The new kill rate goal being minimum 62% until maximum 65% is far too high

Did they devs state they wanted killrates higher than 60% now?

Google search isn't giving me a video on this, just all people talking about the update.

If anyone has a source I'd like to see what they said on this.

they said minimum 60%, over 65% is too high. They aim for 62% presumably so that they comfortably remain over 60%

Currently combing the video in search of this, but it may take me awhile due to being busy on and off.

I will say, if a killrate on a killer is sitting at 65%, I do think that's too high myself and I also can understand the nuances as to why that is. Some killers being changed frequently so people play against them like their old versions, PUB stomping, etc etc with no real way for survivors to easily access information on them to learn to counter them better. It's why in the past I suggested categorizing it all in an easy to find tab in the character select screen that can have a red ! every time they get changed.

That said, if the target is 60%, it's going to be tough in a game like this to keep it at exactly 60% across all killers without unfairly nerfing them. I mean, just look at the SM backlash right now as proof of that and she's sitting at 70%. I think the better spots would be roughly around 59%-62% if accounting for every possible scenario, without leaving the killer in a state that feels like it's missing half it's power.

Problem with that is this game is far too nuanced to be around a 55% mark. It's also why it can't be around 50%, due to the nature of it being a 1v4. The 1 still needs some power over the 4, and it's pretty evident when you face a lot of good players at higher MMRs. People like to think it's a 1v1v1v1v1, but ever since SWF was introduced (in my experience) it really has geared towards the 1v4 aspect, and really BHVR should make changes to embrace that and give SoloQ tools to play less selfish and assist their team without giving SWF even more ammo.

Think about how nurse sits so low despite being the top tier killer. As well as SoloQ and SWF differences, map variations, killer power variations, perks and how often survivors bring them, that sort of thing. We also have to keep in mind how many survivors there are in lower tiers dying left and right because they don't understand all the different things in the game nor have immediate access to better perks. I even saw a post somewhere asking if a Myers was hacking because he was able to straight up kill people not knowing about Tombstone. It's also why I think Freddy has a higher killrate despite being one of the worst killers, I sure remember going against my first Freddy and having no idea what was going on at the time. That said, a 58% mark wouldn't be a bad compromise either, but the other issue is varying killer power. Weaker killers will suffer from any wide nerfs more than the stronger ones.

I still think at this point in the game, having a compendium covering every killer, their power, perk, addon and gameplay tips provided by, say, the Fog Whisperers or the community even would be a better step toward bridging some of the gaps. A lot of newer players don't even read patch notes or understand the changes and how they effect the killer or perk. With a compendium being updated every new chapter or change, it could help at least cover some knowledge gaps.

Pretty much add this to what I said as well. It's why I hesitate going any further below 58% in killrates, especially for the weaker killers on the roster.

At 20:00-20:40, the developer states that they aim for 62.5% kill-rate to 65% kill-rate with minimum threshold of 60%. Skull merchant is said to have 72% kill-rate and when account for first hook death which i am curious to how they calculate this because a player can "give up" in the a game on 5 minutes into the match on 2nd hook but any case, he says that that she has 3% first hook death ratio accounting for 69% kill-rate which is too high. as someone that plays a lot of skull merchant, i can say for sure that the amount of time that people disconnect or kill themselves on hook is a lot higher. If i had to wager what her true kill-rate is without survivors giving up, i'd say it around ~62-64%. The changes that they're doing are by not mean small and are true gutting of her kit and the killer itself. that's ok because the ######### on hook stuff has to go down anyway but hopefully the rework that seems to be implied to be around Mid-next year will be some refreshing changes.

Billy he says has 68% or 69%. He also stated twin's win-rate but i skimmed over what he said. All i remember is that he said that Twins is labelled as weak but stats are very high(maybe because only playing twin are twin 1 tricks). For reference, Twin is strong but their play-style, slugging is not very strong. it is very tedious to play as and SWF tend to counter the play-style very harshly where it takes full 4 minutes to bleed out to win which very long but vs soloq, you are very likely to slug entire team because of poor play.

55% was lowest he suggested and 60% highest. So average of 57,5% kill rate. I think that would be the most healthy for the game. As now we can see with 60% kill rate big part of playerbase is having bad time soloQ. So I think 62% kill rate will be too high, especially considering last time I saw kill rates, average was 59%.

So I would lower the kill rate down to 57-58% by solely doing buffs that benefit soloQ survivors. Kindred basekit and seeing the anticamping progress would be good start.

i think 60% KR is pretty kinda low. i can only speak my own opinion when i play killer but i don't consider 0, 1k and 2k as wins as killer. i consider them as losses. I also don't sugar coat my losses or down-play my failures as killer player. a lot of player do like they'll say 2k is a draw, which i just see as downplaying losses which is fine if it makes you feel better.

I agree with his analysis that 65% is sweet spot for killer kill-rates.

Vecna here shows what is close to 65% kill-rate. 38.76+19.88 is 58.64%. i would aim for 60% win-rate for killer so it would be around 66% or 67%. I think most killer generally content with that type of win-rate if they one-trick the killer or have lot of gameplay experience with said killer.

Most killer are nowhere near that. as a result, the game is primarily considered survivor sided for most killers unless your like a new survivor player. you can look at ghostface's stat distribution.

he is nowhere near 60% and win-rate is like 45%. keep in mind, these all small sample sizes and not actual defined kill-rates. I do not think that it is realistic to expect every killer to be strong numerically but i think most important part about killers is them feeling good to play. If your having fun with a killer, you won't mind losing games as much because the killer is fun to play. a lot of these killer with disastrous stats don't really feel that fun or special to play. as a result, there isn't a whole reason to go out of your way to play a lot of weaker killers to lose.

I think the main conclusion I draw from this is BHVR shouldn't go above the 60% KR range, but also don't just gut killer powers like SM's.

I love playing as current skull merchant but i don't enjoy having to skip 1/3 of my games for d/c/give up ######### on hook. gutted skull merchant is not going to be fun to play for killer because the main appeal for skull merchant was the long over-time haste effect for landing successful claw traps onto the survivor. reaping said reward by chasing other survivors then ambushing the survivor with claw trap as it expires. Unfortunately survivor d/c vs the killer so it is whatever at this point.

Know what, that's actually really interesting statistics.

I think you're right about the numbers, I'll probably go over some other data points and see if this holds up with some other killers.

Killer: power role

Survivor: not power role.

Killer should have a higher kill rate solely because they are supposed to be powerful

Then you do not play enough of the weaker Killers to realize why a 55-60% Killrate won't work. It has to be higher, a 62.5%, to even get a 2k or higher. Just a draw or higher. No Killer I know sees a draw as a win.

If Killrates need to be a whopping 62-65% to simply DRAW against decent Survivors, what does that tell you? Not that Killers need nerfs because they are too strong, but that Survivor perks and items are what need massive nerfs.

And that's pretty much what BHVR is doing here.

If you have to win as Survivor a lot to have fun, you probably are taking Survivor too seriously. Take off the Meta perks and learn the new maps like everyone else has to.

Then you are and forever will be part of the problem. Because Killers only put those on because they feel they need them to deal with SURVIVOR meta.

If you want less sweaty games, take off the meta perks, play silly with a SWF, and forget about winning. That's what every single Killer eventually has to do when the game is too hard. Why wouldn't it be the same for Survivors? If your games are sweaty the common denominator isn't "every Killer sweats". It's you.

YOU are the only one who controls YOUR games. Which is something everyone has to deal with eventually. If you want less sweat, it has to start with you. Change YOUR mindset. You will never change others.

Nice edit btw. My math is what the Devs have stated they want. You can accept it or move on. But my math isn't incorrect just because YOU think the game should work how YOU want it to. If the game is no longer for you I promise there are x4 more Survivors ready and willing to accept these stats and take your place. Myself included.

Why do killers need almost a 60% win rate defined as 3 kills or above. Just another example how killer has become the "easy mode" role in this game. Also how is 2 kills not a draw. Like 2 escapes is literally a draw for both sides if you are thinking of the survivor side as a team game. (Since I play solo que I consider if only I escape as a win for myself still but I know a lot of survivor players don't think that way. )

That's not what I'm saying at all. I don't even think killers should not be the "power role" and I am fine with the killer side having the higher winrate. I just think the kill rate has gotten a bit too high for the health of the game, just a bit, especially because the killer role is so much easier for new players than the survivor role. I think it is evident that things have just gone a bit too far to one side when you consider things like how the amount of survivors giving up keeps rising.

I actually think a lot of people look at that issue in the wrong way incedentally. A lot of mainly killer players view it as an issue of "survivor entitlement," but I think its actually become more of an "escape valve" at this point. It allows Bhvr. to keep kill rates higher than is palpatable for most survivor players, but because they know they have the option to "go next" if the match is boring enough they don' t actually just stop playing the game. If Bhvr. took out the ability to do this, as many in the forums want, they would have to actually work a little harder to balance the game in a way that keeps both sides happy. For example, while I don't know what exactly the kill rates in the 2 v. 8 were, they were obviously lower than in the base game. Because it is so much harder to "go next" in that mode, I believe if the kill rates were as high in that mode as in the base game a lot of survivor players would have stopped playing it.

the vast majority of killer have below 60% kill-rate with many killers having a much lower win-rate then 50%. the stats don't suggest that that killer is easy mode. if anything, they seem suggest that killer is harder than it has ever been before.

How funny. You keep putting words in mine. Twisting mine.

You have not once even tried to explain why you think ANYTHING less than 60/40 in an assym is fair. You have ignored my stats. You have insulted me on these forums multiple times. You keep falsely calling Killer easy mode. You point out how Pity-Poor-Me Survivors have it, but never once spare a thought for Killers that are weaker than a B tier, who definitely do not have killrates of 60% and can often still struggle. You keep falsely saying Survivors have nothing when actually they currently have TOO MUCH gen control, and still have too many maps that favor them more than Killer gets. Killers have like one map that favors them now, Survivors still have several. Killers have their gen perks gutted because some, not even all, but SOME Killers could 3gen easily in the past, but Survivors get needlessly MORE generator perk buffs. And you continuously like to pretend that SoloQ is languishing so hard, when actually the escape rates for SoloQ are pretty close to SWF at all levels of MMR - so you like to skew statistics, too.

Please just stop. We get it. You're a Survivor-only Main who wants Killers to struggle and never win rounds so you can get an assured out half the time. It's alright to admit this. Just admit your biases. It's OK to do that. Please just say what you mean, or I and others will be forced to assume you're desperately trying to return this game to 2019, when Survivors had a million broken things and you could get free outs with a DH so Killers couldn't even lunge. Just admit you think things like endgame DS and old MFT were fair. It would literally explain everything.

I used to play killer and survivor about equally ( in fact when I started I only played killer.) I have just gradually played killer less over time because I tend to want to challenge myself more, and I don't think even you would argue that solo que survivor is not the harder role, would you?

I started posting on these forums just because I see a lot of fallacious arguments and it seems like those on the killer side tend to dominate the discussion so I wanted to balance it out a bit. When I say I think the kill rate has gotten too high I am saying by like a few percentage points, you are acting like I said I think kill rates should go under 50%. And like I said before I am mainly thinking of new players when I say this. Like over time I have gotten into a higher mmr where I escape a lot more but I still remember when I was stuck in mmr hell when I started playing survivor and barely ever escaped and I just think such an unbalanced experience for new players is not the best.

I will say the one thing that probably originally drove me to start posting here was when for awhile every killer was running frank n' weave, an absolutely broken combo but then every killer main flooded the echo chamber in here saying it was perfectly fine and fair and balanced, and that's when I realized the other side needed to be represented more.

So then play a weaker Killer with non-meta perks instead of demanding unfair Killer nerfs because you want "a challenge" in a casual tag game at the expense of everyone else who just wants a game. It's actually kind of sad you take the game this seriously. There's no chance in Hell you have played Killer very long if you really think the game is so "easy" for Killers; either that or you mained strong ones. Shouldn't you then, if you like challenge so much, be happy Survivor isn't easy mode like this?

Thank everything you don't decide anything about game balance. You'd kill the game.

I think we're done here. Trying to get you to understand basic statistics and game balance feels like talking to a brick wall.