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Idea: Make hook states last indefinitely.
(Normal hook state timers during endgame.)
As it stands, I don't currently see a purpose of having hook states with a timer, other than to serve as a means of empowering hook camping. Especially when you pair it with perks like Deadlock and Grim Embrace, the hook timers are honestly too short, and create what I want to call artificial pressure.
Combine this with STBFL, and the Killer can start dropping all 4 Survivors with ease, and the game is over on the very first hook.
If hook states lasted indefinitely, then the Survivors can comfortably return pressure by pumping generators when faced with a camping situation. The Killer is now forced to leave the hook if it is naturally beneficial to do so. And if there are a bunch of Survivors near the hook going for the rescue, then it is naturally beneficial to stay at the hook at that point. All in all, indefinite hook state timers becomes a self-checking system, where the actual flow of the game determines what the Killer should and should not be doing, and it's up to them to assess it accordingly.
This change also does nothing at all to Killers that already go out seeking new Survivors to chase, pushing them off of other generators, and overall leaving the hook they just put somebody on. This change would literally only punish Killers that have already decided that they're going to camp the hooks as their intended strategy. All in all, this change would promote a more natural, and enjoyable, flow of the game.
And before you say, "Well then why would I ever go rescue a teammate?" (Because, for some reason, I've heard this as an argument, lol.)
Well, because you want that teammate on the floor with you, working the court. If somebody is left on the hook, they are effectively dead, since they are not doing gens or pulling the Killer's attention in a chase (for others to do gens). If you just let a teammate rot on a hook, now it's a 3v1. Then what? The next guy gets hooked. Now it's a 2v1, and so on. (When exactly do you plan on rescuing people? Never, just because it lasts indefinitely?)
It's pretty obvious why you will still want to rescue your teammates. The only difference is that now you're allowed to wait until it's safe to do so, rather than being FORCED into a terrible situation (like a hook trade, which is very unhealthy for the game) just because of some outdated timer.
If anyone sees an issue with this idea, or agrees with it, I'd like to have the discussion! However, I do not want to hear people say that it "sounds abusable" but without giving a scenario in which it is. That's just a fallacy, and fallacies are dead air.
P.S.
We could also get rid of the Kobe mechanic, at that point. It serves no real purpose anyway, except for letting Survivors leave games without taking a leaver penalty. There's no legitimate reason to defend this mechanic, so be careful before exposing yourself as an exerciser of Survivor Privilege.
Comments
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I know your argument is that you want a survivor on the ground to help with gens and whatnot, but is that really the case?
The reason hooking creates pressure is, yes, that survivor isn't doing anything to assist the team, but also that survivor might die and leave them with one less survivor. If it were indefinite, survivors could stick to gens until the next chase guaranteed, and it takes one good looper for the other two to finish gens and grab that survivor in the time it takes to down, hook, find the next one and start the next chase. Especially in bigger maps.Mind you, this is in a normal match without the killer camping or patrolling the hook and nearby gens.
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Do you want to be slugged on the ground? Because this is how you get slugged on the ground.
No killer is going to spend time hooking a survivor if there's no pressure to be gained from the time spent doing so.
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There'd obviously be no dramatic downsides for the killer, but I would be slightly concerned about teammates being griefed by just being left there.
That obviously wouldn't be good for the team strategically, but people will go out of their way to be little demons to each other already, and I'd be wary about this being a new, particularly obnoxious avenue for it. Not sure how to fix it, or if it'd be a problem at all, but it's the one downside I can think of.
Otherwise, it would be an interesting thing to test.
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people would just never save until somebody else got downed. With an extra 10 seconds there’s already been a “gens before friends” mentality lurking in the darkness of soloQ. This would make that 1 billion times worse
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You're about 8 years late with that idea.
They already tried it and it was TERRIBLE. People were getting left on hooks for like minutes at a time.
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there’s no reason to save then, you can do gens and not worry about them since they could sit there for all of eternity, and no I read the post, one survivor sitting there causes no pressure. It’s supposed to be an abandon all work and save them not whenever they wish. This will also make games forever is three are hooked and ones hiding.
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All the perks you're referencing at the beginning of your post have been nerfed. Some heavily. I can't even remember the last time I saw Save.
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You're right that one survivor sitting there causes no pressure, but that's because survivors don't create pressure at all, killers do.
Your hook pressure comes from going and occupying more survivors to keep damaging their generator efficiency. If they heavily delay the save, you're progressing your objective considerably faster than they are. If they refuse to save, you could and probably will just snowball a win.
Excessive hiding may be a more fair concern, though.
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survivor create a lot of pressure. Gens are the killers objective and there’s usually one being worked on at least at all times.
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Gens are the survivor's objective. Survivors themselves are the killer's objective.
But, more to the point, I meant that survivors don't create the killer's pressure for them. The survivor dangling there isn't, themselves, providing pressure to the killer, the fact that you can occupy multiple survivors at once while they're there is what gives you pressure. Obviously survivors can create their own team's pressure, apologies if that wasn't clear.
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Dunno what you call a survivor working on a high value gen and prerunning when you get near anything but t creating pressure. That you think pressure is the sole province of killer is........ ridiculous.
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Okay, I definitely misspoke here, so let me try to clarify again.
When I say that survivors don't create pressure, killers do, I'm talking ONLY about hook pressure. It's not the survivors that give you pressure from hooks, it's you.
Survivors can absolutely pressure their objective, that's not what I'm talking about here. When you get a hook, it's not the hooked survivor giving you the killer your pressure. It's you going and occupying other survivors that creates your pressure.
Survivors are absolutely able to create pressure on their objective. They just aren't responsible for your pressure.
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This is a Survivor misplay, and would benefit the Killer VERY much. This makes it essentially a 3v1 on first hook. Like I said… Survivors want 4 players on the court. Not less. Any time spent letting a teammate rot on hook, when they could be safely unhooked, is wasted time for the team.
… You're honestly right. Slugging is already arguably better than hooking, since you deny hook perks with it.
Sigh. This game sure is a mess, isn't it?
Griefing teammates would indeed be annoying. But I don't know if that's a tally against the idea, since, currently, the hooked Survivor can grief by suiciding. Also, the teammates can grief the hooked Survivor by refusing to rescue and then you full-on die, as the game is right now. I've had this happen to me twice in a single day, two days ago.
But yeah, I think this would be a really interesting test. And, honestly, if slugging simply became the next thing… then maybe that becomes the next problem to tackle. Which I don't think anyone would complain about, because I'm pretty sure everyone would like for that to be tackled even as things are right now!
Oh, wow. Fascinating. I never knew!
I wonder if a second test would be more educational than the first. This was the same patch where Killers became able to kick gens, it seems?? So how many years ago would that be? Maybe the community's average skill and understanding has grown, and we can make a better analysis of it. Also maybe the community has matured (lol).
But, like, objectively… letting people rot on hooks is not good for the team. So, if it's for griefing purposes, I'm not sure if that's a good reason not to have it??? It's not like it's a "new grief tool." We'd be replacing one (suiciding) with another (rotting). And with rotting, it would take THREE people to collectively make that decision, whereas suiciding takes only one.
Wish I was there for that, so I could have a perspective on what it was like, rather than taking someone's word on it.
That's because a perk can be "nerfed" by 1% and people abandon ship. And everyone infamously has a collective hive mind, and people don't think for themselves.
STBFL still does what it always did, and is the only perk that has that job. If you want to camp a hook, I promise you, Grim + Dead + STBFL is a guaranteed win against solo players, and a majority win against SWF's. And all 3 of those perks were "nerfed."
There's even a flex slot in that build, lol.
Overall, I'm just trying to solve the problem. MAYBE this idea creates a new problem or two, but if we gave each problem a score of 1 to 100, I would wager this idea provides a net positive on problems being solved, versus problems being added.
Is that agreeable?
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