% the more you threw. i still remember playing trickster in the ptb with this. my play-time on that ptb with trickster has never made me feel so weak as a killer. when he was released, he was my worst-win rate killer. i think i was winning 4/10 matches and this was before MMR existed.
that was really something. after that like few weeks, they buffed his throwing m/s to 96-92% from that awful 66%-33%, made his main event have 0.5 second wind-up instead of 3 seconds, increase his main event timer to 30 second from like 10 seconds and they made his wind-up shorter… i believe it 0.65 or 0.75 to 0.5 seconds. i think he also had 10 second of laceration in his original version. either way, that was an interesting killer experience.
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he had 20 seconds of laceration! and also didn't fire accurately!
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I just want his nerfs addressed, Main Event is so boring and it is sledgehammered into the kit and feels like there's no risk and reward was heavily hampered to make way for it. Ramping was essential to the immersive experience, 24m made the 40m lullaby (with unique function to actually tell you how close you were to the terror radius) actually immersive against Trickster and because main event is so prevalent it doesn't feel like an ultimate ability.
His performative flare and immersive voicelines are annihilated, all so that people who didn't want to try to learn the killer could get 80% of the reward for 0% of the effort. By the way all of the Trickster's who have invested hundreds and thousands of hours have expressed frustration that their killer whom the community deemed mid B to high C tier got nerfed in the elements that actually had application at high level play, and so that Trickster could further stomp players at the lower end who he already had no issues destroying!
I'm on board with recoil going away or being an optional feature for people who enjoyed the immersive qualities that it held, but ranged killers should not also run at m1 killer movement speed, especially not at the cost of aesthetic, the long-term health of the character, and the survivor's enjoyment. I've gone on about this for 9+ months and its painful that Trickster as I knew him is just not a character anymore. Glad the people who played him casually can 4k people who aren't exhibiting proper counter-play, but this rework was a complete betrayal of the performative ranged Huntress equivalent that I fell in love with.
Losing playstyle options for an already extremely limited sniper character selection (Huntress, Unknown, Slinger) is a shame and it's no wonder why so many people play Huntress, she's always been the penultimate best ranged killer and they did well at amplifying her ranged elements instead of neutering them in place of "not using your power on most tiles"-Rev 😘
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P.S. I also hate going against Trickster now, every single one of them tunnels and camps. I'd rather sit in a 10 minute DC penalty than play against this soulless version of the character I feel in love with 3 years ago.
-Rev 😘
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Here's an addon shift writeup that i put together to explain exactly what the rework caused. Not only do I disagree with the direction of a 4.6 Trickster, but his addons have not been in a more useless state.
-Rev 😘
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Btw i've also spoken with all of the top 10 playtime Tricksters on steam records, ALL OF THEM agree that this version of Trickster is more boring than his previous incarnation. That means this rework was a mistake, there was a big tear away from Trickster's roots here and its also saddening to exist in a community where I have to see long time friends struggling whom I met from playing Trickster and building a community that enjoys him and lives for his aesthetic and mechanical prowess.
He's just not Trickster anymore, what a shame…-Rev 😘
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his only real nerf is 8 →6 laceration. His original 4.4 m/s version was 8 lacerations. So at least comparing his first PTB iteration to this version, he is much better. Given his better fire-rate, He probably doesn't need to go from 8→6. Probably just going from 8→7 would be sufficient. At the same time, i don't think he mandatory needs it but it would be nice QOL change. My original alternative suggestion was just adding back his Melodious murder add-on to decrease max laceration from 8→7. His base m/s is fine change for what it was trying achieve.
Just minor bug fixes and maybe single QOL change is all that is needed.
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We've seen 6 knife Trickster, as previously stated was NOT an issue and classified as high C low B tier by most of the community, ramping is a QoL feeling fix, 6 knife allows for tapfiring playstyles to exist. As i've previously stated, Yumi's murder was in the game previously, you're suggesting Trickster have another equivalent of Map of the Realm instead of fixing the core issue plaguing his addons balance (the high laceration meter) Memento blades is also an addon that is mandatory, and I don't like how many options keep feeling like they only benefit the spam playstyle when its clearly the most supported style already.
He doesn't need regular mode AND Main Event to both be rapid fire, and asking for more rapid fire only puts the Trickster players that are crying out for solutions more into their grave. Skill expression needs to make a return, otherwise this character is always going to be garbage in high level play as making it good without any limiters would result in modern day Skull Merchant levels of non-interactive looping.Just to clarify again, we have tried an addon like Yumi's Murder and Memento Blades, the design becomes opting in to winning. You should never have to opt in to raw power efficiency that makes you stronger across the board, its just a lazy way of designing addons like:
- Map of the Realm
- Mother Daughter Ring
- Barbs Glasses
- J. Myers Memorial
- Windstorm
All of these addons are straight up efficiency increasing and to some degree all of these addons were rolled into base-kit of the characters or likely will be eventually if they haven't been yet, why would we ever turn back the clock on mandatory addon design being reduced just to get a design that worked before? I'm perplexed as to what limiting player choice does for the games health or player enjoyment.
P.S. comparing current Trickster to OG 3 years ago Trickster is a curveball that I don't understand what its relevance is, yeah its better than the unplayable existence of OG Trickster which was fully inaccurate and was this Trickster but worse, so?
-Rev 😘
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by most of the community, ramping is a QoL feeling fix, 6 knife allows for tapfiring playstyles to exist.
His tap-fire still exists. the functionality has not been removed. the only thing that has changed is number of hits for tap-fire to injure a health-state. in fact, tap-firing is still my most prefered way to deal with wall-blockers. that is why changing his m/s would be bad change.
you're suggesting Trickster have another equivalent of Map of the Realm instead of fixing the core issue plaguing his addons balance (the high laceration meter) Memento blades is also an addon that is mandatory, and I don't like how many options keep feeling like they only benefit the spam playstyle when its clearly the most supported style already.
these add-on feel mandatory because his base-kit throwing is weaker than other throwing modes. this was always true in all the old iterations of trickster and remains to be true in this version of him. He is only better other ranged killers when he has main event active. That is sort of his niche strength. it is way to balance him as a character such that he is not strictly always better in every situation to other ranged options but he has moment in time where he is the best at what he does.
He doesn't need regular mode AND Main Event to both be rapid fire,
His regular mode isn't rapid fire to begin with. Whether he rapids fire or doesn't rapid fire is entirely based off where the survivor is. It is based off what happening in the game.
Skill expression needs to make a return, otherwise this character is always going to be garbage in high level play as making it good without any limiters would result in modern day Skull Merchant levels of non-interactive looping.
He already has skill expression. He has to hit 16x more often then any of other two range killers. track aim is a skill.
All of these addons are straight up efficiency increasing and to some degree all of these addons were rolled into base-kit of the characters or likely will be eventually if they haven't been yet, why would we ever turn back the clock on mandatory addon design being reduced just to get a design that worked before?
I mean pig got her ambush buffed but her ambush still feels like it needs workshop grease to be effective. not every killer just goes to solid base-kit immediately. Trickster is no different in that regard.
comparing current Trickster to OG 3 years ago Trickster is a curveball that I don't understand what its relevance is
It is not curveball. it is explanation of his current state of the game being better than before. bug fix and maybe one change could make him solid but it could also get survivor to complain about him which many people already have natural dislike to his gameplay loop on survivor side.
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Injecting counter-play is important for the survivor experience in a way that doesn't degrade the feeling of Trickster, giving Trickster more move-speed than he already had only makes the .2 second windup of his knives even more agonizing to fight. You cannot simply remove lethality in place of higher speed with a ranged killer - in the case of Trickster it has significantly reduced his capability to deal damage at range against mispositioned survivors. The current Trickster is much better at:
- Tunneling
- Slugging
- Camping
These are all unfun aspects, and have been amplified in frustration quality due to a few systems being diminished:
- Survivor distance acquisition
- Ammo system (Main Event save an absurd amount of ammo)
- Ability to swap tiles against Trickster if he messes up (he just aims the laser pointer main event at your escape angles)
- Survivor ability to determine where Trickster can be (Lullaby's layered accompaniment with the TR is irrelevant now due to 32m TR)
Trickster was much stronger at 4.4m/s without having to utilize these tactics, which put a damper on his enjoyment levels on the survivor side, but there isn't any acknowledgement that 1 health state Main Event makes these situations far far more aggravating to fight as Trickster can create a Main Event out of thin air whenever you decide to go for these altruistic plays in his presence. Previously you could take the opportunity when he went to reload or try to get the unhooked survivor to a safer area while pressuring gens, now Trickster can kill both the unhooking survivor and the unhooked survivor without losing a single knife of ammunition and the acquisition speed no longer has a window of opportunity. Main Event is cannibalizing counter-play and playing without it is not an option (no tap-firing is not still alive, you HAVE to Main Event or you lose the game because the ammo system wasn't build around not utilizing it)
I don't get the impression these points are landing though, 4.4m/s 6 knife Trickster with 30 knife main event was simply better at all of the things that the rework was attempting to achieve and gave playstyle choice variety that rewarded proper zoning, counter-play, and had built in anti-tunnel in the form of the 4.4 m/s move-speed. Addon diversity was incredible and the base-kit was really solid without addons.
-Rev 😘
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