Major Anti Camp buffs are Coming!!!

The main reason a lot of people camped in the first lights out was because it was so hard to see an track people so they camped the first person they found as trying to find something else was a nightmare. I remember games were killers could not find anyone all game.

This issue was super prominent actually, and it's WHY you only really saw info Killers in Lights Out. Nobody else could find anyone. I am not worried about these changes for Lights Out, I am more worried about Candelabras being apparently, able to hide information like gens from Killers. Why do Survivors need that? What is the point of basekit Residual Manifest? Not only does it seem petty, it's pointless, Killers can still just listen for gens.

On that note the muffled sounds idea is a bad, bad bad addition, it's already leaked into the main game as a glitch right now with audio. Sounds should be key to Lights Out, why muffle them especially for people who don't play on PC or with headphones? You just made the game impossible for half the playerbase to detect Killer OR Survivor. The only way this could feel fair is if the Candelabras somehow make for areas the Killers can see the Survivors better by using them, making using this item somewhat risky.

I suppose we will have to see when the mode launches. But I am a little concerned this still won't work.

The worst part about the Candelabras is they have zero counter play, because survivors can safely place them on the ground next to a generator, and wait for the generator to be 99% before placing the Candelabra on a generator.

Candelabras can be destroyed if a survivor places them on a generator. But Candelabras can’t be destroyed if a survivor places them on the ground next to a generator.

Where do Killers usually hook Survivors? I'll give you a hint, if they went down, they probably didn't have any pallets or windows, otherwise they woulda used them and not went down. That's right! They usually get hooked in a deadzone! What does that mean : "or … have nothing to work with", it fits that criteria nearly every time. You don't need edge-map also, the deadzone enough removes their chances.

Now yes, if it was a M1 Killer without Haste/Hinder/Damaging M2, then sure, Trapper and Legion might actually be affected by DS. The problem is you are typically playing an opportunistic playstyle as those Killers (if you want to win), and playing into DS is nearly never opportunistic on those Killers. It is a win as Huntress when they can't Dodge the 8m Hatchet from their 2s stun differential's worth of distance, Demo Shredding ~11m to hit off DS, Wesker Dashing 7m to position and hitting with the 2nd dash, and so on.

Not being able to down a Survivor quickly doesn't always have much to do with skill difference - I'm sorry, what is the process of determining which actions to take based on their effective outcome called? Y'know, when you uh, kick the gen or chase, pick which Surv to chase, where to chase someone, which side to break the Pallet, whether to fail prey for OTR/DS baits or knowingly kill them in time? You even said it, "it's just a bad decision macro-wise". Would that be… Macro skill? So if that indeed was Macro skill, that would be a skill difference. Huh, neat how that pans out.

It's annoying that the AFC gauge builds up even if you just break the surrounding boards, so I'm going to adopt the knockout perk and leave the downed survivors rolling on the ground.

I don't like the idea of leaving downed survivors on the ground, but if hanging them on hooks is becoming a fetter, I don't have a choice HAHA

1 minute of 10% speed and endurance and 32m anticamp range would be extremely silly in the main mode. Its suposed to be a gritty survivor game with party game aspects not a party game with survivor aspects. At that point why even keep trying to remove tunneling or camping without removing tunneling or camping and giving compensatory buffs. Just remove hook timers and give survivors a shared hook pool for 4 and personal hook pool of 2. No one dies before 6 hooks and everyone gets at least 2 hooks minimum unless everyone gets hooked.

Being able to be "safe" in a game where someone is trying to kill you would just be comedic and the metas following changes like this would not be fun. Trying to remove "tunneling" and "camping" without technically removing them just so you don't have to make up for it by buffing killers is just never gonna work without killing the game or making dbd not a tom and jerry simulator (you can catch the mouse but you can't ever win) Can't wait for the unhook and hide meta because you can no longer put the person you just unhooked in a bad spot anymore and have to be across the entire map or not on a small map with massive self unhook ranges.

If you want to enjoy a 6 month lifespan before all but top killers quit be my guest but changes like this would put the game on indefinite dlc life support.

nothing is guaranteed. I am just saying that something that is successful is more likely to re-appear.

what about it is silly? Otz for example made a video a few days ago talking about hard-tunneling off hook is too effective. 60 second of 10% haste and endurence isn't too far fetched in a world where experienced player like otz agree that something needs to change. Proxy camping is something that is less talked about as problematic however most of the time, tunneling and proxy camping are often lumped into one so it makes sense for them to address the problem together.

Being able to be "safe" in a game where someone is trying to kill you would just be comedic and the metas following changes like this would not be fun.

Your safe till you touch a gen. if you touch a gen, the bonuses go away. in practice, you can still be downed but at the same time, people complained about chasing 3% MFT, so if you complain about a small % like MFT, then you definitely are going complain a lot more about chasing 10% haste. Your not really untouchable but in practice, if you play well, it is unlikely the killer will think favourable about chasing you. The killer can still apply pressure to other survivors.

a 20% repair speed buff too apparently

This entire argument is silly and the OP of this clickbaity thread is wrong because the whole argument that these changes are coming and needed are negated by one little fact from the start: That these changes are ONLY a whacky buff meant for a single mode. Just like every other wacky change from every other mode. Did any of the other mode or modifier changes come permanently to live? No? Then why would these?

In live, we don't have 2v8 cages or teleporting hooks. We don't have the massive boosts and buffs we got in Masquerade either side and we don't, thank Entity, have remote hooking in live either. In the future during Blood Moon, we likely won't have permanent Blood Zones in the regular game - only the event queue - and we don't have an item that makes the Killer huge and the Survivors small in pubs either like in MLO. We also probably won't have any of the Bone Chill or Haunted by Daylight things outside of the event queues aside from bonus points, and I think everyone reasonably knows this. Literally not one singular gameplay twist from any event or modifier has ever, ever come to Live in any capacity or any way and probably never will because by nature, they're meant to be wacky unbalanced unique changes to make the special modes special.

So why do people think it's gonna be different with Lights Out? We are not ever going to have 60 second endurance, 20% repair buff, and a doubled AFC in the main game. Ever. Because those are not balanced for the main game… they are, however, for the originally Killer-sided 2v8, you know why?

Because Survivors need them in Lights Out, but NOT in the regular game mode.

This is because there's already a plethora of perks, items, and addons (weak or not it really doesn't matter as long as they exist for use) in the main mode to fix the issues these address. That and many of those things, particularly the perks, are about to be massively shaken up soon on both sides; modifiers have a history of getting wacky and their changes basically never go anywhere but the modes period. The only way these changes coming live could ever be even REMOTELY fair to the vast majority of Killers, who are simply trying to play the game as intended, is if we also brought something like Remote Hooking or an equivalent change that benefits them to Live, at which point the base game wouldn't even be the base game anymore, but a bloated mess of conditionals and frankly, unnecessary cruft gimmick mechanics. Is that really, REALLY what we want?

The simple fact is that messing around with the original formula in the pursuit of "perfect" is the mortal enemy of the "good" that is already in the base game, and people who just want a pure experience without shenanigans would leave if it happened - the very people who basically pay BHVR's bills and make this game exist. Some people, in fact I'd wager most people, JUST want to play basic DBD with maybe a little occasional modifier every now and then as a twist to the routine. Between that and the glitchiness these modes sometimes add, no wacky modifier changes, however fun or helpful, can therefore ever feasibly come live; even something like basekit softer sounds for everyone on both sides would be much too unbalanced to bring live with perks on top of it all, as we can already see with the audio bugs alone. Let's not even pretend it wouldn't be broken as all hell to bring ANYTHING from a modifier to the base game, because it so obviously would and so obviously is.

Now let's please all stop huffing copium and asking for ridiculous, obviously unbalanced and even somewhat unfun things used ONLY IN MODIFIERS that make sense ONLY IN MODIFIERS to even the score, to be put into live. It's as dumb to ask for these to be in the base game as it was for Killers who wanted remote hooks to become part of the base game. Put on the perks and wait for BHVR to do an actual solution because these changes are never, ever coming to live. It's just not happening. Let it go.

fat fingered the enter button

They feasibly cannot give Survivors 10% more haste, where did that even come from? I didn't see that anywhere in any information for this mode and Endurance by definition is not Haste. Being hit like this wouldn't give you more haste than you normally get, period. You are asking for unfair buffs that would be a problem for almost the entire roster and thus, would actually kill the game because nobody can play anything but Blight and Nurse.

Sorry, Charlie. Survivors aren't intended by the game's design to be able to forever loop OR be totally safe after just getting off the hook. Survivors are meant to eventually go down and die. Sometimes they go down again not long after getting off hook even if the Killer doesn't camp or tunnel ANYONE, it just happens. Killers are meant to hook Survivors AND deserve to be allowed to have feasible time and range to do things before being punished for camping when they aren't camping and are on their way out to chase more. Just like Survivors deserve the ACTUAL solution to tunnelling being something like… I dunno, better antitunnel perks, better tools, or the devs giving Killers more ways to win than just slaughtering everyone all of which are healthier for the game.

This ain't coming to live because of your exact first sentence: 99% of Killers CANNOT handle Survs going the same speed as them, it just would not be fair.

Your Survivor Main bias is heavily showing in this thread, as is a weirdly vehement hatred of Killers for some reason. Why do you hate Killer players so much, you want things from a mode that would definitely be unbalanced and detrimental to game health to include?

Why on earth do you want to make Killer so, so, so so so impossibly hard that they now can't hook, can't do anything even if chasing without Survs getting a free unhook AND a minute of endurance with it, can't slug, can't camp, can't tunnel, can't do anything, and thus have no way to pressure? Because that is, exactly, and directly, what all of your posts here have been asking. Every single one.

I had no idea the entitlement of some players was this bad.

I didn't see that anywhere in any information for this mode and Endurance by definition is not Haste.

Do you understand how borrow time works after being unhooked? You currently gain 10 second of endurance and 10% haste. They're changing that to 60 second of endurance and haste. that is what it says. This is disabled upon doing conspicuous action.

The anti-proximity mechanic radius is being doubled from what i think is 16 meter to 32 meters. in practice, there is degrading distance between being close and far from hook so i'd say it is around 24 meters.

Sometimes they go down again not long after getting off hook even if the Killer doesn't camp or tunnel ANYONE, it just happens.

It just happens… right. Sometimes they go down? yeah i don't think killer is accidentally camping or tunneling. /shrug.

Just like Survivors deserve the ACTUAL solution to tunnelling being something like

This is actual solution. your complaining about actual solution.

Why on earth do you want to make Killer so, so, so so so impossibly hard that they now can't hook,

who said anything about being unable to hook? the changes are related to making tunneling less efficient and proxy-camping less efficient. your going to need to play differently then your usual strategies to get the W.

Bold of you to assume im gonna play lights out and "see it work properly" thankfully I can probably manage a 10% haste whenever I feel like it as blight and people will stop bringing off the record and ds because they would feel safer than ever, the anti-camp and anti-tunnel update is gonna be no tunneling for thee but for me

WHERE does it say Survivors get a 10% Haste boost… anywhere in the new Lights Out rules? I don't see that anywhere. Did I miss something or are we arguing hypotheticals again?

Done arguing with you, Devil_hit, you're obviously just looking for ways to make the game impossible for everyone but the toppest of tier Killers. Enjoy only playing Nurse and Blight forever or mobility Killers forever if your suggested, ridiculous, overkill changes come to live. Which they won't, because the developers are sane.

OTR is less of a problem because it requires a perk slot to use.

The game is assymetric. Some things in the game are correlated, others not so much.

I can only assume that BHVR looked at the results of the last Light's Out, and have made some tweaks to try and balance the game out. There are dynamics in the match other than gen progress. But only BHVR has that data, so I can only speculate.

It's fair to say that BHVR sometimes overcorrects when trying to fix problems. Can't deny that. Getting hard tunneled when you can't even see where anything is, caused problems with the mode's first iteration. They have have attempted to fix that.

The gen progress buff and the new item must mean that survivors were losing a lot of time locating gens. So the devs are hoping this balances things out. Time will tell I suppose.

Simple fix: Survivors with endurance from OTR, BT, and basekit also receive no collision with the killer for the duration.

This would make bodyblocking with it nearly impossible. There is no downside unless you are trying to bodyblock the unhooked survivor to wait out BT.