DS should be basekit.
Yeah, I said it.
Let’s stop pretending that the biggest problem in the game is anything besides how rampant tunneling is.
Just look how miserable chaos shuffle is for survivors currently. Extremely low chance of getting anti tunnel, meaning that if the killer wants to tunnel you out immediately they can VERY likely do so.
You should not NEED to run anti tunnel to have a playable experience.
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Well, our biggest problem is other players. Tunneling comes from people, they want to tunnel for whatever reason they gonna do it. Players are also the reason for camping, BM, and overall many of the negatives in DBD for us. We ain't pretending here.
When we see chaos shuffle on survivor, we see fun but that's us. Infact theres been less tunneling there than normal (not that it says much).
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Killers are already starting to slug. But sure, give me more reason to bleed people out instead of hook anybody :)
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It’s an interesting idea, though likely very unpopular. I understand the thought behind it. I really don’t agree with one “side” being required to being a perk (that is not even free) to counter something the other “side” can do completely perk less.
I would remove collision so that survivors couldn’t tank a hit for someone else, and keep the restrictions that prevent you from having protection while progressing the game through any actions.
Personally when it comes to tunneling I think gen speeds should be affected. If a killer spreads hooks, gens get a repair speed nerf, so they take longer time overall. If the killer hooks the same survivor consecutively then gens get a repair speed buff making them take shorter time overall. Both stack overtime. I think this would encourage spreading hooks and reward the killer for taking the time to chase multiple targets, while not taking away the option to tunnel completely if they feel they need to. It just wouldn’t be the most optimal way to play anymore as it doesn’t give them the same kind of pressure as before and it increases the chances of everyone at least getting to play the game.
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No. We do NOT need people running multiple health state builds post unhook.
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Something needs to be done about tunneling and it needs to something other than a perk. Tunneling is way too free as of now.
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I feel like there's a fine line here between discouraging players to not tunnel, and encouraging them to not tunnel. A lot of killers tunnel because it is the most efficient way to get a survivor out of the game, thus it's the most efficient way to secure a win.
It's the same with slugging as of late with players catching onto the idea that hooking only waste time with no value compared to winning.
So then we need ask the question, do we give survivors more tools to fight these playstyles? Maybe make them far less rewarding maybe, or do we opt for making other playstyles much more appealing?
Regardless, the key words are encourage and discourage. The devs can only do so much without taking away player choice.
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It seems to me that instead of constant anti 3gen anti camp, etc., we should reward the killer for a more fun game
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At some point you just need to recognize there's a skill issue. The more BHVR adds basekit mechanics against tunneling or camping, the more people complain about tunneling and camping so these basekit mechanics clearly aren't solving the issue. Survivors have tools to deal with these strategies they refuse to use, because they unreasonably expect to be immune to dying early.
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yes because tunneling is not a skill issue either. Nothing skillful about going for the guy with 1 health state and 1 step closer to death hook. Big strategic play here
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If implemented correctly, I'm very much in favour of this.
Anti tunnel should not be locked behind a pay wall.
It would have to come with compensation and restrictions of course.
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Oh good, something that requires hitting a difficult skill check.
No, don't balance the game around something that screws people playing while experiencing performance problems (especially console players; I for example am on Switch and cannot hit 99.9% of Overcharge skill checks) or whose reaction times aren't frame-perfect.
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If DS goes basekit they have to give killers something in return. You can’t just say give us a perk that already super powerful in the right hands. Pain Res should be base if that ever happens.
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Dont ever cook again
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Getting a survivor out of the game early is good for keeping gens under control. If the recently hooked survivor makes themselves an easy target then you can't really blame the killer for going for the win.
In the same way that repairing gens isn't very skillful at all, but survivors getting gens as quickly as possible is also a strategy.
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DS is the single easiest perk in the game to counter. It is not powerful in the slightest, provided you aren't tunnelling.
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learn how to loop?
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Completely disagree. First of all no one wants to run the same perks just incase you get tunneled or slugged. Second you are at 1 health state with a bunch of killers with mobility and strong anti loop (not every killer is at Freddy level). Third there is 0 skill in tunneling someone off the hook. Thats a skill issue on the killer.
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100% correct
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the current ds should not be basekit. With some modifications made it could be done but they would have to restrict the mechanic a lot
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With the amount of strong killers there are now and the fact that you are at one health state….yeah “learn how to loop” is a poor response. It’s like me saying learn how to chase as killer when you get a bad map or something
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People have been upset with Tunneling and Camping long before any kind of basekit mechanics were introduced. People are still upset because these basekit mechanics are still not enough to deter Tunneling and Camping because the value you get out of both of these tactics far exceeds the cost. Even with small basekit mechanics it is still not enough which is why there are various perks to try and further counter, not that they should be required. In order to counter something very oppressive someone else can do completely perkless, you are forced/expected to equip a perk(s), the perk(s) is not free, the perk(s) is for a limited amount of time and it is heavily restricted. To question why people are still frustrated seems obvious.
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learn how to loop it’s very simple. In my killer games when I try and tunnel players out they show awareness and skill with wasting as much of my time as possible. You aren’t just dead instantly off hook. You can run away loop and waste time the I’m getting tunneled out and need basekit perks are becoming tiresome. Learn how to play the game and stop asking for the game to hand hold you.
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agreed, killers should be punished for playing in a way that their opponents in this PVP game don’t like
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because you are one shot and you are being chased off the hook you are most likely dead. Yeah you can waste time (you need the right map, the right perks and teammates) but most scenarios you are gonna go down again especially with the amount of killers with strong anti loop.
“Learn how to play the game and stop asking for the game to hand hold you.” the person defending tunneling because it’s the easiest way to win consistently is the one being handheld.0 -
learn how to chase, it’s very simple. In my survivor games when I try and genrush killers they show awareness and skill with pressuring the map as hard as possible. You aren’t just genrushed instantly with 5 gens. You can switch targets and pressure the gens the I’m getting genrushed and need tunnel someone are becoming tiresome. Learn how to play the game and stop asking for the game mechanics abuse to hand hold you.
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You know what has never been done for killers. More rewards for spreading hooks. Tunneling and camping (and slugging) are seen often, because they are the most rewarded playstyles even with basekit mechanics to turn down their effectiveness. This isn't a problem that will be solved by adding basekit mechanics. The game fundamentally rewards killers for getting early kills just like it rewards survivors for getting gens done quickly.
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I agree with this 100%. But what you said in your original post that it was a skill issue, as if it was the survivors fault for not being able to overcome a very oppressive and common playstyle that a combination of both perks and basekit mechanics still cannot deter. It is on the Devs for having the easiest way to secure wins or get pressure to be the hardest thing to counter, and it is on those who use these tactics regardless if they are needed, but simply because of the conveinece. In my opinion, Tunneling should be directly tied to gen speeds. Everytime a different survivor is hooked gens get a repair speed nerf, making them take longer to complete. Everytime a survivor is hooked consecutively gens get a repair speed buff making them take shorter to complete. Killers are rewarded for multiple hooks from multiple targets but still retain the ability to tunnel if they so wish to, it just is no longer the most optimal way to play the game. Providing this kind of base-kit gen slowdown can also free up killer perk variety so they don't feel as if they have to run gen regression, similar to the way survivros shouldn't feel as if they have to run anti-tunnel perks.
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it still is a skill issue. Survivors have tools to deal with these strategies but too many survivors don't want to be good at the game, they want free escapes
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BVHR already has base-kit anti-tunnel mechanic. the mechanic is called borrow time. it grants 10% haste and endurence for 10 seconds. All they need to do is buff it to 60 seconds of haste and 60 seconds of endurance like Light out. You'll see a lot less tunneling. they also have AFC which will be renamed to AC which only work for 16 meters. they only need buff it to 32 meters similar to light out. the base-kit anti-tunneling and base-kit anti-camp is already in the game. it is just very weak … until it get buffed.
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I mean its a game about being chased down and sacrificed by a killer…. being safe seems silly?
I mean you are at the mercy of the killer you are facing thats kind of the point…
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We kind of had some encouragement to spread hooks. Remember old BBQ?
First, you know where the other survivors are, then you get a blood-point bonus for hooking four of them.
Then the devs have nerfed the BP bonus.
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This is just silly. "Tunneling is way too free as of now." There is nothing free about it. You have to chase them 6 times, down them multiple times still and hook them. That's IF they don't have DS, Off the record, borrowed time on them or the huge buff to baby sitter….
So no, tunneling isn't close to "Free"
Post edited by MechWarrior3 on6 -
Posts about basekit unbreakable incoming.
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I 100% agree. When I started playing, back when Boon: Circle of Healing and Spine Chill were still viable, everybody said, “You know, watch YouTube videos to learn how to get better. It’s so easy to escape the killer.” Since then, they gutted healing, gutted Spine Chill, and gutted a lot of the perks that these YouTube videos advertised for survivors to use. I’ve played the game long enough to manage winning more often, but they have since released a whole bunch of killers that the gutted perks would be good counters to. I mentioned this on some post on Instagram, and the person listed off a bunch of non-starting perks, like Dance with Me and Dead Hard, claiming that watching some spooky looper could help me learn to get better. Seeing the evolution of this game, I can say that there should be more base kit options. The new players don’t have access to many useful perks, and many new friends don’t want to play a game that requires a huge learning curve to enjoy. Waiting forever to start a game only to die in the first minute is frustrating. Might as well DC; what’s the difference?
Post edited by joeyspeehole on1 -
I think it would be better if survivors learned how to play against tunneling killers.
When I get tunneled, because teammate unhooked me 5 seconds after I got hooked and killer is still nearby, I am going to blame that survivor, not the killer.Just use anti tunneling perks. DS, OTR if you have an issue, or Babysitter (it's very good now) for others.
If killer is tunneling, don't unhook early (just don't do it overall). Survivor is untouchable for the killer on hook, while you can work on gens. Unhook in last seconds, or when you know killer is in chase far from hook.6 -
they should have never got rid of the bloodpoints for bbq and wglf
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what exactly is the point of all the other perks if we are just supposed to run anti tunnel perks every game
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They should at least ensure that the trickster shards have no effect on you and don’t increase the attack during the borrowed time.
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You can't reasonably go for the unhooker every single time and expect to get a 3k or more.
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This I agree with. My beautiful lovely BBQ stonks were precious to me, and you had to hook everyone for the max effect.
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Then we simply disagree. It's not exclusively a skill issue because while survivors have tools to counter it, these tools come at a perk slot cost, are temporary, and have specific requirements while tunneling is a perkless strategy that can be executed at any time without limitations or costs. Saying that "they don't want to be good at the game" when using tunneling as an example of skill is interesting. Tunneling is much easier to do than to counter. The effort you put into tunneling compared to the value you get out of it is not equal, which is why it’s so popular. If it were difficult to execute it wouldn’t be such a common tactic.
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All those anti-whatever things dont do anything. DS Basekit wouldnt solve tunneling in the slightest, cause you can easily tunnel through DS with most killers. We already had that when everyone ran DS fpr getting 10s more in this game. Same goes for every anti-whatever. They just dont do anything and you cannot run every anti-whatsoever cause youre limited to 4 perks. You would probably need twice the perks and it still wouldnt do much about the issue. Playing survivor is just a miserable thing to begin with cause killers are, for whatever reason, immune to play normal gameplay.
Post edited by DeBecker on2 -
You are just going to punish players who don't tunnel…
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I don't think it needs to be basekit but it definitely came in clutch in Chaos Shuffle when I was unlucky enough to get No Mither at the same time. The killer wanted me and only me from the get go, guess he figured I'd be an easy kill. Ended up getting a 4 escape and DS definitely saved my butt lol I've never actually used it before and I've been playing for a number of years. Good perk.
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This.
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Is it a base-game tool? Or a Perk that limits loadout variety.
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Not really that great even if you are tunneling.
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Bamboozle would like to have a word. As would most anti-loop powers.
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That being said I think DS basekit is uninspired and boring.
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That is a gross exaggeration! You're not supposed to run all anti-tunnel!
You're supposed to bring anti-slug, anti-aura reading and anti-camp, too!
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