If maps being made smaller is the new goal
then more strategic placement of resources needs to be factored in too. I personally don’t believe ‘RNG’ is much of a factor anymore as most of the more modern maps have near identical layouts. This is the layout of a cold wind map I’ve just had - no main building only the shack. The photos are taken from the same hook;
four gens virtually in a line on one side of the map and massive dead zones on the other 50%. Honestly, I said this way back in January but 2024 needs to be a year where they start seriously looking at their maps and trying to balance them properly. I’m over the maps getting smaller, but this type of layout is just abysmal.
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I doubt maps will get any better. All recent map reworks and new ones clearly favored killers and they will continue to do so as long as enough people play survivor.
Even as killer main I dislike the direction of maps, especially when you can see all four walls, because the map is so small.
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maps being smaller is their solution to immobile killers. if maps are big, killer will 3 gen because map is too big to patrol. it also means that every gen that is too far away is free gen for survivor. big maps are also grant free wins for survivor if killer doesn't 3 gen and the last 2 gens are spread out. a skilled survivor team will always prioritize spreading gens out to maximize walking distance if they're efficient gen-rush team. this is also more common and more popular now made… by that Deja vu perk. Before deja vu, only extremely skilled survivor with perfect generator map location knowledge would prioritize the correct gens, now it is just standard with that perk.
In op screenshot, i don't see anything wrong. screen 2 has cowloop and screenshot 1 is a tile and tractor.
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I don‘t think this is the right solution and it’s a pretty bad one in many aspects. I would much more prefer helping those killer who struggle specifically instead of making it for all killers easier. (Be it the Map mobility or other aspects)
I would much more prefer having longer matches so killer can deal with better and more loops, but therefore behavior would have to change gens or add something new to the objective. Simply making gens 100 or more seconds would be a terrible solution.
You can‘t really say all teams are that way. The majority of survivors does not play in the most optimal way.
For the big maps being a free win, disagree. Might be true for some killers, but those should be buffed. On the other hand making maps smaller gives stronger killer free wins as well and makes them too strong on those maps. Then in the end they will need hard nerfs as well even tho they might be fine. I‘m not a fan of balancing maps around weak killers and then giving strong killers even more advantages. You can‘t balance around weak and slow killers and leave the strong and fast ones untouched.
Post edited by Langweilg on3 -
You can‘t balance around weak and slow killers and leave the strong and fast ones untouched.
the thing is, it doesn't matter that a map is smaller for fast killers because the killer that are fast cross the map regardless of what size is. Like billy doesn't care that eyrie of crow or rotten fields became smaller. Making maps smaller only benefits killer that are immobile. Like suddenly, the mobility between Billy and Cannibal become smaller therefore map mobility is less relevant.
Something that dev have recently said is, "Due to longer gens, camping has become stronger". It is not gens taking longer that have made camping stronger. it is the map size. one of strength of mobility killers is that mobility killer are able to proxy camp more effectively at larget distances because they're able to return to the hook easier, often with intent to tunnel. The map size is why camping is stronger. Smaller maps allow weaker killers and all killer for that matter to camp hooks much easier because time it takes to return to the hook is significantly decreased. Hovering around hooks will be common the smaller map is. When a killer is immobile, like trapper, a trapper that is 50 meters away as opposed to 30 meters away has to evaluate returning to hook vs continuing a chase. The closer hook is, the less evaluation has to be given.
personally, from playing a lot of non-mobility killers, map size for me as killer has never been the issue in most cases. for me, biggest issue is often god pallets/pallet with no mindgame and god windows, windows that survivor can loop and you cannot do anything vs said window. when you play immobile killers, dropping chase is a lot more time expensive so 0 mindgame type loops are a lot more hurtful for those killers because a mobile killer can drop chases in poor positions where as immobile loses a lot of time regardless of what action they take in a lot of situations.
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Thats not true at all, Nurse can teleport to anywhere on the map with a single teleport, always being in chase with information perks. Large maps are the only thing keeping these killers in check atm, hyper mobility needs looked at regardless, or more skill experession to counter them needs put in (Blight pallet break removed, Nurse/Spirit lightburn readded). It's harder to get hook saves as there is no way to take the killer away. Smaller maps still make high mobility killer pressure very strong, limited resources to fight back… it becomes a lost cause quickly. it's also harder to hold W to get distance on mobility killers or use the fog to get away when they make a mistake.
Gens taking longer did make camping stronger, that's why the hook timers were increased as one mistake was very unforgiving, and that change has helped ease up the pressure a little, why do you think reassurance is so good….?
Perks like surge gain more value, aura reading gets more value, there is just a lot which is more miserable in closer quarters.
if the smaller maps are to become the new norm, I feel killers need a wide range of reversions to the 6.1.0 ontop of S tier killers being adjusted.
I still do not agree 60-80 percent kill rate should ever be the goal, the game was more fun as killer and survivor pre 6.1.0 in ways, though changes have made the game better, a lot of it has made it very unforgiving for both sides when a mistake is made.
Small maps are awful for the game, low mobility killers just need help in ways like the portals from the dungeon map after hooks etc to allow them to reposition and the like or the halloween event.4 -
Gens taking longer did make camping stronger, that's why the hook timers were increased as one mistake was very unforgiving, and that change has helped ease up the pressure a little, why do you think reassurance is so good….?
Gen taking longer makes gen-rushing less effective. Like i said in my post, the map being smaller is what is making camping more effective.
if the smaller maps are to become the new norm, I feel killers need a wide range of reversions to the 6.1.0 ontop of S tier killers being adjusted.
They already are being adjusted. Blight is weaker, Billy is weaker in next patch. the stronger killer have continuously been nerfed however the killer buffs don't necessary buff weaker killer to be any closer to stronger killer.
it's also harder to hold W to get distance on mobility killers or use the fog to get away when they make a mistake.
it doesn't matter that map size is small or big for mobile killer. it will be hard to get distance on said killer regardless of map size. Like i said, the map size is buff to immobile killers because smaller maps make mobility a less valuable asset.
I still do not agree 60-80 percent kill rate
No killer are remotely close to 80% kill-rate on average and barely any of them are 60%. On average, the dev goals are way off, not even remotely hitting the target.
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Gens being longer does nothing with Hyperfocus Stakeout etc. if people want to gen rushm they will co-ordinate a way
So you agree smaller maps are making the game more imbalanced then, that's what I'm getting from this.
Also they need further adjustments, pallet breaking ability/palletvaulting + High mobility + Short cooldowns is incredibly overtuned, I'm not saying to lose all 3, but something needs to be brought down.
It'd be better if killers with no mobility could gain the mobility the S tiers have, with a global mechanic like portals… which you glossed over. It solves a lot of problems without needing to rework every gd map.
Map size does matter, and distance does matter, Shift W is one of the most complained about things.3 -
It had to favor them. The game is getting so easy for survivors it's ridiculous. My 7 year old can just run pallet to pallet as a survivor to win. 25% of the pallets on each board need to be eliminated.
You aren't a killer main, you're just saying that to make your point more valid.
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In what world are you living. No way you say this game is too easy for survivors. I don‘t care wether or not you believe me, I mainly play killer and it is super easy 80% of the time. Even the kill rates show a clear picture of that. The only time I play survivor is with friends and I can‘t wait for 2 vs 8 to return, because it was so much more fun to play killer together than it is playing survivor together.
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You must be living in Disneyland. Kill rates are stupid. The game should be fair, not set easier/harder to some nonsense metric.
Endless Pallets.
Endless Windows.
Tons of jungle gyms.
Things like automatic pickup off hook eliminated.
Anti-camp mechanic basekit that the killer has no view of but should.
Borrowed Time basekit.
Killer barely runs a buttcrack faster than survivor so survivor can literally w-key across a board while half a gen is done.
Bloodlust is trash, chases end when someone gets hit and they get that easy mode speedboost after being struck.
Faster than ever gens.
A guaranteed flashbang mechanic.
A bingo type freespace except instead of the middle of the board it's 2 gens guaranteed done on the first chase in most games.Should I keep going? How can they make it any easier for you? Maybe you want a new mechanic where once you are on the hook the killer has to run to the other side of the board or you get all your health states back? Or maybe a bigger board where you can more easily split up and once a killer starts a chase, even a fast chase results in 3 gens being done? Or maybe just six health states instead of 3?
Stop trying to make the game easier and make it fairer. What you are proposing is more "why can't survivors just shoot fish in a barrel, it's more fun when I constantly win." If this wasn't true so many survivors wouldn't complain about tunneling.
If so easy why dont you offer to stream so I can see how good of a killer you are? Maybe I'll learn from you. However, playing killer a few times a year when you survivor all the time doesn't make you a main no matter how much you say it.
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I don‘t think you are interested in discussion anything, so just agree to disagree.
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Gens being longer does nothing with Hyperfocus Stakeout etc. if people want to gen rushm they will co-ordinate a way
that is not what i am talking about. the perk have nothing to do with 3 survivors being efficiently on generator entire game.
So you agree smaller maps are making the game more imbalanced then, that's what I'm getting from this.
I disagree with said statement. Smaller map are bridge gap between higher mobility killers and non-mobility killer. The problem is that by bridge gap, it is creating unfun gameplay-style's. One of which is Proxy camping being more effective. High mobility killer already excel at proxy camping but you only face that level of strong proxy camping vs said killers but by making maps smaller, now every single killer is proxy camping at similar or closer strengths as each other. With proxy camping also incurs more tunneling. Just for reference, generator spawning closer because map is smaller also creates more 3 gens more often because killer is able patrol those gens that much more effectively. As a result, dev are nerfing killers on 3 gens, proxy camping and eventually… tunneling(Base-Kit BT haste).
Also they need further adjustments, pallet breaking ability/palletvaulting + High mobility + Short cooldowns is incredibly overtuned, I'm not saying to lose all 3, but something needs to be brought down.
again, i don't agree. Pallet breaking is still extremely slow. in fact, i'd almost argue that pallet breaking change did nothing other than buff brtual strength. They could just buffed brutal strength by 10%. High mobility is becoming less and less of factor and will continue thread downwards as long as dev keep shrinking maps. if i was guess next map that they will shrink, it will likely be disturbed ward because it is very big map. The type of high mobility that is relevant is catch-up health-state mobility. Mobility in the chase is good, mobility outside of chase is becoming not really important. it is still important on some maps but less so than before. Most killer power are ranging below 55% kill-rate and even worse win-rate that @ad19970 made a post about. so no, i don't think low cooldowns are over-tuned. high cooldown for killer power is plain unfun. No one like being an m1 killer longer than they have to be.
It'd be better if killers with no mobility could gain the mobility the S tiers have, with a global mechanic like portals… which you glossed over. It solves a lot of problems without needing to rework every gd map.
They're not going redesign maps to have portals. furthermore, homogenizing killer is generally unfun because it removes variety and choice. if everything is the same, does my choice really matter? Shrinking maps reduces severity of having low mobility. having low mobility shouldn't be auto-loss. it should be minor advantage for some killers and minor disadvantage for other killers. With giant maps, minor advantage becomes giant advantage and giant disadvantage.
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