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Major Anti Camp buffs are Coming!!!

2

Comments

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,749
    edited September 11

    this might be the worst take i've seen for a while. if killers can hit you in 10 seconds after a 2-3 seconds stun then killers are simply op (or you used ds on edge map and have nothing to work with).

    also, not being able to down a survivor quickly doesn't always have much to do with skill difference. they might have a strong area to use nearby, or it's just a bad decision macro-wise; they are far away from your gens, or they are taking you away so their teammates can reset etc. they baited you with otr and you chase that down, just to eat ds. congrats you lost the match.

  • TheTom20
    TheTom20 Member Posts: 491

    The main reason a lot of people camped in the first lights out was because it was so hard to see an track people so they camped the first person they found as trying to find something else was a nightmare. I remember games were killers could not find anyone all game.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682
    edited September 11

    They will never put a 16 m anticamp and 60 second basekit Borrowed Time into normal mode, stop. These changes are for Lights Out only, because Survivors need the buffs to make it fair. These would be overpowered in normal mode. They're perfectly fine for Lights Out, IMHO, and lowkey still easily can be gotten around and encourage more slugging… which is why I'm kinda skeptical they'll do much to help here. And they sure would not help in main game because again, MORE slugging. Yes you can bring perks to halt that, but do you really think Killers will care? They'll all run slug builds plus Shattered Hope and there goes the entire "force-slug me" plan a SWF might have, period.

    They need to do SOMETHING about tunneling, yes. This isn't the answer. It would in fact be abuseable, we saw what happened in the past.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682
    edited September 11

    This issue was super prominent actually, and it's WHY you only really saw info Killers in Lights Out. Nobody else could find anyone. I am not worried about these changes for Lights Out, I am more worried about Candelabras being apparently, able to hide information like gens from Killers. Why do Survivors need that? What is the point of basekit Residual Manifest? Not only does it seem petty, it's pointless, Killers can still just listen for gens.

    On that note the muffled sounds idea is a bad, bad bad addition, it's already leaked into the main game as a glitch right now with audio. Sounds should be key to Lights Out, why muffle them especially for people who don't play on PC or with headphones? You just made the game impossible for half the playerbase to detect Killer OR Survivor. The only way this could feel fair is if the Candelabras somehow make for areas the Killers can see the Survivors better by using them, making using this item somewhat risky.

    I suppose we will have to see when the mode launches. But I am a little concerned this still won't work.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,115

    This isn't the answer. It would in fact be abuseable, we saw what happened in the past.

    Yes it is the answer if it stops tunneling which it will. there is nothing abusable since from perceptive of survivor, they're just fixing abusable mechanic for killer. the answer to avoid said mechanic is also simple, don't tunnel and don't proxy camp hooks.

  • abyssplayz
    abyssplayz Member Posts: 30

    dummy huntress eliminates the entire chase. i put up 92 ekia's against prestige masters in cod core mode and hc. i'm sorry but put me with huntress and it's game over. i have studied people all my life this game is seriously easy. i was destroying a good swf team. only reason they escaped is cuz i had no perks. my mistake trying hex totems. won't ever touch one again besides plaything thing and that new one where it blocks it

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,866

    The worst part about the Candelabras is they have zero counter play, because survivors can safely place them on the ground next to a generator, and wait for the generator to be 99% before placing the Candelabra on a generator.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682

    I think they may have overbuffed Survivor side just a touch too much this time around. I guess we will have to wait and see. The nice thing though is, apparently they have charges and can be destroyed. If the item is limited and can be removed tactically for good, that is fine. I do want them to be rarer in chests though if they will be this powerful.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,866

    Candelabras can be destroyed if a survivor places them on a generator. But Candelabras can’t be destroyed if a survivor places them on the ground next to a generator.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682

    That is an oversight and should be addressed. I know they get dropped if you down Survs.

    Candelabras for their power should be more fragile.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253

    Where do Killers usually hook Survivors? I'll give you a hint, if they went down, they probably didn't have any pallets or windows, otherwise they woulda used them and not went down. That's right! They usually get hooked in a deadzone! What does that mean : "or … have nothing to work with", it fits that criteria nearly every time. You don't need edge-map also, the deadzone enough removes their chances.

    Now yes, if it was a M1 Killer without Haste/Hinder/Damaging M2, then sure, Trapper and Legion might actually be affected by DS. The problem is you are typically playing an opportunistic playstyle as those Killers (if you want to win), and playing into DS is nearly never opportunistic on those Killers. It is a win as Huntress when they can't Dodge the 8m Hatchet from their 2s stun differential's worth of distance, Demo Shredding ~11m to hit off DS, Wesker Dashing 7m to position and hitting with the 2nd dash, and so on.

    Not being able to down a Survivor quickly doesn't always have much to do with skill difference - I'm sorry, what is the process of determining which actions to take based on their effective outcome called? Y'know, when you uh, kick the gen or chase, pick which Surv to chase, where to chase someone, which side to break the Pallet, whether to fail prey for OTR/DS baits or knowingly kill them in time? You even said it, "it's just a bad decision macro-wise". Would that be… Macro skill? So if that indeed was Macro skill, that would be a skill difference. Huh, neat how that pans out.

  • ponzukun
    ponzukun Member Posts: 31

    It's annoying that the AFC gauge builds up even if you just break the surrounding boards, so I'm going to adopt the knockout perk and leave the downed survivors rolling on the ground.


    I don't like the idea of leaving downed survivors on the ground, but if hanging them on hooks is becoming a fetter, I don't have a choice HAHA

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 11,716

    Do we have an ETA for the return of Lights Out? And, more importantly, will Freddy be playable this time?

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,749

    aren't we talking about tanking a hit with otr? how are you still in the said dead zone after getting hit?

    idk what i should say in response to rest of your reply, you are for some reason just assuming the survivor will just run in a straight line, in an area without a single object. i'm mostly not talking about 2 tap survivors, you can give them 10 seconds ds and they will still go down in seconds.

    Macro skill?

    "skill" in our context clearly was micro skill in a chase.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682

    This Saturday, friend! :D I have no word on if Freddy will be playable, I sure hope they managed to make it work.

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,701

    1 minute of 10% speed and endurance and 32m anticamp range would be extremely silly in the main mode. Its suposed to be a gritty survivor game with party game aspects not a party game with survivor aspects. At that point why even keep trying to remove tunneling or camping without removing tunneling or camping and giving compensatory buffs. Just remove hook timers and give survivors a shared hook pool for 4 and personal hook pool of 2. No one dies before 6 hooks and everyone gets at least 2 hooks minimum unless everyone gets hooked.

    Being able to be "safe" in a game where someone is trying to kill you would just be comedic and the metas following changes like this would not be fun. Trying to remove "tunneling" and "camping" without technically removing them just so you don't have to make up for it by buffing killers is just never gonna work without killing the game or making dbd not a tom and jerry simulator (you can catch the mouse but you can't ever win) Can't wait for the unhook and hide meta because you can no longer put the person you just unhooked in a bad spot anymore and have to be across the entire map or not on a small map with massive self unhook ranges.

    If you want to enjoy a 6 month lifespan before all but top killers quit be my guest but changes like this would put the game on indefinite dlc life support.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 11,716

    This Saturday? Nice! Thanks, my friend!

    I really hope Freddy will be playable this time. Not being able to play him the first time was awful.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,115

    nothing is guaranteed. I am just saying that something that is successful is more likely to re-appear.

    what about it is silly? Otz for example made a video a few days ago talking about hard-tunneling off hook is too effective. 60 second of 10% haste and endurence isn't too far fetched in a world where experienced player like otz agree that something needs to change. Proxy camping is something that is less talked about as problematic however most of the time, tunneling and proxy camping are often lumped into one so it makes sense for them to address the problem together.

    Being able to be "safe" in a game where someone is trying to kill you would just be comedic and the metas following changes like this would not be fun.

    Your safe till you touch a gen. if you touch a gen, the bonuses go away. in practice, you can still be downed but at the same time, people complained about chasing 3% MFT, so if you complain about a small % like MFT, then you definitely are going complain a lot more about chasing 10% haste. Your not really untouchable but in practice, if you play well, it is unlikely the killer will think favourable about chasing you. The killer can still apply pressure to other survivors.

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,701

    Its silly because its short sighted changes, of course they would be easy to implement you could probably do it by changing 3 numbers. But on their own its a massive buff

    Otz agrees to it because otz is near the top of his game of course he doesn't need camping and tunneling to win 98% of his matches against regular players, he even argued that it would be DISABLED in comp matches to let those play out like normal meaning that you also give it to survivors who really don't need it and can and will take advantage of it to win more often. Changes like these should only apply to a casual mode of the game with lessened stakes or with massive changes to the game as a whole not by itself to the regular gamemode and certainly not without hefty counterbalance

    A haste of 10% affects a lot of killers differently, 10s of it is fine because it doesn't really last long enough to matter way too much in how disportunately it affects killers but if it lasts 60s it would need to be something dynamic to make up for the fact you can loop a ranged killer faster than they can loop due to hitbox size

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,115

    Or you could just not tunnel with said ranged killer. the anti-tunnel changes are not there for you to ignore them and just tunnel anyway like they are in base mode. they're meant for you to respect them and actively go for other players…………

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682
    edited September 12

    This entire argument is silly and the OP of this clickbaity thread is wrong because the whole argument that these changes are coming and needed are negated by one little fact from the start: That these changes are ONLY a whacky buff meant for a single mode. Just like every other wacky change from every other mode. Did any of the other mode or modifier changes come permanently to live? No? Then why would these?

    In live, we don't have 2v8 cages or teleporting hooks. We don't have the massive boosts and buffs we got in Masquerade either side and we don't, thank Entity, have remote hooking in live either. In the future during Blood Moon, we likely won't have permanent Blood Zones in the regular game - only the event queue - and we don't have an item that makes the Killer huge and the Survivors small in pubs either like in MLO. We also probably won't have any of the Bone Chill or Haunted by Daylight things outside of the event queues aside from bonus points, and I think everyone reasonably knows this. Literally not one singular gameplay twist from any event or modifier has ever, ever come to Live in any capacity or any way and probably never will because by nature, they're meant to be wacky unbalanced unique changes to make the special modes special.

    So why do people think it's gonna be different with Lights Out? We are not ever going to have 60 second endurance, 20% repair buff, and a doubled AFC in the main game. Ever. Because those are not balanced for the main game… they are, however, for the originally Killer-sided 2v8, you know why?

    Because Survivors need them in Lights Out, but NOT in the regular game mode.

    This is because there's already a plethora of perks, items, and addons (weak or not it really doesn't matter as long as they exist for use) in the main mode to fix the issues these address. That and many of those things, particularly the perks, are about to be massively shaken up soon on both sides; modifiers have a history of getting wacky and their changes basically never go anywhere but the modes period. The only way these changes coming live could ever be even REMOTELY fair to the vast majority of Killers, who are simply trying to play the game as intended, is if we also brought something like Remote Hooking or an equivalent change that benefits them to Live, at which point the base game wouldn't even be the base game anymore, but a bloated mess of conditionals and frankly, unnecessary cruft gimmick mechanics. Is that really, REALLY what we want?

    The simple fact is that messing around with the original formula in the pursuit of "perfect" is the mortal enemy of the "good" that is already in the base game, and people who just want a pure experience without shenanigans would leave if it happened - the very people who basically pay BHVR's bills and make this game exist. Some people, in fact I'd wager most people, JUST want to play basic DBD with maybe a little occasional modifier every now and then as a twist to the routine. Between that and the glitchiness these modes sometimes add, no wacky modifier changes, however fun or helpful, can therefore ever feasibly come live; even something like basekit softer sounds for everyone on both sides would be much too unbalanced to bring live with perks on top of it all, as we can already see with the audio bugs alone. Let's not even pretend it wouldn't be broken as all hell to bring ANYTHING from a modifier to the base game, because it so obviously would and so obviously is.

    Now let's please all stop huffing copium and asking for ridiculous, obviously unbalanced and even somewhat unfun things used ONLY IN MODIFIERS that make sense ONLY IN MODIFIERS to even the score, to be put into live. It's as dumb to ask for these to be in the base game as it was for Killers who wanted remote hooks to become part of the base game. Put on the perks and wait for BHVR to do an actual solution because these changes are never, ever coming to live. It's just not happening. Let it go.

    Post edited by GonnaBlameTheMovies on
  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,701

    Disproportionate changes are good because ranged killers extra deserve to not be able to even fathom tunneling especially since its even stronger on maps that have poor los so they can double not play the game twice as fast.

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,701
    edited September 12

    fat fingered the enter button

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,115

    99% of killer are going have trouble chasing a survivor with 10% haste. like i said, the bonus is not there for you to ignore it and tunnel anyway. your meant to respect it and go for other players. this is large reason why normal mode anti-tunnel/anti-proxy camp don't work as well. you can actively ignore it and just do action anyway which is why these strategy are so effective. Now you'll see when said mechanics actively work properly.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682
    edited September 12

    They feasibly cannot give Survivors 10% more haste, where did that even come from? I didn't see that anywhere in any information for this mode and Endurance by definition is not Haste. Being hit like this wouldn't give you more haste than you normally get, period. You are asking for unfair buffs that would be a problem for almost the entire roster and thus, would actually kill the game because nobody can play anything but Blight and Nurse.

    Sorry, Charlie. Survivors aren't intended by the game's design to be able to forever loop OR be totally safe after just getting off the hook. Survivors are meant to eventually go down and die. Sometimes they go down again not long after getting off hook even if the Killer doesn't camp or tunnel ANYONE, it just happens. Killers are meant to hook Survivors AND deserve to be allowed to have feasible time and range to do things before being punished for camping when they aren't camping and are on their way out to chase more. Just like Survivors deserve the ACTUAL solution to tunnelling being something like… I dunno, better antitunnel perks, better tools, or the devs giving Killers more ways to win than just slaughtering everyone all of which are healthier for the game.

    This ain't coming to live because of your exact first sentence: 99% of Killers CANNOT handle Survs going the same speed as them, it just would not be fair.

    Your Survivor Main bias is heavily showing in this thread, as is a weirdly vehement hatred of Killers for some reason. Why do you hate Killer players so much, you want things from a mode that would definitely be unbalanced and detrimental to game health to include?

    Why on earth do you want to make Killer so, so, so so so impossibly hard that they now can't hook, can't do anything even if chasing without Survs getting a free unhook AND a minute of endurance with it, can't slug, can't camp, can't tunnel, can't do anything, and thus have no way to pressure? Because that is, exactly, and directly, what all of your posts here have been asking. Every single one.

    I had no idea the entitlement of some players was this bad.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682

    I also want to make one more comment here before I leave this disaster zone of a thread asking for unreasonably strong buffs from a MODE to come to live.

    Did we all forget that the AFC also pauses if Survivors are anywhere in range of a hooked Survivor? That means bad actors can sandbag their teams this way. If you double the AFC enough, that means the Survivor on hook functionally never gets to benefit, because according to the game, the Killer is not only always camping but the Survivors are always in range to save, so the meter pauses. That would just be like we had before when there WAS no anticamp.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 9,115
    edited September 12

    I didn't see that anywhere in any information for this mode and Endurance by definition is not Haste.

    Do you understand how borrow time works after being unhooked? You currently gain 10 second of endurance and 10% haste. They're changing that to 60 second of endurance and haste. that is what it says. This is disabled upon doing conspicuous action.

    The anti-proximity mechanic radius is being doubled from what i think is 16 meter to 32 meters. in practice, there is degrading distance between being close and far from hook so i'd say it is around 24 meters.

    Sometimes they go down again not long after getting off hook even if the Killer doesn't camp or tunnel ANYONE, it just happens.

    It just happens… right. Sometimes they go down? yeah i don't think killer is accidentally camping or tunneling. /shrug.

    Just like Survivors deserve the ACTUAL solution to tunnelling being something like

    This is actual solution. your complaining about actual solution.

    Why on earth do you want to make Killer so, so, so so so impossibly hard that they now can't hook,

    who said anything about being unable to hook? the changes are related to making tunneling less efficient and proxy-camping less efficient. your going to need to play differently then your usual strategies to get the W.

  • Bookern
    Bookern Member Posts: 350

    Those survivor buffs are foul killer gets undetectable but no slowdowns but survivors get a 5% headstart and 20% faster repair speeds i can just tell Killers are gonna avoid this mode what a nightmare enjoy the 15 minutes queue times survs.

    Overkill buffs

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,866

    Does this mean we can ask for the “zero terror radius” feature of Light’s Out, to be in the main game mode?

    Because this whole forums thread looks like it’s claiming “if it’s in Light’s Out, then it might later be in the main game mode”

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,701
    edited September 12

    Bold of you to assume im gonna play lights out and "see it work properly" thankfully I can probably manage a 10% haste whenever I feel like it as blight and people will stop bringing off the record and ds because they would feel safer than ever, the anti-camp and anti-tunnel update is gonna be no tunneling for thee but for me

  • caipt
    caipt Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 696

    Except you can get to any loop you like after being unhooked since you get a protected 44m radius from the hook to travel, or the killer hits you and you get even more range. It doesnt matter if the survivor got downed in or out of a deadzone, because they will always find their way out of it. Then they'll go down at whatever loop they ended up at, ds, and continue on. This is coming from my experience using the perk as well as hypotheticals.

  • totallynotamegmain
    totallynotamegmain Member Posts: 658

    yes, I also want giant killers than insta mori survivors in the base game /s

  • hatchetChugger
    hatchetChugger Member Posts: 442

    Body blocking isnt the issue. The issue is that they can be fully healed and you have no way of knowing they have endurance still. Its also prettyy ridiculous If youre playing an insta down killer, like bubba or billy, and getting screwed over because you had no way of knowing they were invincible.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682

    WHERE does it say Survivors get a 10% Haste boost… anywhere in the new Lights Out rules? I don't see that anywhere. Did I miss something or are we arguing hypotheticals again?

    Done arguing with you, Devil_hit, you're obviously just looking for ways to make the game impossible for everyone but the toppest of tier Killers. Enjoy only playing Nurse and Blight forever or mobility Killers forever if your suggested, ridiculous, overkill changes come to live. Which they won't, because the developers are sane.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,749

    "tanking" a hit with otr, so the 90% (lol) of cases isn't the topic at hand.

    idk why would it would matter whether it's macro or micro but i'll go along. you said you deserve to lose if you play worse than your opponent, when we were talking about a situation where a survivor "opens them up for tunneling". so playing better, having better macro skill would be leaving them if they are in a strong area, and this means they get away with tanking a hit with otr, and in fact not opening themselves up for tunneling. and this means you contradict with yourself, the hittank is free and the skillful play from the killer can be leaving them and letting them get away with it.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,644

    OTR is less of a problem because it requires a perk slot to use.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,644

    And yet they buff survivor repair speed to compensate for killers not having gen defense? Makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

  • TieBreaker
    TieBreaker Member Posts: 995

    The game is assymetric. Some things in the game are correlated, others not so much.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682
    edited September 12

    That just makes no sense. Why weaken the Killer's goal of buying time by protecting gens to kill Survivors, but buff the Survivor's goal of doing them faster?

    In a 1v4, the 1 HAS TO be stronger than the 4. Period, end of. This makes the 1 weaker than the 4.

  • TieBreaker
    TieBreaker Member Posts: 995

    I can only assume that BHVR looked at the results of the last Light's Out, and have made some tweaks to try and balance the game out. There are dynamics in the match other than gen progress. But only BHVR has that data, so I can only speculate.

  • GonnaBlameTheMovies
    GonnaBlameTheMovies Member Posts: 682

    They did do that, the problem is I think they may have slightly overbuffed in the other direction.

    "Please play our Mode, Survivors. Look, you can be superpowered now!"

  • TieBreaker
    TieBreaker Member Posts: 995

    It's fair to say that BHVR sometimes overcorrects when trying to fix problems. Can't deny that. Getting hard tunneled when you can't even see where anything is, caused problems with the mode's first iteration. They have have attempted to fix that.

    The gen progress buff and the new item must mean that survivors were losing a lot of time locating gens. So the devs are hoping this balances things out. Time will tell I suppose.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253

    Is a Survivor invisible, silent, no scratch marks nor blood off hook? Huntress can simply land the hatchet 0.1s after they get unhooked? So they don't get 44m for free, they get 0m for free. Now I would 100% agree and be with you if they made Survivors invisible and invulnerable for 10s off hook, but this isn't the case. So Huntress hits off hook, but we'll be generous and say 1s, so ~4.5m, then speed boost for ~13.5m, meanwhile the Huntress moved 1s of windup and 2s of cooldown for ~10.5m. She is only 7.5m away, which is also roughly 2s DS stun distance, and thus gets downed. You aren't making it out anywhere.

    If someone is turbo tunneling someone else with OTR, they still tanked an OTR hit. I would ask you be more specific when describing scenarios, because you appear to create a vast story in your mind, and say 'blue' expecting everyone to know specifically what you are envisioning. You define hit tank far far differently than I would, so if you could offer a Dictionary of 'NerfDHalready' it would be greatly appreciated.

    I can't argue against redefinitions like this, because I can't read your mind. But wouldn't 'opens them up for tunneling' definitionally make them not be in a strong area? The idea is say you come back to Shack basement, and you hit both running up the stairs with effective bodyblocks, then you can tunnel the OTR user, or chase the rescuer. Alternatively, you arrive late, and the OTR user is blocking the doorframe to protect the other person leaving through the pallet. You can still just hit the OTR doorframe and get a chase there. I'm confused where apparently someone is crossmapping 20s to interrupt a chase that somehow isn't leading to a down already, and still not securing a down after the hit. Every time this happens to me, either the next person is getting downed already, making them waste their time, or the OTR hit just wastes another 12s since the other person is still cornered at a loop due to how I set myself up.

  • jmwjmw27
    jmwjmw27 Member Posts: 515

    Simple fix: Survivors with endurance from OTR, BT, and basekit also receive no collision with the killer for the duration.

    This would make bodyblocking with it nearly impossible. There is no downside unless you are trying to bodyblock the unhooked survivor to wait out BT.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,644

    While i agree with your general premise that it is too much, i disagree with the idea that the 1 has to be stronger than the 4. The 1 should be equal to the 4, in the sense that, in a 1v1 situation, the killer should have the advantage because the 1 should be stronger than 1 of the 4.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,749

    it's more so you are stuck in semantics. what could i mean by hittank in relation to your older reply? you said bodyblocking with otr opens up a tunnel. obviously i also meant that, bodyblocking for someone else.

    you argue bodyblocking for someone else with otr has some kind of downside to it but there is not, that's the whole point i'm making. the argument of "opening themselves up for a tunnel" doesn't make sense because it just makes the killer decide to tunnel instead. i then proceeded to say forcing the killer into making that decision might be beneficial for the survivor with the correct set up (perks and all that macro skill talk). so the killer either commits to the bad decision that's tunneling or eat the bodyblock and leave them be.

    here, i explained the concept of offensive use of otr and how that doesn't mean giving a free tunneled dead survivor on the spot.