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There is now no incentive to p100 a survivor
Comments
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There is also punishing lobby shopping. After you leave x amount of lobbies you get a cooldown. That woyld discourage a major amount of people to shop for a lobby. ( i made it x amount because i know that sometimes your friends shows up and all that jazz)
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I am pretty sure you can read again to understand my point of view that i made absolutely clear multiple times. And once again i am going to repeat it wont be on both side if all killers dont see no prestige aside from egc. What's so hard to understand about this? Doing so reduce their "lobby shopping" on the killer side of things which is 50% of the issue(since we dont have any data aside from a dev claim not backed by anything but their words)the lobby shopping will continue as there's more to it than just seeing low prestiges and dodging. They ran a/b tests but where are the a/b/c test? A/b test i'm assuming(correct me if I am wrong) is either all or none but no inbetween has been tested.
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Or BHVR could just show MMR on the end game screen, and that’s it. Most PvP games show MMR to all players, and it’s completely fine.
There is often so much drama on these forums, that “showing MMR might cause drama” isn’t really an argument.
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We got to accept that this game is a PVP GAME and it has PVP issues that needs addressing. I believe competitveness for this game is healthy to a degree. Prestiges are clearly not the culprit of this issue as much as the majority believe it to be. Exploring different options are indeed what this game needs to do and dumbing the competitiveness of it made the survivor side of thing a lot less appealing to the mass and has been proven multiple times if you look at the playerbase.
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Just for an example of it would be OG DH… I know ALOT of survivor mains that quit because of this singular change(I am not an advocate for old dead hard). Just reverting this perk to it's former glory would bring back a TON of survivor mains
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We're late to the party but here's our two cents
They can't make hiding prestige optional. If someone hides it, the others assume (killers or other survivors) and dodge. It'd be like not hiding it at all. Making it that only killers can't see does not stop survivors from dodging people who they perceive as bad due to prestige.
Having a punishment for leaving the lobby doesn't undo the damage it does when it happens as the matchmaking gets screwed and tried to make a match asap. It wouldn't be as accurate since it prioritizes time over quality, and the overwhelming majority want time. And lastly, why implement a punishment when simply hiding prestige bypasses this issue (lobby dodge) just as well if not better (a good amount probably won't care about a small penalty)?
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What I mean is I just don't understand your mindset of having to show off a arbitrary number that 90% of the community cares nothing about. Even if you just want to show off to your friends you can do this without the option you want. You can take a picture and share it with your friends, you can stream on discord or on twitch and ect. The only reason I can think of why you care so much about about your prestige level is to show off the strangers which those strangers won't care about a number that means nothing. Even then you can still achieve your goal of showing your level in the endgame screen since it still there for killer and survivors who wants to see it. At the end of the day I still think devs will never back down from this choice and I think they shouldn't bc prestige levels have only caused more lobby dodging. We just have to agree to disagree.
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Others assume is the very reason people dodge in the first place so this argument doesn't stand on that matter, they mentionned it was good when it was both so keeping this way of lobby for killer wouldn't change anything as of what is going on right now
I agree with you punishment is not a good one but still an option and also would go up in time if you keep on doing this. I doesn't bypass the issue, the issue is within something deeper than just a badge in a lobby screen.
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I care about it and others like me does. as stated previously it's not about a badge it's what it means for the people getting in a lobby with 2k hours getting matched with 20-50hrs players. many other games have prestiges and it would never do what this game does to their system of prestiges to band-aid a mmr that isn't working efficiently as of now.
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Hiding it removes that assumption though. Now all they have to guess with is costumes which all but the most paranoid wouldn't do. Most likely anyway. Assuming we're following correctly (your going with only the killer can't see prestige right?) it would not solve the problem of survivors dodging the lobby.
Yet as we're aware there are some people who would not care and the damage has been done. Cold comfort at best. Your correct in that the issue is deeper, it's the players themselves wanting a "perfect match" (exaggerating but you probably get the point). How you'd fix that is beyond us.
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on the first paragraph the assumption part is the very root within, since now there's no substantial manners for these lobby shoppers to shop as easily, those who cares enough to shop in the first place will use the now even more ridiculous reasons(anon mode, default skins, globes, names) even more than they used to.
On the second paragraph I am a 100% with you. nothing we can do but voice ourselves. Which is why I am here in this forum thread. I want to be heard because I feel like I am collateral to this whole thing and it sucks.
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That's not exactly shopping though (by the usual definition we understand), that's just effectively random leaving. There's nothing to base off of now (bar bloody clothes and if we stretch it charms) which is what "shopping" entails no?
While we're somewhat sorry you feel like collateral (nothing personal but this week has caused our empathy to dry rapidly) this is an all or nothing deal. While we're technically pro hiding (technically as we 3 don't care but see hiding prestige as better), we do say this part as unbiased as we can: hiding prestige harms nothing except egos.
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So the truth is coming out. It actually has nothing to do about showing off the love for your character but to lobby shop. You don't want to be paired with lower hour survivors than yourself and you want to use someone prestige to skip lobbies. So you basically admitting what Mandy told you that showing one prestige at the beginning of a match leads to lobby dodging on both sides. Btw the reason mmr gets messed up alot of times is because you dodging lobbies. When you dodge a lobby (survivor or killer) you keeping that lobby open longer meaning the the mmr system in turn is widening the search, putting lower mmr players in lobbies they have no reason being in. Ppl who dodge lobbies are apart of the mmr problem DBD has.
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removing features from the game isn't about ego really, it's about people working together towards a goal and being able to monitor your friends progress without needing external means to do so. Ego in a PVP game is not a bad thing to an extend, especially when it's meaningless in terms of skill. We need to understand that it's a badge and letting showing off their dedication to whoever they want is a goal in itself that many PVP GAMES encourage.
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I agree, what's the point of getting anything over p3 unless you run out of items at this point
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I never thought it was an issue before mandy mentionned it and I clearly(again you didn't read previous comments before posting this) posted that I do not condone lobby shopping. you're assuming things for some unknown reason.
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Well now here's the thing: convince vs thing that can (and does according to the test bhvr ran) help the game. Since you can already track progress, either external with friends or on the end screen for randoms, we'd rather stick with what helps the game overall. It really REALLY feels like an ego thing, but hey, maybe you can prove us wrong.
We agree some ego isn't bad, it's just what that ego causes the players to do is where our problem lies. This showing off badges is causing people to leave lobbies (fact as was tested and we sincerely doubt the devs would bother making a conspiracy) which then screws the matchmaking, which then causes the complaints about unfair matches and all the things that go with it.
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I have zero p100s. I am just trying to find a middle ground where everyone is happy with the lobby changes. Including the other side of the medal. I posted various solution ideas and yet here we are again.
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Fair enough, but sadly this is as we've said, it's an all or nothing deal. Either show it or hide it, but optional doesn't work in this scenario.
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that's your opinion on the matter and I respect it. it doesn't have to be either black or white is mine. there's a solution out there for all to be happy with. I am just trying to talk with the community to find it.
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I really do not see what they could possibly be doing with MMR that is so controversial, it's just a number used to matchmake…
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You know how the official stats don't use games that have a DC? What if games that have a DC are considered invalid for MMR, and the other players don't gain or lose MMR in those games? If that is true, and that knowledge becomes public, then if someone DCs in a game, it might cause the other players to feel like the game is worthless, and they would be more likely to ragequit as well.
It's stuff like that, where people would get upset if the MMR formula doesn't match what they personally feel should be MMR gains or losses.
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But I don't see how DCs actually affect matchmaking aside from lobby dodging. Don't you neither gain nor lose it if you DC or are DCed?
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My example is about what happens to everyone else in the match if a survivor DCs. If a survivor DCing invalidates the match, and causes the 4 other players to be unable to gain or lose MMR that game, then the other 4 players might want to DC if they consider it to be a "worthless" game.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on2 -
There is no valid MMR system, it seems completely random. The other day I tried 3 new killers and got absolutely dumpstered, then I moved to my main and got a brand new team who I slaughtered. This was all before the change ofc, and I could see their prestiges. All this just to say, there is no real matchmaking so there are no stakes at risk when playing, so why disallow lobby dodging?
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I am no advocate for lobby shopping but we got to shed light on the matter and address the reason WHY people do it. If X player goes in a match and has let's say 2k hours. Then look over to his teammate that has a p0 dwight that just started playing the game. Can you really blame the guy who dodges? Why are they getting in the same lobby in the first place? Why would the game not match equally skilled players in a lobby and say one survivor leaves and replace said survivor with someone with same skill level as the rest of lobby? This my friends, is the REAL culprit. This is what needs figuring out. Not a prestige badge removal in a lobby.
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MMR isn't a prize to be won, you can't even see what your MMR is. This situation alone that you mention here is exactly why visible MMR shouldn't be added.
Thought echnically, this doesn't even really solve lobby dodging - just makes the biggest reason why it was done a non-issue. Sure people won't dodge based on prestige anymore, but now they will dodge based on cosmetics, vibes, items held, etc. The issue has not changed any.
I still think the prestige removal was a step in the right direction, just to eliminate targeting p100s or people in Surv lobbies dodging p0s.1 -
If you get into a lobby and you see that your mmr is similar to teamates, they wouldn't dodge.
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That's really bold of you to assume that it means the KILLER would not dodge in that situation.
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Killer wouldnt see survs mmr only their own
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Then when match ends and everyone sees mmrs changes Or average lobby mmr to protect individuals from being flamed.
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And I was addressing the first half of your comment claiming that this update was a bandaid solution to the lobby dodging problem. I explained exactly why that's the solution that works best.
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That's not what works best or else I wouldn't have made a forum account to discuss the very thing that I cared about. Don't you reckon?
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As Mandy said above, the devs already tested this change last year with a subset of the playerbase and the results were positive. So I'll take their word over yours. Best of luck!
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You too! Thank you for giving your point of view it was nice to discuss!
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If X player goes in a match and has let's say 2k hours. Then look over to his teammate that has a p0 dwight that just started playing the game.
So how does he know that the dweet has just started? You don't get that from prestige.
Can you really blame the guy who dodges? Why are they getting in the same lobby in the first place?
First off yes as that's kinda the start of this whole mess. Why they're in the same lobby can is most likely either swf or backfill (which was caused by someone leaving in the first place).
Why would the game not match equally skilled players in a lobby and say one survivor leaves and replace said survivor with someone with same skill level as the rest of lobby?
We explained previously that people wanted speed over quality. Once someone dips out, matchmaking wants to fill the hole ASAP.
This is what needs figuring out.
Simply prioritize quality over speed. The people will complain about waiting forever for matches though.
Not a prestige badge removal in a lobby.
Yet this does help reduce lobby shopping while at the same time being quick and easy, was requested, helps p100s not be targeted (we have admittedly not seen it but have heard many whining about it), and hurts nothing but egos.
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It was tested last year. It made a huge difference when they hid prestige levels.
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And why not? Please explain your position on why it being an option skews your wants and needs. It seems to fit nicely.
edit: Bowing out. Seems this thread is a zombie now.
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I already did, many times already. Read the thread.
tested a/b, no in between has been tested (in between being what I have been suggesting).
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- You can check peoples steam profiles
- SWF bringing a low hours person in their game don't dodge them(???)\
- There's a limit to speed over quality if the game is going to lead to survivors killing themselves on first hook when they figure that their teammates don't fit their skill level.
- ^^
- it is a band-aid solution.
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I have no idea what you are talking about. They tested the above feature prior. It proved to be successful, they’re sticking to it.
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They said they ran a/b test. Not A/B/C test.
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My whole point was that the only valid reason for hiding MMR is if it’s doing something very controversial, that would be made public if everyone could see MMR.
Which is a problem, because it assumes BHVR is purposely hiding something for us, that they know we wouldn’t like. It’s kind of like how the forced short M1 attack bug, that can steal hits from the killer, is purposely not being acknowledged… even though there’s actual proof the game is forcing short m1 attacks as part of proximity checks, that are completely separate from the hit validation checks.
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there’s no point in prestige past 9 just p9 a bunch
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- Then hows hiding prestige a problem if they do this? We can also come with variants of making profiles private, but that seems irrelivant.
- No because A: you might get compitent players, B: Hours are slightly misleading. Some of our friends really only play Dbd for Kyfs and have gotten better than many under 1k hours. When they occasionally go on their own or in publics, it feels almost unfair how easy it is for them.
- Yet thats the currently available solution. The other one we can think of is fix players (not happening), but finding somethin else is what the discussion is for no? Besides that we do have a question: how would you measure skill levels? Lets say someone is amazing at running most killers, jukes, knowing counter play, yada yada. This survivor however absolutely sucks against spirit. How would you measure that? Theyre good against most the cast, but a potato against spirit. And aside from that, theres already a unnatural amount of people swinging to death.
- The above point.
- Yet its a band-aid that works and is slowly healing the problem, if even a little (lobby dodging specifically). Showing prestige is effectively not having a band-aid. Sure you'll live in the moment but its going to be irritating and the wound will fester if left as such causing long term damage.
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- Hiding is not a problem in itself. It's hiding it for EVERYONE that is the problem for me. I don't want to hide it. It should be an OPTION.
- Good for them? I don't know what point you are trying to make on this one. If they are getting dodged and have a decent mmr @low hours and feel like they need to hide their badge, well there would be an OPTION for it.
- It's the currently available solution because they didn't explore any further than a YEAR ago on an A/B test. if the player in question is good against most killers and have a weakness against one, that is the player concern to improve against said killer. As it always been for MMR based PVP games. Sure they will lose MMR facing SPIRIT. But most of the time if they are good against most killers they will see an MMR increase over time because sure you can run against a killer more than once, but the consistency will outweigh that.
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- it's not healing it's a matter of time before people that were lobby shopping increase their criteria for them to not dodge, if they did it in the first place when a meaningless badge was displayed, you can bet they'll keep on doing it until it affects them gameplay-wise.
I appreciate the time and the concerns you put into your messages, these are great way to work towards a solution that pleases everyone. I would also like to add that a prestige means PRESTIGE, which in every other game I know, is ELEVATED/REWARDED. I want DEDICATED survivors to be able to show it to their friends/others. I love this game and I want everyone to know it, even if they don't care. Freedom of choice on this matter is what I am an advocate. Other games gives you badges/borders in loading screen, a number that MEANS something to these people. Something that people gets on the game and works towards for.
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hidden prestige = get tunneled if it was an option. the only people that have any reason to hide it are p0 (considered easy pickings) or p100 (the "get tunneled" prestige already)
if you have no incentive beyond increasing a meaningless number that still displays in endgame lobbies to play, then you should probably try and find one?
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My fun was increasing that meaningless number. People hiding for whatever reason is valid and those are not two scenario are not the only reasons people uses anon mode. Also people already tunnels anon mode if you want to go this route.
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The only thing I’m seeing here is that the people who were complaining about lobby dodging, are now complaining that they can’t show off.
I personally don’t think this is gonna do anything for lobby dodging. Most people aren’t dodging because of someone’s prestige. They dodge because of SWF. You can hide whatever you want but believe me, you can tell when it’s an SWF.
The real problem isn’t being addressed, and it likely never will be. The more they try to balance the game for SoloQ, the more unbalanced it becomes when it’s an SWF.
Most killers don’t want to deal with it and so they just dodge. I am a survivor main and when I SWF we still get dodged despite the killer not being able to see prestige. They aren’t dodging a number they’re dodging a team with an advantage through comms. They already have to deal with four survivors, add in comms and full coordination the killer is in for a hard time.
These are just facts.
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Thank you for your input I agree on everything that you stated. As I said in earlier comments, what they did to badge visibility is nothing but a band aid solution and hinders their player base that is already lower on the survivor side, instead of removing incentives for people to play survivors, they should embrace these small things that people like me and many others enjoy about the game.
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