My Sadako/Onryo wishlist (long post)
Hello folks,
Here are some of my ideas for Sadako or the Onryo depending on how you want to call her. I try to make her more fun again. My three topics are chase buffs (flicker and tp), a revert of two aspects and addons (changes/ideas).
Chase/flicker buffs:
I think her flicker is a really cool ability, but not quite useful in most cases. I‘m trying to change that.
(Is the invisibility still bugged? If yes, please fix that behavior. Thanks)
- The otherworld visible duration gets reduced to 1s or 1,2s (was1,5s)
Through that change her invisibility would happen more often and make keeping track of her more difficult. Currently this is not really the case and it is very easy to know where she is located in chase. It would allow for smother and more fluid mindgames as well and maybe encourage more players to use that part of her power more. The time you have to wait for getting invisible again often discourages me to use it.
- The lullaby range decreased to 12-18m (was 24m) and please remove the directional part of it
It is really frustrating to have a stealth power that simply does not work. Like 90% of my opponents notice the lullaby in the visual heartbeat sensor and run instantly away before I came even anywhere close to them. Then the directional part of it always tells survivors where I will come from, so that they don‘t have a chance at running into me and it makes mindgames as her really frustrating when survivors have constant wall hacks through the sound of it. That was one of the big changes you did to dredge, please do this for her too.
- In Sadakos post manifest flicker the red stain is hidden or she is undetectable for the flickering duration (new)
A small change to make her flicker a little bit better. The red stain often gives you completely away and makes using the ability rather difficult, especially when you want to focus on using the invisibility in the right moments instead of focusing on hiding the red stain.
- She flickers for 4s after crawling out of an TV (new)
This is a nice thematic change she does in the movies and it would be nice seeing it in the game. I don‘t think it will have much use, but in some cases it might help. This is more a change for the horror theme of her.
- Demanifest flicker and manifest flicker get the same values, which means she is invisible for 1,2s after manifesting like when she is in demanifested.
Mainly to merge her two addons (reikos watch and newspaper), which both do exactly the same thing and it would just be a nice little buff
- Her invisibility does
not deactivate through breaking pallets and vaulting windows
When playing shack I often feel like my ability does literally nothing and like it should work for the window at least. I tried serveral times vaulting it while being invisible only to find out it does not work and I see no reason why it shouldn‘t. Other killers have a lot better abilities than this could ever be.
Teleport/chase buff:
-Please remove TV auras!!!!!! (Very important) or give me an addon for it
I know what your intentions were when you added them, but they did not solve the issue you wanted to solve of survivors not knowing where and how to find TVs (which wasn‘t hard before). Most of them who struggled still ignore and do nothing against her power, but it makes playing her a nightmare. You can never get close to anyone with the teleport like you could before you added them. They always prerun half an hour ago in the opposite direction while you crawl out of TVs, because they see you from a mile away through walls, which forces you to ALWAYS run bloody fingernails to not have a completly useless teleport. I remember in the past how good and fun it was to chase people through the TVs and what it is now! (It’s not fun anymore). Secondly it makes survivors disable most of her TVs all of the time against survivors who know what they are doing, which isn’t fun as well to have no teleport points. Last but not least it hurts the horror feeling of this character when you always know where she will come from. PLEASE BEHAVIOR THIS IS MY BIGGEST PAIN POINT WHEN PLAYING HER, PLEASE SOLVE THOSE TWO PROBLEMS IT WASN‘T ALWAYS LIKE THAT AND SHE WAS A LOT MORE FUN IN HER FIRST VERSION BECAUSE OF THAT!
- Tape insertion speed and the speed for turning off TVs is 1,5-2s (0,5s/1s)
A thing I liked doing in the past was interrupting survivors when they want to put in tapes or turn off TVs, but currently the interacting time with TVs is so low, that it is almost impossible to tp to the TVs in time. This is especially frustrating when playing aura builds and seeing them at the TVs and not being able to demanifest in time in order to get there. It’s not really about interrupting the removal of condemned for me, but this would be another use.
- TVs no longer turn off after projection (was 45s); Edit: TVs have a 30s long condemned cooldown after teleporting towards them, which still allows you to teleport there, but they don’t spread condemned while on cooldown
I don‘t see why not. Survivors can always turn off TVs for a long period of time and even without the TV auras TVs are loud and have an effect around them, so there is enough things that limit her tp already. She even has a cooldown in form of switching into the otherworld mode.
A revert of two aspects to make her more similar to her first version and some buffs to some of her issues back then
I never really liked that she got reworked since she has been my favorite killer back then. Ever since she was no longer as fun to play as she once was. All the focus was on making condemned super annoying and making her teleport trash in the process, which was my favorite part of her power. Don‘t get me wrong condemned is nice, but it should not be the only focus of her. The problem is her current mechanics of global condemned and having no downside to holding tapes forces turning off TVs non stop, which removes all teleport points near survivors. I don‘t think there is a way to have a good teleport with the current mechanics, which you (behavior) would go, so I suggest reverting those two aspects. (One way to solve it in the current version could be my second addon idea)
- Passive condemned: Every 25s of holding a tape you get 1 stack condemned
This is one of the main reasons why I will always prefer the first version. Survivors were not encouraged to grab tapes at all and I had all the TVs available most of the time even tho the cooldown was long. Chasing with her was so much more fun as the focus was not only on making her condemned well (and annoying) even tho I would say her condemned is in worse spot than it would be with 1.0 mechanics. I loved teleporting around and chasing survivor with the TVs, which is no longer possible/viable way of playing her if you want to win.
- Only one TV spreads condemned
Her condemned is only slowdown now if you don‘t play against beginners, who ignore TVs all the time. Then again making it global or all TVs, forces survivors to turn off all the TVs near them, which is extremely unfun. Lastly your own skill does not matter since she is all about the other side misplaying, you can‘t really impact much if they play right and it‘s not good giving the other side so much power over your ability. It‘s also not good Design to have an opressive ability like that, which is only oppressive against people who have no clue what‘s going on.
- Condemned gets spread in a 20-24m range (was16m)
To make it easier to spread condemned stacks, which could easily be outrunned back then, because it gets spread at the end of crawling out of the TVs animation.
Hookinga survivor gives all other survivors1 stackof condemned (new)
To encourage hooking over slugging and to actually chase someone instead of tp spamming. While I don‘t have a problem with slugging, especially on a killer that has no strong chase ability, both ways of playing her aren‘t really fun for the survivors. Instead of forcing everyone to play a certain way, I want to encourage playing in a more fun way instead of removing it and punishing all who play her even tho they didn‘t play that way just seems wrong to me. (This could probably even get added into the current version‘s basekit.) It would obviously also be a nice buff to condemned, which many say was too weak back then, but I think with those changes it would have been in a good spot.
Addon changes
- 🔴Iri videotape: Hitting a Survivor within 8 seconds after Manifesting turns on the last 2-3 TVs turned off (revert) - My favorite addon of all time in this game. With the live version it would need a compensation nerf, which makes that you only spread condemned only around one TV. I would also make current iri tape basekit without the negatives, which is a cool addon, but no worth being iri.
- 🟢Well water might need a new effect, because the buff to the post manifest flicker might make it irrelevant
- 🟢Ring drawing: Condemned Survivors spread their Condemnation to other Survivors, who complete a Healing action on an injured Survivor. - The old effect was a lot cooler/stronger/uniquer and the current effect should be basekit and not be on an addon, which I suggested in the reverting part. Please bring back this old/cool addon.
- 🟢Rickety pinwheel: Survivors suffer from the obvious effect and hear no lullaby (new), when within 12-16m (was 8m) of any TV. This effect lingers for 1-2seconds (new). Turning off TVs halves its range (new). - This addon got rarely used, because it doesn‘t really activate in the live version since survivors are encouraged to take tapes and in her former version it was ok, but not really useful since you are normally not walking around the map outside of her power. The range was also too small and often didn‘t even reach gens.
- 🟡Yoichis fishing net: Reduces the time it takes Survivors to acquire another stack of Condemned by -12 % when holding a tape (revert to its old effect) - The current effect does not really activate often and the older one was a lot more useful. We also do not really need 2 blindness addons (revert focused addon change)
- 🟡Sea-soaked cloth: Survivors suffer from the blindness Status effect when within 12-16m (was 8m) of any TV (was only turned on TVs). This effect lingers for 1-2s (new).Turning off TV’s halves its range (new). - The range was too small to be useful and in live TVs are always turned off, so it doesn‘t activate much.
- 🟡Reikos watch gets a new effect and its effect becomes part of 🔘old newspaper. I never understood why there is a diffrence between demanifest flicker and manifest flicker in terms of addons and power. Old newspaper would still be +33% for manifest and demanifest flicker invisibility
- 🟡Clumb of hair: Reduces the threshold for full Invisibility while Demanifasted by 10-14m (was 6m) and this effect lingers for 1s (new) -The 6m don‘t really matter. The addon could be really cool if it wasn‘t that weak.
- 🔘Cabin sign and 🟡well stone need both new effects since their effects are too minor or they need a big buff and cabin sign would do nothing if there is no cooldown after projection.
Addon ideas/suggestions (the colors represent the addon rarity)
- The haste from protection gets turned into hinderd and given to survivors for the duration of the speed in a 16m range of the TV. - Would be a fun meme addon. 🔘/🟡
- Sadako can tp to a turned off TV and activates it afterwards again, she does not spread condemned when doing it. - Would be strong addon for mobility (if TV auras get removed [Please]) 🟢/🟣/🔴
- Every time a generator gets completed every survivor gets a stack of condemned - Another way to spread condemned, could maybe even be basekit if she gets reverted. 🟡/🟢
- At the start of a match she crawls out of a TV next to a survivor and the TVs are not on a 30s long cooldown - This would be nice get into chase quick at the start of a match addon. 🔘/🟡
I hope my feedback was helpful and hopefully she gets changes that make her more fun to play again soon.
Thanks for reading!
What do you think , please give some constructive feedback?
Comments
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Onryo isn't schedule anywhere in the change-list. so i have no comments on the killer other than i think buffing her condemn radius from 16 →24 meter will make her even stronger on Gideon's and Midwich.
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She is in a really good spot now.
The old versions of her were just oppressive and annoying. She was only played to farm free kills. Now, she has to work for it like other killers do.
She is fine imo.
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My goal with this post is that she gets some changes sooner than later.
How exactly would it make her even stronger than she currently is on those maps, when only one TV spreads condemned? The range would already be a lot smaller with only one TV spreading it and I don’t think a 4-8m buff would be anywhere near as problematic or significant as it would be with global condemned and all TVs.
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I disagree with her being in a good spot. I don’t see a killer as good and healthy, who is a monster against people who have no clue what’s going on and on the other hand she has no functioning power against everyone else.
Only to not misunderstand, which of her old versions do you mean? When you mean the version before the current one, then I’m with you. Global condemned was annoying to play against.
When you don’t mean the first rework and the original version, which I suggested to return, then I don’t understand what you mean. That version was a lot weaker and required a lot more work for the kills than the current one does. I want the Sadako player to require skill again, instead of requiring the survivors to play bad to have a good match. She is not fun with all those limitations she got on her teleport since the first rework.
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She’s not in a good spot. Her stealth is awful, her condemn is spammy and it’s boring, cursed tapes aren’t cursed and mean nothing. They can be held onto with no punishment. Tape interactions are the fastest killer interaction in the game all while sucking at chase as a killer.
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0 cooldown tp+near 33% bigger radius+1 stack of condemn. Sadako needs total re-balancing. She needs to be weaker on double story maps and stronger in ALL other maps.
her condemn is spammy and it’s boring, cursed tapes aren’t cursed and mean nothing.
On day 1 of her rework, i literally said 3.0 sadako is mindless spamming. people said that this version would take more skill to play and i said complete opposite that this version is low form of skill that Sadako has ever had.
She’s not in a good spot.
cursed tapes aren’t cursed and mean nothing. They can be held onto with no punishment. Tape interactions are the fastest killer interaction in the game all while sucking at chase as a killer.
said that on day 1. all changes for Sadako are pure-hand holding changes. the irony is that even with all hand-holding changes, people still manage to lose to this bad pure m1 killer with a teleport. The player that are bad didn't get better vs Sadako ability. they still just lose anyway. All it is now for killer is that killer is unfun to play. super annoying. ughhhh
One day she'll become good again? right?
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"One day she'll become good again? right?"
I have to believe this.
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Do you mean with a 0s cooldown she could just spam teleporting to the same TV underneath them until survivors have 7 stacks?
What do you think of giving each TV a 30s condemned cooldown, so this couldn’t happen? Then you could still tp to them, but you wouldn’t be able to abuse it.
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i think the design is just extremely flawed. the tv are suppose to be supporting mechanic that gradually increases condemn. Right now it is only primary way to build condemn and it doesn't work. it is either too good or too useless.
Let me use an analogy for how bad the current design for sadako is. Let's take dredge nightfall. Dredge nightfall builds nightfall charges in VARIOUS ways. You can hit survivors, you can leave survivors injured, you can teleport, you can use your ability to gain burst charges, you can hook survivors. there are MANY WAYS to get nightfall charges. This is how Sadako USED TO BE. She used to have MANY WAYS to apply condemn stacks. She would gain condemn stacks by teleporting. She would gain stacks by injuring survivors with the tape. She would gain stacks for other survivors healing. She had multiple facets for express potency in her ability.
Let's imagine Dredge nightfall. Let's say we just removed ALL of his nightfall mechanics to gain nightfall charges and we only leave him with 1 mechanic gain nightfall. You can only gain nightfall by teleporting to a locker and standing in a locker. Do you know how unbelievably bad dredge nightfall if only way to gain nightfall was to stand in a locker? You would be standing in a locker for like 2 minutes straight just to get a single nightfall. that is how the depiction for what current Sadako condemn is. Condemn is huge sink with impractical time investment for the reward.
The entire killer is strip to bare bones and the entire killer needs an entire re-visit. number changes are not sufficient. killer needs redesign. I just want personal 2.0 revert with maybe few modifications or lower numbers but that is just me. Current Sadako for me is uninteresting. I rather just play pig at this point over play any matches with Sadako.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
She's not. She's the only killer who you can literally delete the power of as a survivor with 0 drawback other than taking 3 seconds out your time of doing a gen to grab a tape. Not to mention one of the only buffs they gave her in her last rework they messed up and actually nerfed it and are STILL YET TO FIX IT.
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You can’t compare sadako’s condemned mechanic to dredge’s nightfall. Those are two completly different mechanics. The one only hinders/limits your view and the other lets you straight up getting morid. Therefore it is only logical that sadako’s condemned is more difficult to archive.
More ways of spreading condemned would be good, that’s why I want ring drawing back, passive condmend, condemned on hooking someone and the generator addon I suggested. I don’t want her condemned to be as oppressive and annoying like it was in her second version. There it was far too easy to get the condemned kills. In the past I mainly thought of the mechanic as a mechanic to discourage turning off TV’s like it was in her first version and then later as a optional mechanic (which I want it to be again) that if you play it well and skillfully you get your condemned kills. In her second version I would say it was neither of those. It was far too easy to get condemned kills (no real skill requirement) and it didn’t serve as don’t touch the TVs, which is my main complaint ever since the reworks, because it didn’t allow me to play her like I wanted to. Ever since the reworks if you didn’t play her in the condemned way you were just straight up troughing the game. I wish her condemned would be a difficult (not super difficult)/skill requiring/optional but manageable mechanic to archive and it being used as way of don’t turn off TVs again.
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I'm not sure how to feel about TV's still stays on when projecting, I personally think 45 seconds is at a decent spot especially with the return of tapes giving a timer of condemn
Other then that I really like this concept by bringing back sadako 1.0 in it's entirety form while giving more quality of life changes from her kit
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I just thought it might be cool having no cooldown, but shure she would not need it and on the other hand I would free the addon spot of the current iri tape, which I don’t think is worth being an iri. I’m glad you like it.
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I have a few thoughts on this, but let me start by saying these aren't bad ideas at all for a 1.0 return. However, we should remember why Sadako was changed to begin with.
One of the biggest complaints I recall with Sadako was an M1 killer with a power that rarely came into play. As much as I'd like cursed tapes to be cursed while held with gradual condemned, there were reasons survivors would just rush gens and ignore the tapes. Taking a tape to prevent her from teleporting just meant you're going to give yourself a timed debuff, and even if Sadako teleports to you her teleport speed isn't fast enough to do anything by the time a survivor holds W to a new loop, which is a problem all M1 killers face. I remember enjoying Sadako for her unique builds like my personal favorite combo VCR+Deadman's Switch (RIP to both) but there's a good reason the condemned slugging was popular, because normal gameplay against survivors who could loop decently meant losing matches to the gen speeds. Granted, this was also before the gen changes, but if you play someone like Myers without tombstone you'll know what a good team can accomplish pretty easily. Even with Sadako's teleport being unrestricted, it would take too long to deal with survivors at good loops to make much use of it.
I do like that current Sadako has a interactive nature to it. Do tapes or risk condemned. I do think it needs tuning here and there, but I also believe it's better for Onryo herself and the back and forth. An M1 killer with a good incentive to do something other than gens. It's also why I liked 2.0 Sadako aside the obvious issues it had, because it at least made her power something to consider, not ignore until the last second when 4 gens have popped. Ironically, if you wanted pressure on 1.0 Sadako, you'd hit-and-run, slug, then spam the TV with Iri Tape reactivating it to rack up condemned for slowdown, even if it was rougher to do.
That said, there is a good argument for condemned spam since it's the best way to punish survivors for ignoring her TVs, and it prevents her movement which is also a double-edged sword. Part of me wonders if condemned should just be a global passive over time (at a slower rate I might add) instead of locked to TVs so teleporting isn't restricted aside from survivors grabbing a tape and teleporting isn't restricted as much, but that adds another can of worms to the survivor side.I do think the best way to bring Sadako back to 1.0 is to make TVs work differently. Removing the aura is one step, but how condemned is applied would be another. Even with 3.0 here, TVs should always allow Sadako to move to them, but they each have a condemned cooldown of 40 seconds, 70 if a survivor interacts with them. They can show up as yellow or white if they're ready to apply condemned, for example, then go on cooldown once they apply at least 1 stack. This prevents spam on both 1.0 and 3.0, while retaining the ability for movement. It would also be more lore-accurate considering Sadako can turn on a TV to travel to at will, just in-game the TV has to be on visually to apply the condemned. Heck, you could make an argument for survivors to be able to see TV auras IF they're ready to apply condemned since Sadako could still travel between them regardless.
On top of this, since condemned would be pulled back a tad tapes could apply the original effects regardless of 1.0 or 3.0 since applying condemned via TVs would have a cooldown regardless. Best of both worlds, I'd argue without compromising her recent additions.Post edited by ChaosWam on1 -
Ever since the reworks if you didn’t play her in the condemned way you were just straight up troughing the game. I wish her condemned would be a difficult (not super difficult)/skill requiring/optional but manageable mechanic to archive and it being used as way of don’t turn off TVs again.
the irony is that when i play sadako now, i don't even consider or think about condemn mechanic. it is complete after-thought. I am killing survivors much quicker by just ignoring killer power. that is why i find killer unfun to play. A killer power shouldn't be after thought. it should main focus……. of playing said killer. That is why i dislike playing her. I have better chances to mori survivors with pig boxes than this killer that is suppose be designed around mori's.
It was far too easy to get condemned kills (no real skill requirement)
Sure, a killer could be too easy to play because numbers are over-tuned or not balanced. Nerf numbers than. don't delete killer. Sadako feels deleted, not nerfed.
You can’t compare sadako’s condemned mechanic to dredge’s nightfall. Those are two completly different mechanics. The one only hinders/limits your view and the other lets you straight up getting morid. Therefore it is only logical that sadako’s condemned is more difficult to archive.
what makes you think that dredge's nightfall is not comparable? While yes, one mechanic is direct win condition, other killer powers are INDIRECT win conditions to them being successful. if direct win condition is impractical to acquire than it might as be irrelevant just like…. Dredge nightfall wouldn't have much of a reason to exist if only way to gain nightfall was to sit in a locker for 2 minutes. you can attribute that to any killer power.
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the irony is that when i play sadako now, i don't even consider or think about condemn mechanic.
I also said that current condemned can be rendered useless as well as her teleport. Survivors have far too much control over both aspects and you are completely reliant on survivors ignoring your power. I think her first version would already improve condemned and the other aspects I mentioned.
Nerf numbers than. don't delete killer. Sadako feels deleted, not nerfed.
Well that’s how I feel since the first rework. Playing her more chase oriented was like throwing the game ever since the rework. You could just exchange the word “nerf” with “buff” and you would have my point of view of her first version.
what makes you think that dredge's nightfall is not comparable?
Dredges nightfall just gives you a slight disadvantage, but it hasn’t that big of an impact while sadako’s condemned can straight up turn matches into 3vs1, which gives you a huge advantage, so this ability should have some difficulty to archive. I don’t think it should be as bad as it is now, where you rely on survivors ignoring condemned, but it should also not be as oppressive as it was in 2.0. Making it spread like in her first version and making it a bit easier is in my opinion the best way. When we would revert her she would have more than twice as many opportunities to spread condemned by the shorter cooldown (100s-45s), condemned on hook and locked in condemned, those 3 parts would have made spreading condemned already a lot easier. Then the chase buffs might encourage more tape grabs, which then would spread passive condemned on them and it might lead to more condemned kills.
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even if Sadako teleports to you her teleport speed isn't fast enough to do anything by the time a survivor holds W to a new loop, which is a problem all M1 killers face.
Her teleport was very useful back then, shure sometimes survivors won the mindgames and ran the opposite direction, but that was often very risky, because they did not know where you would come from. I really loved teleporting somewhere and then survivors did not know where I was and were running around randomly.
As much as I'd like cursed tapes to be cursed while held with gradual condemned, there were reasons survivors would just rush gens and ignore the tapes
My goal isn’t really to encourage tape grabs, because I find them turning off TVs pretty annoying. On the other hand I do think that the combination of all the buffs to her condemned and chase would encourage taking them for two different reasons. 1. Survivors might dislike that she can come out of a TV next to them and don’t like to get chased by her, which she would now be stronger in. 2. Her condemned would spread a lot faster than it has been in the past and now they have to deliver more tapes to remove it.
I do like that current Sadako has a interactive nature to it. Do tapes or risk condemned
This is pretty bad in my opinion since it makes her pretty much useless against survivors who know how to play against her and survivors who don’t just loose all the time. Survivors have far too much control over her tp and condemned right now.
Part of me wonders if condemned should just be a global passive over time (at a slower rate I might add) instead of locked to TVs so teleporting isn't restricted aside from survivors grabbing a tape and teleporting isn't restricted as much, but that adds another can of worms to the survivor side.
I would like if they did not make spreading condemned based around teleporting, but I don’t see behavior doing that honestly. It would also be relatively difficult to find a balance there.
I do think the best way to bring Sadako back to 1.0 is to make TVs work differently. Removing the aura is one step, but how condemned is applied would be another. Even with 3.0 here, TVs should always allow Sadako to move to them, but they each have a condemned cooldown of 40 seconds, 70 if a survivor interacts with them. They can show up as yellow or white if they're ready to apply condemned, for example, then go on cooldown once they apply at least 1 stack. This prevents spam on both 1.0 and 3.0, while retaining the ability for movement. It would also be more lore-accurate considering Sadako can turn on a TV to travel to at will, just in-game the TV has to be on visually to apply the condemned.
This could also be a nice way of doing it. Agree with everything. Just giving the TVs a condemned cooldown instead of a condemned and teleport cooldown would probably solve most of my issues.
Heck, you could make an argument for survivors to be able to see TV auras IF they're ready to apply condemned since Sadako could still travel between them regardless.
I’m not a fan of TV auras except of the one where you have to put in your tape and when you are fully condemned to find a TV. They give survivors such a huge advantage and constant walls hacks( that render your teleport useless) which isn’t very fun.
On top of this, since condemned would be pulled back a tad tapes could apply the original effects regardless of 1.0 or 3.0 since applying condemned via TVs would have a cooldown regardless. Best of both worlds, I'd argue without compromising her recent additions.
Yes this could work. Only to not misunderstand something grabbing a tape would not limit her teleport am I right?
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Yes, my suggestion would make it where you can travel to a TV regardless if it's on or off, with them being 'on' applying condemned on teleport. Whether or not all TVs apply condemned or just the one you target being up to the devs for balancing, but keeping the idea that TVs themselves have an internal condemned cooldown, not the teleport.
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Dredges nightfall just gives you a slight disadvantage, but it hasn’t that big of an impact while sadako’s condemned can straight up turn matches into 3vs1, which gives you a huge advantage, so this ability should have some difficulty to archive.
Just because a power doesn't give you immediate burst advantage does not mean that the power is not as powerful as another power. in fact, a lot of the time, incremental small advantages are stronger then immediate burst advantages because you get intermediate rewards before gaining the big reward which is the kill.
I would argue that yes, nightfall is in fact most powerful then condemn in current iteration of the abilities. I mean this was not always the case but it is the case now. the incremental small advantages far outweight the condemn mechanic and that is true for a lot of killer power. a lot of them are in fact more powerful then condemn. condemn is very weak its current state. Condemn vs strong player does not feel nerfed as i said, it feels deleted on anything other than Midwich elementary school & Gideon's meat packing plant where it is arguably too strong with little to no counter-play.
that is why i don't enjoy playing sadako. the ability before rewarded good macro play vs now that is blank ability.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
I think when they go for only one TV applying condemned then TVs should turn off and make that you can tp to them an addon.
If they go for all TVs spreading it, then like you said.
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Condemned is in theory a lot more powerful than nightfall, the only thing that makes it fair or bad are the conditions, which are to bad right now. Old moris got changed because insta morning was too strong, which is basically sadako’s condemned. Dredge nightfall is in theory worse than condemned, but the conditions are a lot better.
I would argue that yes, nightfall is in fact most powerful then condemn in current iteration of the abilities
Shure, condemned is not in a good spot right now and like you said it feels deleted. My goal is not to nerf it but to buff it, just not as much as it was in 2.0.
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My goal is not to nerf it but to buff it, just not as much as it was in 2.0.
my problem is that your buffing the mechanic in ways that are uninteractive for survivor. survivor holding tape and building passively is bad. it wasn't good design in original version either because it encourages proxy-following survivors to build condemn and as result of that, survivor would almost never want to take the tape. The increase in radius for TV makes the condemn mechanic too strong indoor maps, even more than what it is currently.
2.0 Sadako had right ideas for how fair mori mechanic should work. It only needs small tweaks here and there. it is changed now. until bvhr goes back to this killer, there is little to talk about.
Edit:
Here's an idea of what should been updated in 2.0 Sadako.
- Global condemn reduced from 0.75 to 0.5 condemn stack after successfully teleporting
- Teleporting to a television puts the television on seperate cooldown for 45 seconds.[Does not turn off television]
- Teleporting no longer has 10 second cooldown.
- Cooldown for turning off a television when picking up a tape/inserting a tape reduced from 70 second to 25 seconds.
- Turning off a television no longer affects Sadako's ability to teleport to a television, it only affect the survivors ability to pick-up/insert tapes into televisions.
- Decreases the condemn build up for breaking a tape from 2 condemn stacks to 1 stack.
- Ring drawing implement into base-kit. A survivor that completes a healing action from injured to healthy gains 1 stack.
- [New effect] Ring drawing: The survivor who is healed from injured to healthy gains 1 condemn stack.
- Successfully placing a tape into a television now removes 5 condemn stacks from 3 stacks.
Currently, they have a mechanic where you gain 1 condemn stack for hooking survivors with a tape. Perhaps this could be added where you gain 0.5 condemn stacks to the entire team for putting a survivor into the dying state. This would be experimental change as i am unsure for how aggressive this would push condemn build-up.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on1 -
my problem is that your buffing the mechanic in ways that are uninteractive for survivor. survivor holding tape and building passively is bad. it wasn't good design in original version either because it encourages proxy-following survivors to build condemn and as result of that, survivor would almost never want to take the tape.
When you look in the wiki you find out behavior already had very effective restrictions against it, so this is not really effective. I can copy them for you in here if you want. I only didn’t put them in the original post, because it would make things too complicated.
The increase in radius for TV makes the condemn mechanic too strong indoor maps, even more than what it is currently.
But the range is smaller than it would be with global and all TVs. How is it stronger than currently, except that more TVs would be on? I also do not think 4-8m is that big of a deal. I also addressed the TV spam up there, so it does not infinitely spread through walls by giving TVs their own condemned cooldown instead of a tp cooldown.
- Tv spam is really bad and now having to spam even more is not good. Personally I think condemned should just be on a global timer which gives stacks every …seconds.
- I don’t quite get what is put on cooldown in this TV?-The tp?
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- Probably fine, but I dislike this mechanic very much. It is not fun for survivors deal with that.
- Don’t know, because I think making ring drawing with its healing effect basekit is too much. It should stay an addon in my opinion.
- Probably fine
- Don’t know
Perhaps this could be added where you gain 0.5 condemn stacks to the entire team for putting a survivor into the dying state
That would encourage slugging again. Even tho I would like it, but will never happen. I know it’s difficult to suggest something in this game.
I don’t know what to think of it. Your idea feels kinda weird like you get condemned from everything and I simply just like 1.0 as much or even more as you like 2.0.
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