so should we expect plague/cenobite nerfs now?

realistically the only thing that should get a change on plague is black incense her kit is completely fine

Yes it was even nerfed in the past but it’s still too much imo

She got nerfed because survivors gave up against her which resulted in a high killrate. The developers want to make her weak so nobody plays her and nobody has to face her until her rework (the date is still unknown). Players don't give up against these two as often as Skull Merchant. It is similar to other killers.

I wish the developers would nerf these two killer and then buff them in the right direction:

• Pinhead: Nerf his box in that way that he has no longer an unfair advantage against SoloQ (e.g. let survivors see the aura of other survivors when they in range of 10meters around the box and let us see the aura of the survivor who holds the box. A quick message like "I go for the box" would be the best). His Box spawn logic should also become more random, so it is impossible for the Pinhead player to get an idea of where the Box could spawn. Nerf his Original Pain Addon so it no longer enables easy tunnling. Buff his chains by giving him a better slowdown on the survivors and that he can no longer break his own chains with his body. They could also become easier to use for console players. The chain cooldown could also be reduced. Some Addons should also get a rework but since it is only a tweak, I highly doubt they will do Addon reworks.
• Plague: Rework her Iridecent Seal Addon, make her Fountain spawns better (or at least make it so that the default one always spawns in the middle of the map), and give her two Fountains default (make yellow Apple Addon basekit and then rework this one). Also reduce her whisper VFX because this is really annyoing. Otherwise, Plague is mostly fine. She is one of the most balanced killers in the game. A unique chase music would also be great to hear. Fixing panthom hits would also be nice but this is difficult because it is ping/server depending.

Reading carefully or at least asking what I mean would be helpful. I know that survivors can see the aura of the box. I mean when a survivor is within 10meters of the Box, the other survivors see the aura of this survivor that is within that range. This would at least tell the other survivors a bit sooner that someone is already going for the Box. The biggest issue in SoloQ is this box and the fear that no one will solve the box in time. Therefore, there need to be a feature that gives the survivors the security someone goes for the box. A quick message option would be the best but I highly doubt it.

Honestly Bhvr could turn Plague into an M1 Killer with no power and I’d still play as her. She’s just way way too cool to not use.

No, this makes too much sense. It's more likely that people are coming home from their 9-5, spending time with their families, and then in the hour or two they have for gaming, they hop on DbD with the sole intent to quit matches in order to get a killer nerfed.

I dont believe that to be true. You lose 20 seconds on your power even if you collect it from a fountain regardless if you lose a gen, but you still have to lose a whole gen for it to take effect. I'd say that is a huge cost.

Eh. In practice, it feels like getting it for free. Yes, gens being done means survivors are progressing their objective, but it's a rare game where you don't lose any gens, and you save a lot of time when you get a Corrupt Purge without having to detour. Of course, sometimes it's wasted and two gens pop in succession, or it procs at a time you didn't want it and don't have any targets. Which is why her one yellow addon that decreases the amount of pools available is so unbelievably bad. But in practice, it's quite strong, turns a race to a nearly completed gen into a win-win (either you stop it or you have your power on the fleeing survivors), combos extremely well with perks like Bitter Murmur, and you get an average of 3-5 more Corrupt Purges than you usually would. That is strong.

The tradeoff is that Corrupt Purge lasts for less time, so you're unlikely to manage multiple downs with it unless you got lucky and caught two survivors together at the start. Personally I think Black Incense is the stronger iri addon.

You can't really compare SM to any other killer when it comes to being reworked. No killer has ever generated that much hostility from the playerbase. She is special in that way.

If Pinhead's kill rate is too high, it's because he's hard for solo teams to deal with. All BHVR has to do is weaken the box, and make his chase power better. That would keep him strong, but less oppressive for solo players, and without ruining him.

I don't see Plague getting changed much. She's one of the most unique killers in the game, and is well balanced. Being extremely strong, but not at the level of say Billy or Nurse. There's no incentive for BHVR to change her much.

1 Million percent yes! I believe it is a knowledge issue. But also, an issue with impatience. The teams that do best against me are the teams that play very meticulous, careful and patient. I believe the patience part is where most people are going wrong against her. At least that’s my experience playing against Survivors.

What Survivors who are inexperienced against her go wrong is that they don’t know how OP cleansing is. You can force her to waste time by making her hit you without infection. Get infected then go heal a free health state.

Yeah! People can get free heals off the hook by touching a sick gen and cleansing (and it's not uncommon for people to be uninfected if you just had a Corrupt Purge spree.) Playing Plague is practically guaranteeing everyone who isn't in chase with you gets an Adrenaline pop at the end of the game - survivors can heal almost whenever they want. And coordinated cleanse teams can destroy you. You can go from having 2 fountains and everyone infected to no fountains and everyone healthy, and all you get out of it is a Corrupt Purge with a vague idea of where someone might be if you saw the last fountain disappear (and weren't spinning around in panic when the fountains start flying, like I usually do.)

And I have the hardest time with survivors who I'm trying to fully infect, and instead of weaving around obstacles, they bullrush me and start spinning around me in circles. Instant L. Can't deal with that camera frippery, have to take the M1 and deal with the distance.

These are things you don't need to be in a SWF to pull off, you just need to know about them. But people seem to struggle counterplaying Plague because it's a bunch of "if the game state is this, do this" rules instead of a simple mandate like "never cleanse."

This, this is nice. This Plague talk. It’s very refreshing ;)

Playing Plague is practically guaranteeing everyone who isn't in chase with you gets an Adrenaline pop at the end of the game - survivors can heal almost whenever they want.

Yes big time. End game is more difficult for her definitely.

You can go from having 2 fountains and everyone infected to no fountains and everyone healthy, and all you get out of it is a Corrupt Purge with a vague idea of where someone might be if you saw the last fountain disappear

Mhm yup. The teams that commit to staying cleansed usually do pretty well.

And I have the hardest time with survivors who I'm trying to fully infect, and instead of weaving around obstacles, they bullrush me and start spinning around me in circles. Instant L. Can't deal with that camera frippery, have to take the M1 and deal with the distance.

🤭 I know exactly what you’re talking about.

These are things you don't need to be in a SWF to pull off, you just need to know about them. But people seem to struggle counterplaying Plague because it's a bunch of "if the game state is this, do this" rules instead of a simple mandate like "never cleanse."

You’re right. The counter play is like one step too much. Which is too bad because I love playing against Survivors that know how to play against her.

Have you ever noticed or experienced “pandemic” waves? Where you cause a huge mass infection, you get a lot of corrupt, the infection dies off, and you finally run out of corrupt ready to start the “wave” over? Some games I can get about two waves, sometimes three. It’s so thrilling and fast paced. I can’t get enough lol.

One of my favorite things about playing Plague is this trance you get into where you become highly efficient at corrupt fountain pathing. It feels like I’m performing forbidden sacred geometry over the map like a spell or something lol. I was so fascinated with this feeling/concept that I created a build around it. Batteries included is the anchor perk that the build is made around. The build is Batteries Included, Fire Up, Thanatophobia, and Noed.

It’s meant to make her more…idk…demonic as the ritual, I’m sorry trial, goes on. She’s usually weak at end game but this build kind of turns that on its head. I call this build The Apocalypse 💀

I'd agree with that... but they didn't change anything. They just hard nerfed everything. She actually WAS changed afew times and it didn't stop people from complaining about things that wasn't even relevant alot of the time.

The last time BHVR looked at Plague, she got some of her best addons heavily nerfed. They’ll probably do this again.

But what Plague really needs, is for fully infected survivors to have some other downside, to encourage survivors to actually cleanse. The fountains are supposed to be a minor form of slowdown, where infected survivors spend time to cleanse themselves, but very often the survivors decide to just run around fully infected and broken, for very large portions of the game.

That comment made my day

I wouldn't put it past them to find something.

Plague talk! From one Adiris afficionado to another. I love it.

Yeah, I'm really prone to that. I have a particular… game plan, I suppose, that ticks me to try and hook 3-4 different survivors before I start using my fountains (good opportunities notwithstanding), and unless I have a team of Nurgle worshippers, I'll usually be nearing my fountain limit by the time I start going for it. Between that and the sick unhooks after I mow people down, after 2 or 3 Corrupts, they've been reset and everyone's healthy, so I have to go infect everyone all over again. I always thought that was poor game management on my part, but at the same time, I rarely struggle with it, it takes a coordinated team to truly capitalize on this - and there's benefits to infecting everyone again, because spreading it via gens and unhooks gives you excellent information on where survivors are. Usually it's two waves for me; they have to be insane cleansers to get three.

That's largely because of my build - it's been shaken up by some of the semi-recent perk nerfs (rip STBFL, you are missed), but my mainstay is Plaything. God, I love Plaything on Plague. It does everything. It encourages cleanses, it gives you easy hits on one-taps, and it deals with the problem that survivors get really skittish once you activate Corrupt Purge. Can't flee at the first sound of a terror radius if I don't have one. Add in Discordance so you can go "target acquired" and you can pull off a lot of ambushes. She can make good use of most Undetectable perks, I've even played with Dark Devotion and it's very fun (though I think other killers can use it slightly better), but Plaything's become my mainstay.

Ooh, the themes. Loving the Apocalypse Build… Thana was made for her (and it's another way to force people to cleanse) and I love Fire Up and Batteries Included on principle, but NOED is hilarious as an uno reverse card after everyone cleanses, and helpfully reveals their last known location, at the endgame. You thought you were safe… but the gods demand their sacrifice.

Glad to be of service!

Hopefully my fellow Freddy players got the message.

This