Another patch another miserable experience for players
is it worth playing anymore? Well, as a survivor… I’m an average gamer but have 100s of hours in this game…as killer I’ll get 4k almost every game, everything is designed to take me straight to a killer and if I’m getting looped no worries, speed boost.. As a survivor, what’s the point? Killers perk 12 second bonus, survivor perk, 0.5 sec bonus…
Killers have speed boost, 101 aura perks and every tool under the sun to make the game a breeze - in fact it’s not a game, it’s too easy with aura reveal, invisibility, teleporting, gen blow ups, there is zero challenge to playing killer. It is the single most zero skill game mode available today…
As a survivor it’s just how long until you die, there’s no hide, there’s no seek, since they know exactly where you are at all times and if you have the audacity to do anything as survivor you’re punished. Even now with predator revealing auras after rudely escaping a chase (yet distortion made it “too easy” for survivors.
It’s not fun, it’s not challenging, it’s not interesting. So what is the point. Why is it so hard to balance a game so both sides face a challenge and require skill.. it used to be better than this and with every step they take it’s just dull, lifeless, pointless..
Comments
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You are not suppose to run from the killer for 5 gens… The game is designed that way so the killer WILL eventually down you, if mistakes weren't made.
Survivors also have aura reading and speed boosts as much as killers.
I mean… If the game is so hard for soloq - how is that not a challenge? How is that not a: - "Test of your skill"?
To me, the problem with soloq: - unexperienced teammates, trolls, "giving uppers". If I have a good team and I couldn't escape - means I played bad, I need to play better.
Any teambased PVP game have the same issue - Unexperienced players preventing you from winning.
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ah yes the classic 101 perk build killers run
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ahh yes, please exaggerate it more, we need that punchline
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I've honestly been playing more solo queue lately after avoiding it for years, and being forced to play solo queue due to my friends moving on with their life and doing other things and to be honest, I've been having tons of fun with it. I get the occasional match where I'm wondering what's happening when the team is down or making no progress. But for the most part, it's been good. I've escaped the vast majority of matches, seen a different variety of killers and also had fun looping against them (normally loop up to 2-3 gens, or even less if the killer is aware that they have to put pressure on other survivors and will leave me). Also, I've had good moments where I've remanded stealthy avoiding a chase and that's worked… It's not all about gaining the killers attention all the time, that's something people should learn…
Also using exaggeration in your message for "101 aura perks" just makes me not want to even treat this post seriously, I'm just seeing it as the average user that have "loads of hours" complaining. If you're tired of the game, have a break and come back when you're better frame of mind…6 -
sulking because I said 101 instead of 43 doesnt invalidate the post.
the simply fact is the game is no longer a game nor is it fun. The overwhelming feedback supports this.
you enjoying your life in your bubble is great for you. Well done. Your experience isn’t that of the vast majority that highlight this is no longer a game, or fun, or even a challenging game.. it’s just aura perk, killer sees you, aura perk killer downs you, gens explode, mori death, game over..Post edited by BoxGhost at7 -
If bad players are the reason why do bad survivor players go killer and walk a 4k every game… maybe.. just maybe and this may shock you, the game is heavily unbalanced and weighted so strongly to killers that survivor is a pointless part of the game now.
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What region/ mmr are you in that you escape "vast majority" of matches in solo que? Or was this a sample of like 5 games? Doesn't pass the smell test.
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if killer is so easy and survivor is so boring, why don't you just play killer?
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Wait so we can call out the exaggerated 101 perk comment but we wont call out the survivors also have speed boosts "as much as killer" comment?
Yes, survivors have speed boosts, the fastest there was (BGP) was nerfed which I am not arguing against, but it only gave you a few seconds of speed boost. Same with SB. Yet killers have Machine Learning which gives speed boost for 60 seconds each time it procs, PWYF, and multiple others including add ons.
Yes survivors have aura read but not nearly as many as killer and there are stealth killers where aura read does nothing the entire time they are in that form.
Don't call out one exaggeration without calling out the other just because its on the same side of the fence as you.
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Personally I dont play killer because its too easy. It plays itself and I get bored after just a few matches. Survivor offers an actual challenge and this comment just confirms my belief that those who play killer only do because they can't handle survivor.
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- me and many other people already complained about haste being slapped just like that onto survivor and killer perks and how PWYF is an unhealthy perk
- aura reading on survivors yields more power than aura reading on killer, but still, me and many other people heavily vouched for tweaks to perks like NTH and were definitely against PTB Zanshin and Predator.
The catch is, i actually saw killers adapt to what survivor play far easier than survivors, because survivors usually don't even try.
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The reason I said that is because you clearly don't play enough killer. I mean, I said that just as a simple solution of if you don't like it don't play it, but I also said that because you did play more killer you'd start to get it. Yeah, killer is really easy for the first matches. Like, the first 50 or 100 matches. You can go on such a massive winstreak and never even break a sweat for months, but when you crack into that higher MMR, killer is anything but free.
I mean, if you wanna talk perks and speed boosts, let's talk perks and speed boosts. Do you like being able to hit survivors? I sure do. Unfortunately survivors don't like being hit, but Dead Hard and Off the Record does the trick quite nicely. Maybe you're trying to play nice and not go for someone off hook, instead opting to chase an injured survivor you found. Nope, some guy with over a minute of free endurance just popped in behind them and there's nothing you can do about it because you're apparently tunnelling. A few minutes later that same Off the Record user heals up and its time for round two, you get a good first hit but 20 seconds later he uses Dead Hard right under a pallet. What could you have done about that? Absolutely nothing, you either get stunned, respect the pallet and have it be dropped or give the survivor a free speed boost. After a grueling chase, you hook him, then hook someone else, but that same guy comes right back for another bodyblock that you can't do anything about, but this time you decide to just brute force the endurance and get him down once more, but nope, you got stabbed by DS despite the fact that you hooked someone else in between hooking him. So you go through yet another grueling chase as gens are being done left and right, and because this guy has had about 4 second chances, his team has had enough time to get every gen finished and his adrenaline pops, giving him health and a speedboost right out the exit gates.
Now imagine having to deal with this kind of survivor 4 times in the same game.
I haven't even brought up the catch 22 Unbreakable - DS, can't pick em up, can't leave em down. What about flashlights and pallet stuns? Survivors can just dive right under and there's nothing you can do about it when Background Player exists and someone can hide 4 miles away. Well, maybe they're up against a wall with no pallet nearby, surely there's no way they can get an angle with a flashlight. Don't need one! Use a flashbang, if the killer is close enough there is no way to look away from it.
I am barely scratching the surface, dude. What about survivor perks in the past? MfT? FtP+Buckle Up? Old Mettle of Man? Killer's all fun and games now, but if you spent as much time raising your MMR as killer as you did survivor you'd learn what it's like to have to put in 4x as much effort for none of the reward when survivors have 12 different ways of screwing you over just for playing the objective.
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Anyone who says killer is easy clearly hasn't played killer for very long. When you go up against good survivors on a m1 killer you get humbled pretty fast.
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I think your problem here is your taking the game way too seriously, like you understand I have over 3,000 hours I've seen all kind of bullshit on both sides, I've seen a lot of terrible stuff from the patches on both sides, any "feedback" that this community gives which they redeem for a necessary change are just straight up nonsense. If you're not having fun that isn't the developers fault they still earn money whilst you're complaining, and they aren't gonna be listening to this "overwhelming feedback" to make the standard game "more fun", by changing all the stuff which you people redeem to be changed to make it fun, as the game is fine how it is now and is in a way better state then it was years ago, secondly if you aren't having fun maybe it's time to have a break and do something else productive with your life, your obviously tired and strained of Dead by Daylight. Furthermore, if you're going to complain about "aura perks", than perhaps you should all look at this and give me an analysis.
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Or, and hear me out, OR IDGAF if I get a 4k or a 4 out because i dont sweat it, its a game, I am here to have fun and hope that the people I play against do too.
Yes, I have gone up against good survivors, I have been 4 outed multiple times, I don't care. However those matches are few and far between. Killer is easy. The goal is for killers to get a 60% kill rate, meaning the goal for survivors BY THE DEVS is to have a 40% escape rate. Try telling me again killer is not easy.
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…you do know that you not caring about "winning" as killer doesn't correlate to the role's difficulty correct?
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This conversation is one of the most recurrent things on in the community.
No, killer is not just generally easy. Now it doesn't get really challenging until you're multiple hundreds (if not thousands) of hours into the game, but when you get to the point where you are facing predominantly strong survs (as in most teams have at least 2-3 with 2K+ hours), killer is a proper challenge.
At <100 hours, killer is a joke for anyone with experience in DBD, on either side. And only less of a joke from there to about 500 hours. Not to gatekeep, but anyone with less than a few hundred hours in killer talking about how easy it is doesn't have an opinion worth a #########.
Now because the game is imbalanced and not really designed to be fair, there are exceptions. If you're a Blight/Nurse main with a ton of hours who sweats and tunnels, there isn't going to really be a point where you're not winning most of your games.
But for 80% of the killer roster, once you hit that soft cap, that "kIlLeR is eZ" thing evaporates real quick. But most people saying that killer is easy won't ever see that, because they are almost all dedicated surv mains who aren't inclined to put in that much time. They will lie and say they did of course, but no one with thousands of hours in killer would say killer is just flat out easy.
As far a the solo surv experience (which I have thousands of hours with), the main determinant of how it's going to go is the experience of your teammates. There are other factors of course, but who you get paired with is king of the hill, and the only challenger is RNG, which is generally the god of DBD for either side.
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60% kill rate, 40% escape rate.
Killer is baby mode easy right now.
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Hey there. I think that you got a couple of things a bit wrong there, BUT I really don't like this forums dendency to take a total dump on anyone with a slightly non-conformative opinion, because thats pretty rude. By just antagonising everyone like you we will never reach any consense but just dig deeper and deeper trenches.
You see, one of the big problems with the game is that its balanced about the highest level of play, and thus many low to mid to high tier players scratch their heads how this all makes sense. I might not be the very best killer, but I guess that I am pretty good, because I am consistently playing against survivors who, even though I am giving my best, are a true challenge for me to beat.
I remember when I started, I was keeping notes on my performance and I thought that I was like one of the best killers, with a 75-83% kill rate; but that was just my MMR raising. At one point I broke into the upper echolons of the game, and from there on it was just a sweat fest that never stopped. So if you think killer is way, way too easy and they are never challenged, believe me, thats just the thin sugar coating on the ginormous sweat cake. If you wanna take a peak, I would glad to make a date with you were I stream on hour or two of my gameplay.
The big problem this game faces, and that BHVR has yet to find an answer for, is this: the 6.1 update leveled the playing field, after the killer role had been the survivors plaything for way too long, and this pulled the rug under many survivors feet, who where clutching hard on way overtuned perks and safety nets, sending the whole survivor community into a 2 days blind stupor. BUT in true survivor fashion, most eventually shook off the shock, dusted themselves off and adapted. And boy did they adapt: many learned that chilling on a gen together was stupid, and they split up. And many learned that opening random chests or cleansing random totems was stupid, so they stuck to gens. This new breed of survivors stuck to gens and soon killers were faced with 3 gens popping after their first chase. This in turn lead to killers hardcore tunneling and camping and this whole cycle continued for a while, trimming and rendering all fat from the game, till all that was left was a lean, mean killing/surviving machine with no time for fun or fooling around or playfulness. Only the win!
And thats where we are now: most of the good players (and even some of the bad) now are extremely efficient - they have to, because most games they will sink if they don't. Killers aren't mindlessly playing a zero skill game, they are used to racing against survivors who even shave of 0,5s or their gen while they are contemplating if they should loop left or right.
And many, many survivors know every trick in the book, are sneaky beyond compare and know every tileset like the back of their hand, 360ing even seasoned killers till their head spins.
And then ther are players like you, thrown into this Malstrom, never finding their footing. You can rage and curse the game, or join some of us to show you the ropes of the game - the real ropes. Its still, lots of fun, but you also need to play quite differently then the game worked pre-6.1
And many seem to have forgotten about all of this, totally blind to the fact how much of a big, unwieldy beast DBD has become, with so many killer powers and perks and combos and techs to learn. What this community could need would be a bit more empathy, and I don't mean Claudettes perk, I mean the real life application.
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Guess what, I also care about the game being fun for both sides, and I rarely secure the 4k, opting instead to give hatch. I don't tend to tunnel, or camp, and I don't tend to slug for the 4k. I don't tend to run more than 1 meta perk and often try out quirky and interesting builds. I have a personal rule of no sacrifices until the 6th hook.
If someone DC's or SoH, then I play out the game still till I've hooked everyone, and anyone who quits gets killed, anyone who tries is allowed to fully repair and leave, or get hatch, whichever is faster.
I've played like this since I started DBD. I used to only sacrifice survivors after I got 8 hooks in the game, but I had to change that rule because it was just becoming impossible to do as Survivors got better. Even with these limitations/principles, I won a lot of my games quite often, and have been steadily improving my MMR... and I'm now hitting the point where playing like this often results in a 2k or less. It's why I like Pig because her kit naturally rewards me for not tunneling or camping because of the slowdown it brings, but even her power has its limits.
It's reaching the point now where I am playing against good teams often. The kind of teams that get 3 generators done by the time you finish your first chase. Slowly I've had to take less quirky builds, be a little more liberal about punishing survivor mistakes, and be more open to a tunnel if it's the obviously best choice to counter what survivors are doing.
My natural proclivity for games is Co-op, survivor actually suits me better as a role to play, but I play killer cause I like game and theme a lot. I play Survivor now about 60% of the time because it's the less stressful role. I can be much more memey on survivor and get away with it than I can on killer.
The point is, I have constantly felt the killer role getting harder and harder the more I've played it, and it sounds like you haven't played it enough to experience that. Often a mistake of mine is punished very harshly in my games now, and opportunities to capitalise on Survivor mistakes become fewer and far between... I'm now at a point that I can easily find myself against a team that will absolutely demolish me, and it's not uncommon to see 2 hooks escapes on my meme builds now, as you'd expect, and even running meta I can get caught with 4 man escapes time to time.
The thing is, despite how hard my games can be sometimes, I know I'm still a long way off of going up against the upper end of what survivors can do/bring... I can feel how far the gulf really is... and the fact you say Killer is easy tells me that you haven't played enough killer to experience it.
I dont want to get anywhere near that rank. As an M1 killer you have to sweat so hard against a strong Survivor team just to function, and the game just isn't fun. Look at Druss N Bubba on Pig. He plays miserably, because that's all he can do to win at his MMR, and I'm sure he's gonna have an aneurysm one day.
I've seen the Survivor builds and akills people I know who are far better than me are going against regularly, and it's horrifyingly strong... and is why survivors at a certain level only go against Nurse, Blight, Sprit, Billy, Chucky and Wesker. Without map mobility and high lethality, you get smoked, and anyone who has played killer any decent length of time understands why.
So unless you've got some strong revolutionary evidence to the contrary, where you're the chosen one that can dominate every and any game you ever play on a killer not in the top 50% of killers...
No killer is not easy.
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the 6.1 update
I was reading through those patch notes yesterday and I concluded that it is my second most hated patch since I first started playing the game. There is literally nothing there that I liked.
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This feels like yet another post from someone who doesn't actually play killer and wants killers to be nerfed. If you're really getting 4K's almost every game, why don't you play competitively or stream full time so you can show everyone how it's done?
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OK why don't you post some of your gameplay to show us how it's done? I won't hold my breath…
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LOL just stop. I don't believe this for 1 second. Post some of your gameplay to show us all how it's done. By the way, I have challenged people like you who make these claims many, many times, and very predictably not a single one has responded yet.
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You do realise, that after learning one side you already have a pretty good understanding of the game and the other's general strengths and weaknesses, right? Now what do you think will happen when you apply all of this while playing against complete beginners?
It's gonna be a blood bath. If you don't play killer, your MMR will be quite low, which means that this is exactly what happens. Of course it will feel like a breeze.
I play solo survivor too and for me it's less of a challenge than killer. Not because I win so often but because even if I do well, there are 3 other people that can lose the match for me. So saying that survivor is overall harder than killer makes little sense at least in solo queue. Even if you are the best survivor of all time, you cannot win a 1v1 against the killer, so that cannot be the metric for difficulty.
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There's already plenty of evidence of playing killer is easy. It doesn't have to proven on this forum, not everyone takes the game so seriously to record their matches.
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Playing survivor is baby mode. There's plenty of evidence to prove it.
See - I can play the same game.
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There's no evidence of that to back it up statistically or nobody has had winstreaks comparable to killer mains. The overall consensus is that survivor sucks, survivor is always bribed to play the game due to killer being the baby mode and the overall most fun role to play. There's not a single metric you can point at that favors survivor.
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"Why is it so hard to balance a game so both sides face a challenge and require skill.."
Balance in this game is incredibly difficult. Both sides are completely different mechanically, and have completely different objectives. Not to mention the vast expanse between a competent SWF and new solo survivors. It's like when killer players say that they should have access to sixteen perk slots, as survivors have sixteen in total. Sounds good on paper, but in practice it would be a complete disaster. Game balance is extremely messy. Especially for this game.
Although, if it's not hard to achieve, I'd be interested in hearing about a simple and easy way to fix the game's balance.
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So there is statistical evidence to back up your claim? If so, please send me a link - I'd love to see it. The insane killer winstreaks you're referring to are from the top 0.0001% of players in the world, so please stop generalizing the entire killer experience based on the performance of the world's top players. The only "consensus" that survivor sucks is from survivor-only player who refuse to player killer yet claim that it's incredibly easy based on zero evidence and zero experience. By nature of the game, you're going to have a lot more survivor players because the overall player pool needs to be 80% survivors to be balanced. So of course there's going to be more noise from the survivor side calling to make the game easier for them.
The only thing that I can point to to back up my claim that killer is not easy is my own experience. Good survivors have no problem getting 2, 3 or even 4 escapes against me. You on the other hand are basing your claims on no experience as a killer player. If I'm wrong, I'd love to see some video of your gameplay so I can see what I'm doing wrong to be such a terrible killer player. I put out the same challenge to everyone else on this forum making similar claims that killer is "EZ mode".
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Although, if it's not hard to achieve, I'd be interested in hearing about a simple and easy way to fix the game's balance.
There is always the possibility of reverting the game back to a more fun state and taking things from there. Start over, you know.
The only problem is figuring out the "when". It would be very difficult, or even impossible, to find a version of DBD that is agreed to be the most fun the game has ever been.
In the past, the community here, and only here, had somewhat of a loose agreement that 2019 - early 2020 DBD was the best, but I am not sure if that is still true.
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Do Devs play Survivor themselves? Do they know how difficult it is to play survivor? With all the map changes and tile changes. Some maps are full of filler pallets. With all the perks nerfed to ground? This needs to be addressed asap! Or survivors will leave. I keep track of my own statistics and I could not escape once in the last 10 games playing in my SWF. And yes, please reply to my post that that's a skill issue lol. If the upcoming event is again killer sided then good bye DBD
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Good - that would make my survivor queue times much shorter in the evenings when I prefer to play survivor. To everyone else complaining about how awful it is, I'd be happy to take your spot in the evening survivor queue line!
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please look up the definition of the word hypocrite. You say that there’s plenty of evidence that killer is easy and then contradict yourself by saying it doesn’t need to be proven. Yes, it does actually. You make a claim, back it up. You can’t, so instead, you make baseless statements of why you “won’t”. It’s not that you won’t. It’s that you can’t.
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The difference is that there is plenty of evidence that killer is baby mode easy, almost every killer that streams wins on a very consistent basis with the try hards practically undefeated, notably the Blight mains that can't lose, in a game with MMR. My claim is proven. You simply are ignoring it because you don't want to accept it. Claiming survivor is easy or too strong is nothing more than a fabrication of lies. If it was so easy, where are the survivors that are undefeated? We have a game designed where survivor skill has no impact on the outcome if the killer knows how to play. The best course of action is to accept the game is flawed and push for BHVR to balance the game so it is fair.
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This message was not directed at me, but I would like to ask about some of your points. To be clear I am not trying to come across as argumentative or disrespectful, I am simply trying to understand. We all have our biases, and I am not excluded from that, but I think it’s important to try be exposed to and attempt to understand other perspectives, so this is simply my attempt at it. If anything comes across as rude it’s not my intent.
You explain that killer is easy for the first hundred (or even thousand) hours and only becomes difficult after that. The question is, why is it considered okay for killer to be so easy for such a long time? In most games, the difficulty ramps up as you improve. Isn’t that the point of progression and challenge? If killer is easy for hundreds of hours and then gets more difficult once you’re facing experienced survivors, that seems like a natural progression that should be expected, otherwise the killer role would lack any kind of skill. It’s expected that things would become harder as you face better opponents. If it stayed easy forever, wouldn’t that suggest an issue with balance? So if it doesn’t stay easy forever but it does for hundred or thousand of hours, why doesn’t that attribute to balance? And when you pair it with tactics like Tunneling which is arguably easy to execute due to little risk and high reward, that can be done with any killer and can be done perkless, killers can climb that ladder even faster.So that being said on the flip side, that for survivors, the first hundred hours aren’t easy at all. SoloQ survivors in particular have a much harder time learning the game because of the team reliance, various killers with different counters, randomness in matchmaking etc. you know all that. So Comparing this to killer, which you admit is a breeze at lower hours, it doesn’t seem balanced when you’re suggesting killer only becomes challenging later. Shouldn’t the game have a learning curve on both sides rather than one being disproportionately easy for hundreds of hours?
The game should become more challenging as you progress, (like any game) and if killer only becomes difficult at higher MMR or after many thousand hours, then that sounds like how most games work. Survivrs however, seem to face difficulty from the start which suggests that balancing issues affect them more heavily in the games lifespan.It seems like those hundreds or thousandsof hours where it was easy should still be part of the overall experience of the role. So why is it that difficulty only seems to count once it gets harder? Shouldn’t the earlier, easier experience also be acknowledged when talking about killer as a whole, just as survivor experience as a whole is?
Thank you for your time, I hope my questions make sense, sorry if they’re worded weird.
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So what is your idea of fair? I'm really interested in it.
You say killer is baby mode easy but use outliers using one of the most broken killers with meta builds in pubs to prove your point. Also I hate to break it to you but mmr is an absolute joke in this game you never ever get teams that are equal in skill across the board ever. If mmr actually did work these "streaks" wouldn't exist. The only plus to playing killer over survivor is that you can depend on yourself, where as survivor you can loop the killer for 4 gens and be left on hook because your teammates are crap. Both sides have their respective skill ceilings and both sides have their easy mode depending on who wants to sweat the most and who the RNG favors.
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Both sides actually having equal chances of winning, skill matters for actually both sides?
Considering you dismissed claiming as an outlier, which is easily obtainable by anyone signifies you have no serious genuine interest in a fair game.
The reason MMR doesn't work because skill is not important. Survivors don't raise MMR. There is other discussions above mine that mentions it better than me. Survivor is extremely hard while killer is baby mode easy. It's wrong.
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Wow. Hundreds of hours.
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Can you actually list how its "baby mode easy" instead of saying so? Can you list actual facts in-game? Not what this or that streamer did. What you have done yourself or what you think makes killer easy.
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Well i would agree because when i play killer it is quite easy. When I play (solo que) survivor it is very hard. The statistics also prove it. 60% to 40%. No need for logical argument when simple arithmetic easily proves it.
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his idea fair would be 100% escape 100% of the time. That’s literally what this comes down to this idea of talking about skill is a joke. These people have ego and they think that they are the best video game player of all time and if they aren’t “winning” all of time, The game needs to be changed to be more “fair”. When in reality, it’s the complete opposite they want the game to be changed to not be fair, but to be tilted in their favor, so that they can feel like the video game god that they believe that they are in their own heart.
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See your not pointing to anything. That 60/40? Maybe its because killers are working hard to murder everyone. Maybe survivors keep screwing themselves over and bloating it. Maybe it is easy, maybe not. What we do know is from personal experience is that killer has only been stupid easy once in the years we've been here and that time has passed. Right now its not as hard as before but saying killer is easy seems ridiculous unless your against people who are way below you or they sabotage themselves.
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Killer.mains think it is not easy because every once in awhile they dont get a 3 or 4k.
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…and thats why you think killer is easy?…
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I think it is easy compared to (at least solo que) survivor because I have played.both quite a bit and it is just easy in comparison. Not to mention that statistics show it.
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And again: play killer for a while straight and win every game and then come back telling us how easy swfs with over 20k or more hours are on badham, eyrie, garden of joy or even coaltower. I'd be interested to see what you say then xD
With a relatively little amount of hours and therefore probably mmr, killers are always at the advantage even before the buffs. At mid-high mmr it gets more balaced and depending on how much the survivors hate you and what killer you play, your life will be suffering xD
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Then you can obviously answer the question: How so?
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Because the game used to be survivor sided and in trying to fix it Bhvr went too far the other way? I mean i dont know what kind of answer you want.
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Details preferably.
For example: What did they lose, what do they have now, and what do killers have before and now that make it so easy compared to what survivors have currently.
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