2v1 as Killer when survs hide- Lengthy read
I played a game where there was three gens left with two survivors hiding after the third died on hook cause they did not rescue. I had a totem build cause of a challenge: devour, undying, haunted grounds, and languid. They did nothing- no gens, no cleansing, no scratch marks. Nada. I literally sat in the corner of the map afk cause I spent a good five minutes trying to find the last two survivors. I could not.
I was not gonna dc cause I worked for them kills. I resolved to just letting the server end itself tbh. So I waited. By some miracle, I was able to spot them on the other side of the map. I ended up afk for a good 10 minutes before I spotted them and downed them cause of my devour stacks and exposed. This match took 20-25 minutes to end.
It is frustrating to me that survivors dont want to touch gens, totems, or do anything when there is two survs left. Where is the "go next" mentality in this situation because this is where that mentality should be applied. I can understand that hiding is a part of the game, but when does it become "holding the game hostage" if nothing is being done to progress the match?
What can a killer do in this instance? By definition, it would be "holding the game hostage," right? There was nothing I could do on my end, and I'm curious to what other people think about this situation. Or more importantly, what can a killer do if the last two survivors just hide until they are found? Of course, assuming, IF they are found.
Comments
-
It's not at all holding the game hostage. P
0 -
How would you go about circumventing this then?
4 -
The match should end when the 2nd survivor dies
1 -
From what I know if survivors do nothing for like 10-15 minutes it's reportable but it's such a stupid unclear rule you would need a mod to clarify.
imo If no objective progress is completed for like 5 minutes survivors should have their auras shown and if they're in a locker that should highlight. Feel free to argue with me why you don't deserve to be found if all living survivors do nothing for 5 minutes.
Also BHVR should stop item pick up / put down from delaying AFK crows. You can spam drop an item in a corner of the map to postpone crows indefinitely. Same thing with performing any animation.
11 -
This is sadly one of DBD's core design flaws. The survivors know that they don't have any way to win anymore but they aren't obligated to help the killer find them. And because the hatch works the way it does, they both have a reason to try and survive longer than the other survivor.
I suggest a simple mechanic like revealing one survivor with the least hook stages via killer instinct when the killer hasn't been in chase for a prolonged amount of time. About 3 minutes should suffice for it to not come into play in a normal match but I'd be fine with anything up to 5 minutes and it should last until the killer either starts a chase, gets within a certain proximity (so close, that they will definitely find that survivor) or gets a hit. The important thing is that the match ends without everyone having to wait for the game to shut down.
It's only a bandaid fix but this would definitely solve the issue.
Whether or not you want to call it holding the game hostage, it is reportable. The devs have clarified that, if players refuse to partake in normal gameplay and or prevent progression for a prolonged amount of time, that is against the rules.
8 -
It counts as holding the game hostage and is reportable. Here's one instance (there are many) of a mod saying so:
As for what a killer can do in this instance… not much. Finding the survivors is dependent on bringing the right perks, otherwise you're searching every corner and locker. The devs need to fix this in-game.
5 -
There's nothing you can do about it. Your choices are 1) spend an hour looking for the survivors, 2) hide in the corner and let them win, or 3) DC. These are the choices the devs have given you. They know it's a problem because it's been complains about many, many times on this forum. There is a very easy fix - start periodically revealing auras when two survivors remain and neither have touched a generator for 5 minutes. Incredibly simple to fix, but the devs have refused to do anything to address the problem.
They will say that survivors hiding and doing nothing for too long is reportable, but there is no possible way to prove it with video evidence, so reporting is not an option.
It's very frustrating to see this continue to get ignored while they prioritize other things that nobody is asking for like the mori changes and certain map/perk reworks.
8 -
IIdentity v has super agressive crows for survivors who havent done stuff in <90s if i remember correctly.
DDbd needs something similar.
0 -
It 100% is holding the game hostage, Devs have said so many times. Avoiding the objective (gens) when the hatch isn't available is reportable for holding the game hostage.
3 -
It is definitely holding the game hostage, but the problem is that there's no way to prove it with video evidence. Survivors can always say "I was trying to fix the gen but the killer kept getting close so I had to hide". Even if the devs are actually banning people for this, it's ridiculous that the solution the devs have chosen is to put the burden on players to go through the tedious and time-consuming video evidence reporting system rather than incorporating a very simple solution in the game that would eliminate the problem.
1 -
This topic comes up once or twice a month and it’s always toted as an easy fix and suggestions are always something that gives the killer yet more of an advantage. The issue is caused by things being stacked against the survivors and an expectation the killer is going to slug for the 4K. It needs to be addressed in a way of balances that and allows normal gameplay to continue in a way that is fair.
6 -
It is, refusing to progress the state of the match and hiding for extended periods of time effectively holds the killer hostage since the survivors are preventing a side from completing their objective and ending the match. Just because survivors can't do it as visibly as a killer corner trapping a survivor for an entire match doesn't mean they can't hold a killer hostage.
0 -
@UndeddJester Had an idea that closely alligned with my own in the topic. Here is a thread discussing the issue.
4 -
Intriguing debate that one. 🤘😁🤘
In the time since I have been wondering if this set of changes could answer the 4k slug problem:
- Survivors get the basekit ability to open chests while in the dying state.
- Survivors get the basekit ability to exchange items in chests/on the ground while in the dying state.
- Survivors get the basekit ability "Desperation". When recovered to 95% or more the survivor can press the sprint button to enter Desperation. Any time they are in the dying state they will always be in Desperation mode until they become healthy again.
- Desperation - The survivor bleeds out 50% faster (240s →180s) and make 50% louder grunts of pain. If greater than 95% recovery the survivor crawls 50% faster (0.7m/s→1.15m/s)(crouch speed 1.13m/s)
- Keys have a standard built in aura read when used to see hatch within 32m.
- Keys aura ability can still be used while in the dying state.
- Keys can open hatch from the dying state (2.5s time at base)
- Broken Key is changed to "Crooked Key" and takes 300% longer to open hatch (10s).
- Hatch now spawns closed in the event only 2 survivors are alive and is blocked by the Entity's tendrils, the aura of which is visible to the killer in white.
- It takes 10 uninterupted seconds to prise the Entity's tendrils from the hatch. Attempting to remove the tendrils will cause the aura to turn yellow for the killer.
- The killer can interact with uncovered hatch to reset the Entity tendrils.
- In the event only one survivor is alive the tendrils open immediately.
- Non dying Survivors can interact with the hatch by hand and open it within 20s or via a key in 2.5s.
- Dying survivors can interact with the hatch and open it with a key in 2.5s.
- Only 1 survivor can ever escape via hatch, and doing so immediately starts end game collapse without powering the gates!
Would make bringing a key a little more sensible, and if you combine Desperation with Tenacity, you're actually not too slow, which raises the value of that perk... but more importantly you're not stuck doing nothing on the floor, you can still actually TRY and escape.
Incidentally, a forum trick I learned recently, if you want to make a direct quote from another thread, the datetime of the comment has the direct link to the comment.
You can right click (press and hold) the datetime and copypasta the link in the forum to point right at it 😏
1 -
It's up to the developers to give survivors a good reason to try and do gens in a 2v1. Not a punishment either. An actual good reason. It's not a player issue. The elephant in the room with DbD is that the result is often locked in within 4 minutes, but the trial lasts for 15. Games last way longer than they should. The trials are disposable but last the length of a meaningful competitive match.
3 -
What if they were just looking for their glyphs 🙄
1 -
When stuff like this happens it's because the gameplay has a clear gap. You can't expect one survivor to last in a chase for the 270~ish seconds it takes the other survivor to complete 3 gens, but you also can't expect people to just go AFK the very moment the second survivor dies.
We need to introduce mechanics for these situations. We could easily rework the hatch to show up when these situations happen - and before anyone freaks out about "giving free wins" or "taking away earned wins", you can make this "early hatch" a win for the killer with some partial BP earnings (50% of a sacrifice?) and a tie (not a win) for the survivors. That way the killer still gets the win, but the survivors still get to put some effort, not necessarily to win, but rather to reduce their losses.
Behaviors like these, where players refuse to engage in normal play, happen because there's really nothing to win or lose by not playing normally. It's very easy for even the most legitimate player to think "Well, my best bet to win right now is to not do anything and hope to God the other player gets caught first" and voilà, you got a hole in your gameplay.
3 -
I wish that the 2v1 situation was cooperative instead of adversarial. I know other Killers won’t like it but how cool would it be to get hatch with a team mate? It would feel like a jail break. Plus, it would turn a 2v1 from repairing gens to a chest hunt. This of course would need a moderate key rework such as @UndeddJester ‘s recommendations like being able to open chests while dying and crooked key being allowed to open hatch.
Oh wow awesome ideas haha I love the key changes!
2 -
unfortunately, I don’t think those suggestions would be as well received as you would think as they tip the scales too far either way depending on how they work:
- if the hatch spawns with two survivors left and can be opened then we will end up back in a situation that we had a few years ago when the hatch spawned when the number of generators done was one greater than the number of survivors left in the trial and survivors worked together to find the hatch, find each other and then escape together which killers found unfair (it was).
- If only one survivor can use the hatch you will just end up with more of a hide and seek stand off only with more for the killer to do. They’ll have to patrol the remaining gens and the Hatch, which they won’t want to do. If one survivor gets the hatch the last survivor can then just wait at a door and try to get them open which won’t feel well enough earned for them (again which is fair). This again just promotes to two sides hiding scenario we have now - only more people may bring keys with the plan on outliving the team from the start potentially causing more problems.
Like I said above - most suggestions make the killer more powerful which isn’t fair, but this I feel is too survivor sided and doesn’t resolve the issue we have now. The changes need to be made to the base gameplay e.g gens and hooking. My suggestion would be the following:
- Gen repair becomes proportionate to the amount of survivors left in the match. So when one survivor is sacrificed everyone else’s repair speed goes up by the percentage lost by the survivor taken out of the match split across the remaining survivors.
-When there are only two survivors left any blow that puts a survivor into the dying state triggers an automatic pickup for the killer. The survivor cannot then be put down unless the killer is stunned by any means - including wiggling off.-If survivor 4 is downed trying to help survivor 3 wiggle off or when trying to unhook Survivor 3 they’re automatically picked up when Survivor 3 has been hooked, but the face camping radius is doubled so killers cannot abuse this by proxy camping.
- If the Killer is stunned by means of a flashlight or flashbang and drops a survivor, they gain Lightborn status for 30 seconds and cannot be stunned when carrying a survivor during this time. This way, you cannot get into a scenario where survivors abuse light based methods to immediately deny a hook I.e in a scenario where they down a survivor, are forced to pick them up, get stunned, down the saviour quickly and gets stunned again - repeat ad Infinitum until the survivors equipment is depleted.
- The hatch spawns as it does now.
This makes the survivor objective consistently accessible regardless of the number of survivors left in the match - encouraging the continuation of normal play. It also removes the ability for the killer to slug for the 4K, but empowers them to achieve it in a different but fairer way which encourages hooking which is also their main objective.Post edited by jajay119 on0 - if the hatch spawns with two survivors left and can be opened then we will end up back in a situation that we had a few years ago when the hatch spawned when the number of generators done was one greater than the number of survivors left in the trial and survivors worked together to find the hatch, find each other and then escape together which killers found unfair (it was).
-
Not really much anyone CAN do against Tombstone +Fragrant lock of hair Myers but to hide and hope he kills the other Survivor tbh. Not even to mention the only counterplay IS to hide in a locker not only to avoid being instakilled but he has to come find you and hook you first.
0 -
Only survivors are allowed to hold a game hostage. Your pleas are falling on deaf ears.
0 -
Yes the game is so ridiculously killer sided now and people want to make it more so. Balance the freaking game it will help so many things like making dc's and hook suicides go down. Its like im only playing in solo que anymore out of stubnorness and hope that Bhvr. will eventually fix their game.
And also even though everyone posts that quote no one has an example of anyone being banned or even warned for that. Probably because Bhvr. knows it would be ridiculous to punish a survivor for doing their objective i.e. trying to survive.
3 -
Killers nowadays only want kills handed to them on a silver platter instead of having to actually having to go and look for survivors. They're given so many tools in the form of aura reading perks each killer release and cry when a survivor has a slight advantage over them.
2 -
Survivors objective is to escape not simply "survive" if it was to survive then after a certain time the survivor would win, but as it's to escape, after a certain time they are automatically sacrificed (for failing the objective in a reasonable timeframe). Therefore it would be reasonable to punish survivors for not doing the objective of escaping. Surviving is a means to escape (can't escape if your dead) but if there are no attempts to escape then surviving doesn't mean anything.
1
