New mori last survivor without mori sucks.
So I have an issue with this last survivor mori, slugging for the 4k with a mori basekit has become a lot more prominent in the games I've played the last few hours than I've ever experienced before this "rework" retiring an entire addon that allows it as well as just giving it to killers basekit sucks from a survivor perspective, I had 0 hooks in a couple games and got slugged at the end of the game so I could get mori'd by a killer.
From a gameplay perspective, this blows, having to use an entire perk slot just to pick myself up before they can mori me, sucks, and then what's the point of the hatch if I don't run unbreakable? Just have a nice killer that won't use the mori and hopefully put me on the hatch to escape? Not happening as often as it probably should with this change.
I hate this "finisher mori" system that bhvr are trying to force upon us, they tried it a couple years back and reverted it cause it sucked, this one sucks too, don't make moris basekit for all killers, it promotes awful gameplay for the other side while making someone else feel great. It's unhealthy
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In that situation it's a lost game for you nothing you can do either die on hook or by mori. This version is just the yellow mori basekit the other version were far worse and DID encourage slugging for that 4K. This version the killer gets nothing other than just a mori animation.
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This still encourages slugging, just being able to kill the survivor without a chance to wiggle off or anything before you're sacrificed, no just sit there and take a death cause it's basekit.
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The idea of Finisher Mori as a whole is simply unhealthy.
By hiding the Mori animation behind a 4k, it automatically incentivizes people to slug for the 4k...and we all know how fun and riveting it is.
Not to mention it also indirectly encourages proxy-camping/tunnelling, reduce Killer variety and perk variety in order to get that juicy animation (which I guarantee will get old really quick and will be met with more scorn than a normal 4k, it would be a matter of time before Mori animations are seen as a form of BM like "let me rub my victory in your face a bit longer with this cutscene") since when Survivors start to get better, weaker/slower/M1 Killers tend to struggle more and need to play more aggressively to compete.
Hiding Mori behind 4k is, in my opinion, only going to make people hate those animations and will make the game even less casual/newcomer-friendly than it already is.
There's a reason why the dreadful basekit Unbreakable was attempted alongside the previous Finisher Mori PTB: otherwise every single games would just end in a slugfest. Hell, during that PTB there were more bleedout games than normal even though people could get up because Killers wanted that animation after tunnelling the first 2 Survivors.
It's possible BHVR want to monetize additional Mori animations and want to make Mori animations more common to justify the purchase, however it would only make problems we already have even worse.
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There's also a rampant issue of survivors giving up on first hook that you get further punished for with this.
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Surly by now people can see that slugging is just part of the game and not "toxic" like most survivors make out. I think it's clear the Devs decision to bring in the mori system shows that slugging isn't going anywhere. Some might say it's "unhealthy" but clearly is part of the game so hopefully people will start acknowledging it for what it is... Just a playstyle/tactic and stop blaming killers for doing it accusing them of being toxic.
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Yeah, i know it is not toxic, what I'm saying is if you're playing about an hour a day or so and you get slugged in 2-3 matches, it gets really boring to sit there doing nothing in a game, which this is definitely promoting.
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I don't think the finisher mori is the problem. Slugging is the problem. All they need to do is make is so when a survivor is self healed to 99% then they can crawl and continue to heal for 30-45 seconds at which time a survivor is able to heal themselves back to injured state. Problem solved.
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New basekit mori
Hooks respawn after sacrifice
The days pass and perks such as Boil Over and Flip Flop become the worst perks in the game
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From a gameplay perspective, having no counterplay to something sucks, and i understand that the game can never have counterplay to everything. But something that's in the basekit should have something in the opposing basekit to counterplay that thing.
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The finisher mori is not what incentives slugging for 4K. It's the hatch and how it works. If you want to reduce slugging for the 4K, then you need to change up the hatch so that killers don't feel helpless at getting the 4K if they kill the 3rd survivor.
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I did not really see an increase today. However, I would have to say that slugging for the 4K (and slugging in general) needs to be adressed at some point.
Slugging for pressure is totally fine, slugging to avoid something like DS or a Flashlight Save is also fine. But most slugging I encounter nowadays is just to keep people on the ground to waste their time until bleedout.
And well, slugging for the 4K is just a Killer who has already won the game, prolonging it for their ego. (Sure, some people will start yapping that there are Adepts or Challenges, but it is quite clear that slugging for the 4K happens far more often, simply because a Killer thinks they need a 4K and it would be unacceptable if the last Survivor gets a pity escape via Hatch while only one Gen was done, meaning the Killer clearly won)
But I would say that overall the issue is slugging, not the ability to mori the last remaining Survivor. This is good IMO, since then people see more Mori Animations, because they were quite rare after Moris got rightfully nerfed.
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I feel like they could do more testing on multiple pbes and seeing how to improve it before forcing something onto live and have it plague people that are just trying to wind down after work or something to have fun. I personally think that you may be right in this case, it was just frustrating to get slugged in 4-5 matches almost back to back with nothing to do but twiddle my thumbs waiting for the killer to either finally catch the other guy, give up and hook me or my bleed out timer finally giving way.
I feel like making a killer 4k shouldn't be the priority over hatch mechanics cause they kinda blow, can't really think of a solution to it, but maybe making it so that a killer victory is seen as a 3k rather than a 4k may help the slugging a bit? Just in the cases of adept.
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I think at some point something like Basekit Unbreakable (obviously not Unbreakable as the Perk, but a way to pick yourself up after meeting some conditions) needs to be implemented. Because slugging just to waste the time of others is way too much currently and at this point it is not a "strategy" anymore when a Killer decides to slug the whole team at 5 Gens. Because a Killer does not need pressure at this point or at least they have enough pressure after 3 people are slugged to start hooking and actually play the game.
Let alone that letting Survivors bleed out for 4 minutes is not needed anymore. Killers said that this can happen when a Hook was used, now we have Hooks which respawn and it still happens.
And I guess people who play like this and do this to ruin it for the other side, will be responsible for something like Basekit Unbreakable.
When it comes to slugging for the 4K, I always had the opinion that a Hatch Escape should count as a Kill for the Killer. If the Survivor escapes via Hatch, they survive, get the BPs and Emblems, but the Killer should also get their BPs and Emblems like if they killed the last Survivor. Because in the end, a Killer does not lose anything when a Survivor escapes via Hatch, they clearly won the game and IMO it would reduce the amount of slugging for the 4K.
However, as of late I think that most slugging for the 4K is actually done for the ego. Where my solution would not do anything.
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I like that hatch solution actually, it makes sense to not give it to the killer as it's basically their last hope of escape.
As for the 4k you may be right, but sometimes either the Survivor is in some really strong loop or the killer isn't that proficient that they can't down them fast enough that you're laying there for a while before you're even a thought again and at that point it's boring to just be sitting waiting for something to happen that's out of your control.
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Are you saying that killers should have something in their basekit to help them slug? Because I think there is a valid argument that currently survivors don't have a great counter to slugging basekit.
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No, not at all, what I mean is currently in the killers basekit they have more means than necessary to slug while survivors basically only have Unbreakable which you have to give up a perk slot for when killers don't have to give up anything to slug, there should definitely be something in the basekit for survivors to be able to get themselves up in some way, whether it puts you in deep wounds after or something from the sheer pain you caused yourself getting up or what I don't know, but there should be some sort of countermeasure in place to stop it from being such common ground.
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There was a base kit counter trial years ago, survivors could get up from dying state and it was abused so much it was removed. Slugging is no different than being hooked, both have a timer except slugs have more time. There is no basekit to get off the hook unless face camped so why is there so much talk about base kit counter to slugging where survivors can get back up willy nilly. Yes it's boring being slugged but so is being on the hook boring, can't even move on the hook. If anything slug timer should be reduced to faster bleed out if the 4min is too long for survivors. Certainly shouldn't be base kit counter.
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I disagree about it not being toxic. Slugging for the 4k forces the third survivor to wait bleeding out while the fourth gets an almost impossible situation. They at best they usually will pick their teammate up. It's not fun for either of them. Why should one player get to force two others into a situation like that?
Seems like something that makes the game worse for the last two survivors. The killer usually already has a win with the third player down. Sounds toxic to me. Just give a hatch race and don't make two players wait in an awful situation.
For context, I play killer about 30% of the time and have only ever slugged for a 4k against bully squads. My feeling is that people who want to bully can get bullied back.
Fully understood that others don't see it that way, but wanted to make sure this opinion was out there.
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The update just came out, people just wanna see the new free mori in action. It'll probably get better.
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Agreed.
As someone who plays killer, I think slugging for 4k, tunneling, and proxy camping are all problems that need to get fixed. They all make the game not fun for the targeted survivor(s). Maybe it's not true for other people, but this update is going to make the game worse for me in a lot of my survivor matches (I play about 70:30 survivor:killer).
I also don't like moris in general, and I refuse to use them as killer. I get that it's a horror game, but watching some of the moris is creepy af. I really don't want to see it start happening every match. For now, I've stopped playing survivor.
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That was out of necessity due to the 4k mori system.
This one is a little different to that but still promotes the slug to get the 4k with a final mori at the end. There needs to be something in place to stop slugging.
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This mindset should never be a thing "it will probably get better" doesn't mean it isn't an issue now, and doesn't mean it will get better, something has to give eventually.
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But there already is something in place, unbreakable perk... Killers have to use up a perk slot to counter the constant flashlight and flash bangs (no real basekit counter for them unless the killer is faceing the wall, which in many maps isn't an option). With the speed that gens fly killers are pretty much forced to use at least one regres perk to stand a chance. I don't see an issue with survivors having to use up a perk slot to counter slugging with unbreakable. They still have 3 other slots to aid them in chases so they don't get downed to begin with which would prevent being slugged.
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Your post is also speculation, but you think things will get worse. The people that already slug for a 4k are already desperate enough for a "complete victory" that they slugged even before the update, that won't change. I personally doubt people will slug any more for the 4k after this update, most regular players will just treat it as a neat little bonus they can get every now and then when they catch the last survivor.
But that's just my speculation. What I one hundred percent agree with is that when there's 2 survivors left, being slugged for the 4k sucks, is boring for everyone, and BHVR should absolutely improve that aspect of the game somehow.
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Look away, kiss a wall, basekit is looking around and chasing off also.
I also wouldn't be opposed to something for killer basekit to make it harder after so many blinds or something.
But taking away something that gives you choice in a game isn't a very good mentality for your game where you can be diverse in builds, having to run a perk to stop something that's getting worse shouldn't be a thing.
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If I've learned anything from playing the game since 2016, it always gets worse before something gets implemented to stop the issue.
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If that's basekit then basekit to counter slugging is don't get caught. In an open map kissing the wall isn't an option because it's all open. Chasing people off means leaving the survivor in the ground (slugging) which is what survivors find boring and when breaking pallets or vaulting there is no option to look away. Just have to eat the flashlight every time. Like I said no real basekit to counter it, there is only lightborn. So if killers have to use lightborn to counter something that can't be countered otherwise then survivors can bring unbreakable as for as I'm concerned
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No the issue with slugging is being forced to sit there with no end in sight cause the killer is off gallivanting, just going for a hit before a pick up to stop the save is fine.
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As somebody who has rarely experienced true "slugging" in the past, that wasn't without reason (it was very rare for me), slugging seems to have become much more frequent since the Mori change. Any trial I made the last 2 (with the exception of one trial) where I died, the Killer has slugged the 3rd and spent ages finding the 4th, or it's been a game of slug tag.
I (ignorantly) assumed Cypress Mori basekit would just give options for the Killer at the end, and they'd play as normal. From my experience the game has become just a time-wasting experience as a Killer goes off searching, and the final survivor ends up hiding, and it's just so dull it's unbelieveable.
I genuinely believed that Moris should stay as they were, but if they had to change anything, Cypress basekit was the way to go. That was a mistake. The devs need to bring the Offering back and remove the basekit, because from a survivor perspective this is unhealthy.
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So unbreakable solves that issue, while the killer is galavanting survivors can pick themselves up. I played a match and slugged all 4 survivors because they were all close together. While I was hooking 1 another survivor recovered from dying state, healed the other 2 survivors, ran off and all healed themselves. It is a counter, just have to use it.
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You're misunderstanding the point I'm making entirely, it's ignorant, taking away skill expression from players in the form of perks for a build is stupid and nonsensical, being forced to run unbreakable is not fun.
On top of that, flip flop, power struggle And boil over are currently 3 useless perks because of rampant slugging, making 3 perks useless because of something that we can't do anything against and being forced to use 1 perk is a bandaid fix that needs to be addressed.
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Also also, you can only use unbreakable once, if you use it and then get slugged again, what then? Just sit there more cause you used your counter?
Unhealthy
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I never anticipated slugging-whining threads changing to target the new Mori basekit, but it actually makes a lot of sense when I see it. It's the perfect scapegoat.
People were making near-daily threads about slugging before, now the Mori-basekit is there to point fingers at, and frankly, that's not fair to the Mori.
People slugged for 4K before, and the ability to finish the last one really wouldn't change anything for these people (including myself). If I feel like sweating for a 4K, I'll slug you, because it's the absolutely most logical move, due to the unreliable nature of hatch RNG. If I have worked hard to kill everybody else, I am definitely not giving you a chance to escape. Mori or no Mori, doesn't change that.
I often let people go, but let's keep in mind, that's not how the game is supposed to be played. The Killer is supposed to be merciless. You aren't supposed to whine this much about being killed as part of playing the role of "Victim" in a video game about Victims and Killers.
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It isn't a scapegoat, ive noticed a correlation in games the past day and a bit since the update has come out that slugging has become more rampant than before, so no scapegoat, just things I've noticed.
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the past day
It's a single day, not even 24 hours (at least in EU, it went live only 19 hours ago). You should give it more time, before making the conclusion that it's because of the Mori, and not just you being unfortunate for a day.
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Other people in this same thread have also noticed the same thing.
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Perks are part of the game, they are there to aid the killer, to aid the survivor. Tactical choice of perks to counter likely strategies used by the opponent is part of the skill of the playing the game. Go into a match unprepared and it will be tough. Like I said, flashlights, flash bangs no base kit counter, no choice to take being blinded after every pallet break, every vault, every pick up attempt in an open area. No basekit for countering gen rushing, forced to use regress perks.
If basekit unbreakable is implementated to counter slugging then killers should get basekit counter to flashlight and regres basekit. Based on your explanation, killers shouldn't be forced to run perks as a counter to something they can't do anything against.
Another basekit counter to being slugged is your team. It is 4 v 1 game after all so the 4 should work together... If they don't then that's down to the team, killers shouldn't be punished by making it harder for them because the team can't work together.
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Maybe it's more common because people want to try it out?
I haven't seen it being used once so far because killers crush most survivors because the Distortion crutches were taken off
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I dont see how a basekit end mori could do anythinf to make the game worse. The killers always slugged the last 2 for 4k. If the killer didnt slug the last 2 for the 4k its only because they kinda care about giving the last survivor a chance instead of being seen as "another one of those killers". You wouldnt see slugging any more often than it alredy has been. If they want a 4k badly they will always slug, if they dont they hook 3rd and look for you. Ive played several killer rounds where i just hook 3rd and found hatch, moried the person trying to get out the gate because at the end of the day thats just what ur supposed to do. And bhvr wants to incentivise killing survivors instead of farming or letting them go because its how the game was designed. So being able to mori wont make someone more likely to go "i should slug them" if they dont alredy play like that
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The main thing this mori is doing is ignoring the fact that before you had a smidgen of a chance to at least wiggle out and maybe find hatch but now you don't even have that.
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And theres nothing wrong with that. If they ever remove hook suicides people will complain they lost their 4% chance to unhook and completely survive lol
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When there's perks locked behind pay walls that help the wiggle, yes there is.
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At most you have a 1% chance of wiggling out and finding a hatch before going down again. Especially since they now repair hooks, and perks never saved anyone wiggling solo unless they were on a top floor exploit which they now added hooks on all upper floors.
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Whether or not the new mori system encourages more slugging, slugging for a 4k is bm. There's no need to make someone wait while you search for the next two minutes to get the last survivor. Also, why would someone take away the chance for hatch? It's intentionally rng based so the last survivor can have a chance at getting out.
On the other side, I know a lot of killers hate survivors teabagging, constant flashlight blinds, and bully squads.
I guess everyone has their own idea of what's bm or toxic, but for me that's anything that makes another player's experience worse than it has to be for no reason. And slugging for 4k puts the last player in a situation that the hatch is literally meant to let them have a chance of escaping.
But to be fair, I also think bm includes tunneling, camping, that w+d thing some jerks do as killer, teabagging, and especially waiting at the gate to teabag. I used to think bully squads were bm, but it turns out they're mostly easy matches since they try too hard to aggro the killer. Anyway, just my opinions :)
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yup I agree, no one asked for this, and the mori should be earned not handed out. It’s just not right. Who even asked for this. What happened to offerings. More reason to slug at end game yay 🙄 maybe see how the community feels about things like this instead of implementing these changes due to “numbers” if killers aren’t using moris that’s their fault.
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the mori should be earned not handed out
A quote from a dev: "“A mori is how you’d expect The Killer to finish a well-played match, so it made sense to go in that direction." Source: https://deadbydaylight.com/news/mori-rework/
The phrase "well-played" signifies that the devs consider a killer getting a 4k to be earning the mori. Or, you could rearrange that a bit and say the act of earning a 4k unlocks the finisher mori.
if killers aren’t using moris that’s their fault.
Game developers don't really like it when they go through the trouble of designing and programming a game mechanic and then it's barely used. If killers aren't using the mechanic, then that would suggest there's an issue that needs to be addressed. That's not the players' fault, that's a game design problem. They create a unique mori for every single killer and even some cosmetics; they want the mori to be seen.
It's also a really bad sign of a game's future if the developers say that when an element of their game is failing it's the players' fault. That's not how we want the developers to treat their game or their playerbase.
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I, for one, vote to have the last survivor mori removed.
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I just re-read this and it strikes me as quite concerning that BHVR would want to reward getting a 4k without considering the methods used to do it.
That suggests that they'd consider tunneling, camping, and slugging for 4k to be part of a well played game. But those tactics are broadly considered to make the game unfun to play for their target.
I should note that I play killer as well, but I avoid those things because I know how it feels to be on the receiving end. Why would I ever play as survivor if I got tunneled, camped, and slugged every game?
I'd say that minimally, they should code in a check to not reward those playstyles. Like only reward the mori if the third survivor hadn't been slugged for more than 40 seconds, don't award the mori if survivors were repeatedly getting chased right after they were unhooked, etc. Those should be pretty trivial to code, just call the time function for whatever language the game's written in, put a few if statements to += a counter, check counters at endgame, and bam: encourage good play.
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New mori system is silly. It in essence takes away a health state for the final survivor, makes finding the hatch harder since killers are so sweaty for that mori (and all around every killer is unbearably sweaty for a 4k). Time to add a second hatch honestly.
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Claps- say it louder for the ones in the back. I couldn’t agree more. The slugging is at a high and it’s making it want to play. This needs to be fixed. The constant mori also gets old because we can’t skip it.
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