Exit gates need to be blocked for 15 seconds after closing hatch to prevent hatch stand off
Not blocking the exit gates leads to the same situation as hatch stand off. It varies depending on the map but if the hatch spawns far away from the exit gates, which is guaranteed to occur on certain maps, e.g. The Game, Lery's, and Badham, the survivor can wait at the gate to start openning it the moment hatch is closed, which allows them to open the gate before the killer can reach it. Steps:
- Survivor waits at gate for killer to close hatch
- Killer closes hatch
- Survivor immediately starts openning gate
- Killer walks straight to gate
- Gate is already openned by the time killer arrives
The killer cannot make it to the gate even if it they walk directly to it (with 4.6 m/s). The only counter play is to wait on the hatch without closing it until the survivor gives up. This is a hatch stand off.
The gate should be blocked for 15 seconds the moment hatch is closed. It won't be like No Way Out where it is only blocked when the survivors touch the gate. This change will only impact people abusing this strategy. There will be virtually no impact to survivors looking for hatch as normal since survivors typically attempt to open the gate in last 20%-30% of the end game timer and running to the gate takes more than 15 seconds most of the time, so the gate will already be unblocked by the time they reach it.
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Why? The endgame collapse starts as soon as the hatch is closed, so they can't hide forever. And the Killer can easily reach the door before the Survivor can open it. The endgame collapse timer is not long at all, so blocking the gates for 15 seconds can 100% doom them, which shouldn't be a thing. As it is, their likelihood of escaping after the hatch is closed is about the same as their chances of unhooking themselves, about 4%.
And if you're purposely waiting to close the hatch, then this standoff is your own fault. If you don't want this standoff, close the hatch. If the last Survivor gets out, oh well. It's not the end of the world. You've already won the game anyway.
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Nope. I already told you. If the hatch spawns far away from the gate, it's impossible to reach the gate in time before the survivor opens it. This is guaranteed to occur on certain maps, such as The Game and Lery's. This is what happens:
- Survivor is waiting at gate for me to close hatch
- I close hatch
- Survivor immediately starts openning gate
- I walk straight to gate
- Gate is already openned by the time I arrive
There's 0 counter play asides from waiting on the hatch for the survivor to give up. It's the exact same scenario as a hatch stand off.
Blocking the gate for 15 seconds only affects survivors that are abusing this strategy. It's extremely rare for survivors to attempt to open the gate within the first 15 seconds. If they are genuinely looking for hatch, the time it takes to walk to the gate should already take up most of the 15 seconds.
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And like I said, you've already won the game at that point anyway. Losing the last Survivor isn't the end of the world. No one should be guaranteed a free 4k like that.
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Stop with your boogus "I already won the game" at 3k argument. By your logic, survivors should not try to get a 4-man escape and the last survivor should suicide/give up instead of escaping because they "already won the game". If I check your stream, I doubt you consistently give the killer a free kill when your team will get a 4-man escape, making you a hypocrite.
How is it a free guaranteed 4K? In almost every single match, the survivor attempts to open the gate in last 20%-30% of the end game timer and running to the gate takes more than 15 seconds most of the time, so the gate will already be unblocked by the time they even reach it. It literally has 0 impact unless the survivor is abusing the strategy I described.
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Looking for the hatch,
or wait at the gate for the Killer to close the hatch.
It's a gamble. It's a mind game.
If I was the killer. I am praise the survivor who made it escape.0 -
No, it isn't. The killer can't waste time checking every inch of the exit gate for someone hiding and there are 2 exit gates to check. Even if the killer finds the survivor, they can still escape if they find hatch. It's an extremely favoured scenario for the survivor. Also, it takes no skill to afk at the exit gate. Doesn't deserve praise at all.
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There actually is counter play to that strategy. And if you encounter it so frequently, it should be obvious.
Bring No Way Out and/or Remember Me. That will give you the exact thing that you’re looking for whenever this strategy is employed.
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What happened? Missed out on an easily obtainable 4k? 60% kill rate isn't enough for you, need more?
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Unnerf Ultimate Weapon because you can bring Calm Spirit
Unnerf Pain Res because you can bring Sabo
Unnerf Hex Ruin and NOED because you can bring all the anti-totem perks or learn to land skill checks
Unnerf hook camping because you can bring Reassurance
I shouldn't have to bring specific perks to counter an unfair and overpowered strategy. It should be nerfed like all the other overpowered stuff.
I guess I'll just sit on the hatch for 30 minutes then if you want it that way.
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It’s not overpowered. There are two exit gates, and a hatch. Even if you close the hatch, you have to choose the correct exit gate. This is designed this way to give the last survivor a chance. That is why there is a hatch. You have to choose. Hatch or gates.
If you want to not have to choose, you’ll need to use a perk slot for that.
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You didn't understand my post. In the scenario I described, closing the hatch is a guaranteed escape for the survivor. It doesn't matter which gate I choose to check because they can open it before I reach any of them. This is not by design at all. The devs intended for the killer and survivor to look for hatch and only play for exit gates once hatch is closed. This is how the vast majority of games play out. The camping the exit gate strategy is an oversight by the devs not realising it's a guaranteed escape.
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I can agree with killers on a lot of things, but on this you are just objectively wrong.
The hatch has been in the game long before only one survivor could use it. At one time you could get all four survivors out through the hatch with a key.
So no, there is no oversight, and the hatch was not designed in the way that you are suggesting.
Even when you read the little tips that pop up while a match is loading, it clearly reads.
If you are the last survivor remaining in the trial the hatch may be an OPTION to escape.
Option… not exclusive. There is nothing at all that suggests that a survivor must go for the hatch.
They have several options. If there is only one generator to complete, they can complete it. They can look for the hatch, or they can wait for the killer to close it.
Mix in the fact that there are several killers who are almost always going to find the hatch before a survivor because of map traversal, and yeah … waiting by the exit gates is definitely a smarter choice.
And if you are standing on the hatch for that long, and the survivor is not coming to it, then you already know what they are doing. You also already know where the hatch is so go chase them away from the door and then close the hatch.
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The hatch has been in the game long before only one survivor could use it. At one time you could get all four survivors out through the hatch with a key.
How is this proof for your argument? They patched this out, so it's more like evidence against you. Also, something being in the game for a long time doesn't prove anything. 3 genning was in the game for 8 years but the devs admitted it was an oversight and patched it out this year.
So no, there is no oversight, and the hatch was not designed in the way that you are suggesting.
Even when you read the little tips that pop up while a match is loading, it clearly reads.
If you are the last survivor remaining in the trial the hatch may be an OPTION to escape.
Option… not exclusive. There is nothing at all that suggests that a survivor must go for the hatch.
They have several options. If there is only one generator to complete, they can complete it. They can look for the hatch, or they can wait for the killer to close it.
That doesn't contradict my argument at all. No where did I say that hatch was the only option for escape. I said that the intention was to aim for hatch first then exit gates after if hatch gets closed.
Mix in the fact that there are several killers who are almost always going to find the hatch before a survivor because of map traversal, and yeah … waiting by the exit gates is definitely a smarter choice.
The only killers that suit this category are Billy, Blight, and Wraith. The rest of the killer roster shouldn't need to be forced to hatch stand off just because of 3 killers.
And if you are standing on the hatch for that long, and the survivor is not coming to it, then you already know what they are doing. You also already know where the hatch is so go chase them away from the door and then close the hatch.
Leaving the hatch is a very unfavourable gamble for a killer:
- The survivor could be waiting at the hatch for you to leave.
- There are 2 exit gates, so if you guess incorrectly, that leaves a large window for the survivor to get hatch
- It can be hard to find the survivor at the exit gate depending on the map and where they hide. If they realise you are looking for them, they can adjust their strategy accordingly
- Even if you find them, they can still make it to hatch with injured speed boost and dropping all the pallets
Finally, it doesn't solve the hatch stand off problem because I still have to sit on hatch for at least 10 minutes to confirm that they aren't coming out.
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So because you have to choose your strategy, you think you should just get no way out basekit?
Since you want to give us all of the “what if’s” let’s go over a few more.
- The survivor might have a key.
- The survivor might have Left Behind
- The survivor might have a rainbow map
What you are asking for is to not have to make any choices. You’re telling us everything that “can” happen and you want the developers of the game to make it so that none of it can possibly happen. That is absolutely absurd.
If you get to the hatch and decide to stand on it and not close it, that is a choice. If you choose to close it immediately, that is a choice. You cannot predict whether the survivor is looking for the hatch or waiting at the exit gates and you’re asking for the game to hold your hand so that you don’t have to think about it at all.
The longer that you choose to stand on the hatch is what gives the survivor a guaranteed escape. It is a strategy and what you’re asking for is to make sure that you get a guaranteed final kill.
Whether you like the strategy or not, it is a strategy. Just like the counter play is either, Bring a perk to prevent it, or … prevent the hatch from spawning. If you’ve done neither one of those things, then you have to take the gamble.
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Imagine doing all 5 gens, and the Killer presses a button (same logic as hatch) and you die to a heart attack. But your team escaped, right? You won anyway. (And if you're going to argue that you specifically wouldn't win, that means we have to consider everyone separately. It means the Killer maybe won against you, but lost to the 3 survivors. That means if one person escapes, the Killer loses to that one survivor. Which, toxic survivors that get hatch love to point out.)
If you deserved the escape, you'd want the escape. Same as the killer, who would want to get the 4k.
No killer would mind if they had 1 gen left, and it was a very intense game that they expected to lose, where one survivor got hatch. It's fine. At that point, I'd just be happy and say GG's.
But if I get 3 kills at 3 gens left, and the last guy gets to escape because I am FORCED to close hatch to even have a chance at killing him, then yes, I will be bothered.
Hatch is a problem. Killers get punished for doing well, and some maps straight up don't allow you to hold W towards a gate after closing hatch. This promotes survivors waiting at gates instead of looking for the hatch.
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Well, that’s a different issue. I think it should still be the old way. Where the hatch does not spawn unless there was at least a certain number of generators completed. I think before the hatch could only spawn at 2 gens left, or 1.
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So because you have to choose your strategy, you think you should just get no way out basekit?
What you are asking for is to not have to make any choices. You’re telling us everything that “can” happen and you want the developers of the game to make it so that none of it can possibly happen. That is absolutely absurd.
If you get to the hatch and decide to stand on it and not close it, that is a choice. If you choose to close it immediately, that is a choice. You cannot predict whether the survivor is looking for the hatch or waiting at the exit gates and you’re asking for the game to hold your hand so that you don’t have to think about it at all.
I already said that the reason is avoid a hatch stand off, which was patched out in the past. This has nothing to do with decision-making. I already made my decision, which is to sit on the hatch since it is objectively the best choice.
Since you want to give us all of the “what if’s” let’s go over a few more.
The survivor might have a key.
The survivor might have Left Behind
The survivor might have a rainbow map
I'm fine with that since they had to waste an item or perk for it, which disadvantages them. They may get hatch but they increased the chances of their team losing.
The longer that you choose to stand on the hatch is what gives the survivor a guaranteed escape.
False. Standing on hatch is a guaranteed kill. At the 1 hour mark, the game automatically ends with all 4 survivors dying.
It is a strategy and what you’re asking for is to make sure that you get a guaranteed final kill.
I've already asked @CrypticGirl and I'll again.
How is it a free guaranteed 4K? In almost every single match, the survivor attempts to open the gate in last 20%-30% of the end game timer and running to the gate takes more than 15 seconds most of the time, so the gate will already be unblocked by the time they even reach it. It literally has 0 impact unless the survivor is abusing the strategy I described.
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But obviously, you’re closing it in order for this to be a problem. If you are not closing it, then what is the point of this thread?
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It's like you don't read or something. The problem is that I need to stand on the hatch for 30+ minutes and the only other option is to take a large risk leaving the hatch. It's the same reason 3 genning and Skull Merchant was reworked: games take too long.
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Just this.
if 'exitgates need to be blocked for 15 seconds after closing hatch' for you, please use 'No Way Out' for the next.
And if you are convinced 'The camping the exit gate strategy is an oversight by the devs not realising it's a guaranteed escape.' you are wrong. You should use high mobility killer, or if you have a slower killer, try to find a strategic point of view to lurk the 2 exitgates. If you can't or if you don't, do your best to catch the last as you could do as survivor.
And just because I am curious, how do you deal to open the exitgate in this situation, as last survivor after the hatch is closed ? Have you really guaranteed escaped ?0 -
If doors are too far to patrol I let them have it. No big deal if they escape. It doesn't even sound fair to close hatch and be able to get a head start on patrolling. Some things are not worth it for an extra sacrifice.
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Boy, I wish I had you as my Killer every time I was the last Survivor standing if the last one gets out every single time you close hatch. Because the last Survivor only has like a 5% chance of getting out through the gates once hatch is closed. What you are asking for is to remove that 5% chance and guarantee that you'll catch the last Survivor.
You're complaining that you don't want this hatch standoff, yet YOU are the one who creates it by sitting on top of the open hatch.
The counterplay is simple, as others have said. Close the hatch. Of course it's not guaranteed to work every single time, nor should it. You're asking the devs to fix a non-existent "problem" that you bring upon yourself when you don't have to.
And for the record? If all four Survivors are alive in endgame, and I happen to get hooked then, I will throw on hook and let the others escape. So your accusation of me being a "hypocrite" is a blatant lie.
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Just bring No Way Out if you don't like the mechanic. I for one think the final 1v1 or 1v2 should be changed to be more fun for both sides instead of a boring 50/50. Like you could challenge the other side to a chase and you both get a nice BP reward or maybe even a totally separate BP reward.
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Me when I'm desperate for 4K
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There's currently a Tome challenge where survivors have to open 2 exit gates, which is why you're probably getting alot of survivors doing this (I did it also to get the challenge done, Wake Up and Sole Survivor help). Just shut hatch and take your chances. With 2 exit gates and the survivor not knowing which is closest to hatch, you've got a good chance of finding them before they get the gate open. Blocking the gates is silly. Hatch, as the devs have said, exists solely as a means to end the game. If there's a stand off in this situation it's you refusing to shut hatch, and that's easily rectified. You've then shut down 1 out of 3 ways for the survivor to escape and you only have 2 now. And yet you want the devs to make it even easier for you lol
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As I've said, the only people this change affects are people abusing the strategy I described. By afking at the exit gate, the survivor made 0 attempt to look for the hatch, so they gave up their 50% chance to find hatch and escape. The survivor shouldn't have a high chance of escaping after hatch is closed. Hatch give survivors an escape when they use it, so the equivalent should be given to the killer when it is closed, which is a kill. Getting to play for exit gates after hatch is closed is a privilege. Hatch is also a privilege as a survivor that lost at 5 gens would have had 0 chance of escaping if not for hatch. When survivors complain about hatch and exit gates, all I see are entitled people complaining about their privilege. These are all 2nd chance mechanics that survivors did nothing to deserve. They were given simply for losing the game.
You're complaining that you don't want this hatch standoff, yet YOU are the one who creates it by sitting on top of the open hatch.
You're asking the devs to fix a non-existent "problem" that you bring upon yourself when you don't have to.
Nope. Survivor is equally guilty for hiding and abusing a strategy with no counter play. The survivor can give up any time just like me.
It's not a non-existent problem. I've had it happen to me several times in the past. I closed hatch, walked straight to the gate and it was already openned when I arrived. There was no counter play asides from sitting on the hatch.
The counterplay is simple, as others have said. Close the hatch. Of course it's not guaranteed to work every single time, nor should it.
A strategy that is guaranteed to fail if the survivor is using the strategy I described is not counter play.
And for the record? If all four Survivors are alive in endgame, and I happen to get hooked then, I will throw on hook and let the others escape. So your accusation of me being a "hypocrite" is a blatant lie.
Link your Twitch. Also, you're already shifting it to "if I get hooked". You're still trying to escape if you haven't been hooked, which is probably 75% of the time.
Post edited by adsads123123123123 on0 -
When survivors complain about hatch and exit gates, all I see are entitled people complaining about their privilege.
And this suggestion of yours is about the most entitled I've ever seen from a Killer. It's absolutely ridiculous to expect (or even just wait) for the Survivor to leap into your arms by sitting on the hatch.
It's not a non-existent problem. I've had it happen to me several times in the past. I closed hatch, walked straight to the gate and it was already openned when I arrived. There was no counter play asides from sitting on the hatch.
Only several times? Again, it sounds like you just want the 4th kill to be handed to you. If the last Survivor escapes "only several times" after you close hatch, it's not a big deal. You're not going to 4k every single game, nor should you. You don't need to 4k every single time. Just like we don't have to get a 4-person-out every single game.
Link your Twitch. Also, you're already shifting it to "if I get hooked". You're still trying to escape if you haven't been hooked, which is probably 75% of the time.
Sorry, I'm not linking my Twitch just so you can pick apart, scrutinize or criticize everything I do in the game.
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I feel the same way I think they should spawn in the gates once hatch is closed or gens are all popped to prevent gate camping. No one should know where the gates are on either side untill that happens.
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An easy fix for this would be introducing a perk that lets you see the survivor's aura after you close the hatch.
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The killer can absolutely make it to the exit gate after closing the hatch in time. If they choose the right exit, which means the survivor still has a 50/50 chance. Considering the survivor would have to forego attempting to find the hatch to pull this off, it's still only one 50/50 coin flip.
Some killers can even make it to both exits in time, forcing survivors to attempt a staggered openning and hiding nearby. While others can trap/monitor exits with their power making such an attempt impossible. Or detect the last survivor with perks to remove any chance of chosing the wrong exit. So it's already in the killers favour more often than not.
The last survivor has to have a fair chance of escaping, so as to not have the 2nd kill determine a 4K, and turn every 2K match into a de facto 4K match.
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