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The Cannibal Update Suggestion
I prepared some suggestions to buff The Cannibal in many ways - I'm not talking about the Rework, but huge buffs like Hillbilly got - better stats, but without new mechanics as Overdrive. I believe these changes would make base kit Bubba much stronger, with many ways to counterplay his Power. Strong Killer with chase Power that can be outplayed if played well - Killer that would require skill to play properly. I think currently even after the buffs The Cannibal is very hard to play on slightly higher level and his lack of mobility sometimes limits his potential.
The Cannibal | Base Kit Changes
- Increased Chainsaw Sweep movement speed to 5.45 m/s (was 5.35 m/s).
- Increased movement speed during the Chainsaw's cooldown to 1.84 m/s (was 1.38 m/s).
- Increased movement speed during the Tantrum to 1.55 m/s (was 0.46 m/s).
- Increased movement speed while Revving the Chainsaw to 3.55 m/s (was 3.45 m/s).
- Decreased time required to recharge Chainsaw Charge to 3.5 seconds (was 4 seconds).
- Decreased base Chainsaw's cooldown after missed Chainsaw Attack to 1.25 seconds (was 1.5 seconds).
- Adjusted time required to reach maximum movement speed during a Chainsaw Sweep to 0.5 seconds (was 1.5 seconds or more).
- Added a new Bloodpoints category that grants additional 350 Bloodpoints in Brutality category for successful Chainsaw Hit.
- Added a new Bloodpoints category that grants additional 250 Bloodpoints in Deviousness category for successful Long Chainsaw Sweeps or successful Chainsaw Hits during the Tantrum.
Notes: As you can see - many buffs, but most of them are more like details or not that important. The most important change would be movement speed during the Chainsaw Sweep and adjusted acceleration time. First change would eliminate The Beast's Marks being an must have Add-On. Second mentioned change is only a fix for a bug that exists since Patch 4.4.0 when The Twins came out. Additionally, The Cannibal would receive slightly increased movement speed during the Chainsaw's cooldown - the same as The Hillbilly. Changes to movement speeds like Tantrum, Revving and mentioned cooldown are just not that important, but these would help in general feeling. The Cannibal since beginning struggles with Bloodpoints in Brutality category, because of his instant down potential - less hits - less Bloodpoints. That's why I would suggest to add new categories that would help him earning more Bloodpoints.
The Cannibal | Common Add-Ons
Chainsaw File
- After triggering a Tantrum, time required to recharge Chainsaw Charge is decreased by 25% for the next 10 seconds.
- Decreases the Chainsaw's noises range by 50%.
Speed Limiter
- Grants 100% Bloodpoints bonus for Chainsaw Hits in Deviousness category.
- Grants 50% Bloodpoints bonus for Chainsaw Hits in Brutality category.
- Chainsaw Hit does not automatically put Survivor into a dying state.
- Increases maximum Chainsaw Sweep duration by 20%.
Long Guide Bar
- Decreases time required to recharge Chainsaw Charge by 20%.
Homemade Muffler
- Increases movement speed while Revving the Chainsaw by 3%.
- Increases movement speed during the Chainsaw's cooldown by 10%.
The Cannibal | Uncommon Add-Ons
Grisly Chains
- Chainsaw Hit causes Survivors to drop their items.
- Dropped Items lose 10% of current charges.
- The Cannibal receives loud notification if Survivor picks up the dropped Item.
Spark Plug
- Survivors hit by Bubba's Chainsaw suffer from Blindness Status Effect for 60 seconds.
- Survivor downed by Bubba's Chainsaw does not show his Aura for 60 seconds.
Vegetable Oil
- Decreases the Chainsaw's cooldown after successful Chainsaw Attack by 25%.
Shop Lubricant
- Decreases the Chainsaw's cooldown after missed Chainsaw Attack by 15%.
Chilli
- Increases the Chainsaw Sweep duration by 0.5 seconds during the last Chainsaw Charge.
The Cannibal | Rare Add-Ons
Begrimed Chains
- Breaking a Pallet with a Chainsaw grants 3% Haste Status Effect for next 10 seconds.
Primer Bulb
- Decreases time required to charge a Chainsaw by 10%.
Knife Scratches
- Increases the Chainsaw Sweep movement speed by 0.5% per each Charge spent.
Light Chassis
- While Revving, reveals Survivors Auras within 10 meters.
- Increases movement speed while Revving the Chainsaw by 1%.
Depth Gauge Rake
- Grants 1 additional Chainsaw Charge.
- Increases time required to charge a Chainsaw by 15%.
- Decreases the Chainsaw Sweep movement speed by 2%.
The Cannibal | Very Rare Add-Ons
Award Winning Chilli
- Increases maximum Chainsaw Sweep duration by 15%.
- Increases time required to reach maximum movement speed during the Chainsaw Dash by 30%.
Rusted Chains
- Successful Chainsaw Hit grants ability to see Survivors Auras within 24 meters for 6 seconds.
Sawyer's Meat
- Successful Chainsaw Hit replenishes all Chainsaw Charges.
- Successful Chainsaw Hit grants 1% Haste Status Effect until the Chainsaw Sweep ends.
The Grease
- Breaking a Pallet with a Chainsaw automatically replenishes 1 Chainsaw Charge.
The Cannibal | Ultra Rare Add-Ons
Carbuetor Tuning Guide
- Automatically consumes all Chainsaw Charges while triggering a Chainsaw Sweep.
- Increases maximum Chainsaw Sweep duration by 0.5 seconds.
- After Breaking a Pallet the recharge speed is increased by 15% for the next 5 seconds.
Iridecent Beast's Marks
- Increases Chainsaw Sweep movement speed by 3%.
- Increases time required to charge a Chainsaw by 18%.
- Increases Tantrum duration by 30%.
That's all what I prepared. Strong base kit, nice and some strong Add-Ons with good variety.
Comments
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A lot of stuff to unpack there, but the main thing I think Bubba needs is his acceleration to max speed be unlinked from both his chainsaw sweep duration and his max chainsaw sweep speed.... at the moment he's too add-on reliant.
Currently his acceleration is defined as 60% (1.5s) of the chainsaw sweep duration (2.5s), and the difference between his slowest chainsaw rev speed (3.45) and max chainsaw speed (5.35). Back when he was a base line 2s duration, this 60% gave him 1.2s to reach max speed, which was then modified by chilli's.
His issue back then was Chilli's required Beast Marks to function on the longer duration, but if you werent taking Chillis's, BM gave you a faster acceleration and allowed other add-on combos. With chilli's now basekit his longer chainsaw sweep at base makes him slower in catching up to survivors after he starts charging his chainsaw than he used to be... and is even more pronounced if you take another chilli add-on... so he's now even more reliant on Beast's Mark's to offset it to function like he did before. I consider the new chilli's add-ons bad now for this very reason.
You also can't really mind game with a quick rev any more cause the 3s duration to tantrum makes it so even a minor sneeze at the chainsaw is building tantrum too quickly.
At the moment I consider Beast Marks (or Scratches on a budget), and long guide bar mandatory on him.
If his time to reach max speed was made 48% (1.2s) of the sweep duration at base however, and both Chilli's and Beast Mark/Scratches moved that 48% up/down relative to how they change his acceleration timings so that everything was consistent, that would fix a lot of his add-on dependency and actually allow us to use his other add-ons.
EDIT: actually made a slight mistake, cause I forgot he was buffed from 5.29 to 5.35m/s on his chainsaw max speed... doesn't change much of my point. But for clarity:
- Old Bubba at base has acceleration of 1.5333m/s² at 60% of sweep duration.
- New Bubba at base has acceleration of 1.2667m/s² at 60% of sweep duration.
- Instead of 48% it should be 49.5% (1.239s) to get the same 1.5333m/s² acceleration on Bubba.
Might as well make it 50% as a slight buff to Bubba isnt a bad thing, then shift it accordingly for Beast Marks/Chilli's
Once that's fixed, carving a place for him in DBD would be much easier...
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
In regards to this suggestion, it is interesting, but there are a lot of big number buffs there I need to crunch to fully understand the picture… but the initial gut feeling is his acceleration looks pretty cracked in this configuration… I'd be a little worried about him becoming rather oppressive at most loops
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yeah no kidding. If they want buff bubba, i suggest buffing forced hensitation perk. the current radius is only 16 meters. Perhaps increasing it to 24 meters would be good. I have been using it on bubba and finding a lot of success with it but the perk is often out of range. Works pretty well with Beast marks and Iri flesh.
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I know all stuff about Bubba, but it's nice to explained it to others!
Currently, Leatherface minimum acceleration is 1.5 seconds and maximum acceleration 1.92 seconds (including Award Winning Chili & Carburetor Tuning Guide). Acceleration thing needs to be changed and bring it back to old form from Patch 4.1.0 - 4.3.0, where he could reach maximum speed constantly after 0.6 seconds.
Here I put old screen of his Acceleration and how should it work.
That's why back in the day his Add-Ons like Chilis & Carburetor Tuning Guide were much better, because they didn't increase acceleration time.
About triggering a Tantrum fast - 3 seconds. It shouldn't work like that. It's a bug or unintended change, because BHVR didn't mention any nerfs for Bubba in Patch 8.0.0. They decreased Tantrum duration and accidentially decreased Overheat Trigger.
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This acceleration was a thing in patches 4.1.0 - 4.3.0 and it wasn't a problem at all. My posts fixed problem with Carburetor Tuning Guide where the current code just destroyed this Add-On, because it counted 60% from the whole Chainsaw Sweep - 7.5 seconds, because with this Add-On you have like one big charge (60% * 7.5 seconds = 4.5 s acceleration time).
He would be strong Killer in chase that still chase many ways to counterplay. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't become boring Killer to play against like Xeno & Chucky.
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It's weird buffing an Killer with buffing Killer perk, but about the perk : Yes they can increase the range a littlt bit, but this perk has much worse problem - even if nobody is nearby - perk still gets a cooldown.
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His old acceleration wasn't an issue before because he was just far slower right? I don't know for sure how'd I'd feel about these changes without seeing them, but this argument I don't think makes sense.
Do you think it might be better to give Bubba some mobility mode instead of just buffing his chase further? I don't really want another oppressive killer in chase, but allowing Bubba to get around might actually help him create and make more use of dead zones he can easily create.0 -
Creating dead zones at current Dead By Daylight is kinda impossible - even with Killers such as Leatherface. Many Pallets on almost every map. With Add-Ons his speed was almost the same - like 0.5% difference so my argument does make sense. Thank you.
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I hope the acceleration bug gets patched, it effectively wastes one of the charges.
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At least they should create a new code or just change the value from 60% to 30%. At least. But it would be nice to just set constant value and Add-Ons wouldn't have impact on acceleration.
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i doubt they're going change acceleration because a big part of leatherface's skill is predicting acceleration ahead of time and knowing where you'll be in the chainsaw 5 second later. removing will make leatherface too easy to use.
Leatherface will never perceived as good enough killer because of perception that you need *cross map mobility to be a good killer. So outside of reworking him to work more like Oni's demon fury in 3rd person, nothing else would give a perceptive elevation in power. Texas Massacre game model for his power works is what BVHR's power for leatherface would have to look like for player to consider Leatherface as good as Billy. Anything else and it is not enough. A change like this was entirely change how leatherface works. He would move slower then Oni, like 135% speed but he'd always have his power up making Oni feel like a inferior version to him. As a result, i don't know if a change like that is in BVHR card deck right now.
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The first part what you wrote doesn't make sense. If they would add new acceleration code - the skill ceiling on this part doesn't change. Bubba will need to know what distance he can make with new acceleration. The same was with new collisions. Many people were saying that Bubba will be easy to use and may be out of control on some loops. But guess what happened? Nothing special. He just doesn't bump on weird collisions and strong Bubbas need to correct their current knowledge and start learning to use new collisions on their advantage.
If for example his Chainsaw Tokens would click themself automatically - that would be bad for example. But not the things we mentioned.
About a second part of you message - I don't like the idea… All I want to make Bubba strong in chase and remove bringing The Beast's Marks everytime and give him some nice new Add-Ons. I don't want to make him A or S tier Killer, becaue it's impossible, but make him stronger in chase and make him more fun to play as.
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i feel like most leatherface player will take lazy route and just do short chainsaws like old leatherface before he got reworked. that is why i said that reducing acceleration will make him less skillful to use.
About a second part of you message - I don't like the idea… All I want to make Bubba strong in chase and remove bringing The Beast's Marks everytime and give him some nice new Add-Ons.
What i am saying is that leatherface chainsaw chase is already very strong. Despite that, no one publicly thinks that Leatherface is a strong killer because average perception believes that only strong killers are killer with extreme map mobility which leatherface does not have.
The same was with new collisions. Many people were saying that Bubba will be easy to use and may be out of control on some loops. But guess what happened? Nothing special.
they did this change to attempt to fix infinities vs leatherface chainsaw on maps like Eyrie crow with those branches/twigs but i think issue is the map geometry itself and not the chainsaw hitbox.
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Interesting, I started playing way later than that point.
I keep informed on DBD history by talking to older players, watching old streams and reading guides and noting how they've changed over the years... but I've not really seen much of Bubba in these history dives, so I've never known Bubba's gameplay during that time...
Based on my experience with Bubba, acceleration makes a big difference in scoring hits. Prior to his buff, what made Beast Marks so good in my experience with him is the fact it not only raises your to speed from 5.29 to 5.41m/s (I think... the 3% I believe is off the standard 4.0m/s movement speed), but it also means your acceleration is faster, since you obviously have to accelerate quicker to reach a higher speed.
Doing a little maths 60% of 2s is 1.2s, so for each scenario:
- 3.45 to 5.29 is an acceleration of 1.5333m/s²
- 3.45 to 5.41 with BM gives 1.6333m/s²
- 3.55 to 5.45 in 0.5s gives 3.8m/s²
On top of the fact you're already moving faster and the start and end... if BM is considered good on old Bubba at 1.6333m/s², 3.8m/s² is more than double that...
I love Bubba, and think he definitely needs some attention... but this set of numbers looks like a hand grenade to me... So while I'm with you I spirit, these numbers look very dangerous to me...
After crunching a lot of numbers, making his time to reach max speed 50% of the sweep duration instead 60% makes him like he was before, but without the acceleration drop caused by chilli's, and seems much more reasonable... though this solution still makes BM ones of his best add-ons, and doesn't fix CTG…
So personally I'd be much more in favour of locking his acceleration at 1.6333m/s² regardless of max speed and add-ons, then we can look at fixing everything else.
But if I'm wrong on anything, do please tell me 😅
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Carburetor Tunning Guide is fixed since Patch 7.1.0. They added specific code for this Add-On, but they didn't touch general acceleration code. This Add-On applies 0.3 seconds acceleration penalty (from 1.5 seconds to 1.8 seconds).
Before 8.0.0 Bubba Buff - The Beast's Marks was increasing movement speed from 5.29 m/s to ~5.45 m/s (aka 136.21%).With The Beast's Marks he could start at 88.83% movement speed and end at 136.21% so he still needed to accelerate 47.37% movement speed in 1.2 seconds. At base kit he needed to accelerate 46% movement speed in 1.2 seconds so speed Add-On didn't make difference if we talk about acceleration.
I recommend to check Bubba's History on Wiki.
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First part just doesn't make sense. Like chasing people with 1 Token and it's lazy or something? I don't get it.
Bubba's Power in chase is decent, but not very strong and requires so much skill to use it properly against better players. Most of Killers that have mobility - in the same time they have better chase power than a Killer that doesn't habe mobility - Spirit / Billy / Blight etc etc.
They did decrease hitbox to navigate easier in tight spaces. And it didn't solve the problem with Eyrie Of Crows and some other hitboxes.
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Wait, the 3% on Beast's Mark's is a multiplier for Bubba's max chainsaw movement speed!?
God damn BHVR, just when I thought I'd gotten used to your movement speed percentages, you sweep the leg again xD
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They usually count from Power Speed - same with Spirit Billy etc etc.
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