The last of us chapter in dead by daylight
I have always wanted the last of us to be a chapter in dead by daylight it will be my dream come true because having Ellie as a survivor would really be interesting to have because she is a tough girl. And also having a clicker or bloater as a killer would really be terrifying. Just imagine the clicker or bloater having the ability to can't see survivors they can make him like spirit but having a really strong hearing ability that can be harder for survivors to keep quiet.
Answers
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I doubt Sony would ever allow it, unfortunately.
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Would be cool i guess :) I still have to play The last of us 2. The first game was so good :)
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Do yourself a favour and don't do it… pretend the sequel doesn't exist. You'll be much happier. If you want a reason, a short version of explaining the problem is "mean spirited", same kind of issues as Alien 3.
… and that's the unfortunate part of the request of the OP… canonically Ellie appearing in DBD would have to be the adult version of Ellie… which means it has to acknowledge TLOUp2's existence.
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i do not think it is out of question. it may very well happen. the trend is that they tend to have celebrity survivor that is solo survivor every year. they had nick cage, we got lara croft which is weird is but ok. Elodie could easily be stand-alone survivor and she fits way more than lara croft.
at same time, i can't really think of any perks she would have. just think of last of us 1, maybe a healing perk, a perk that allow you to craft something since last of us 1 was crafting focused and maybe something related to a perk that saves other people because she is mostly saving/helping Joel Miller in the story. an perk where when you unhook someone or pick someone off the ground, they have 50% healing progression.
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No, I'm saying Sony is the problem. They wouldn't let it happen, ever. Sony is known to be very picky about this kind of stuff. Nick Cage and Lara don't have anything to do with Sony, but TLOU was originally a Ps exclusive.
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I found Part 2 even better than the first, despite it being far more depressing.
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judging from interview. i wouldn't be surprised if BVHR had some connections. I do not think it is out of the question. it is hard license to get but consider like RE which is video game horror and Lara… which isn't Horror but it is gaming, Last of us 1 is gaming horror. it is right into BVHR's interest to get said license considering the current license's.
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Glad you enjoyed it, I couldnt stand it, but I won't try and convince you to dislike something you enjoy. So do please ignore the spoiler if you don't want to open up that debate 😅
What I will say is the game is extremely polarising though... so by that definition, it is not a game I would recommend.
Gameplaywise I'd agree it's better, much more polish, and in a lot of ways it can be commended for being bold enough to tell such a story (and the story is what really sells TLOU).
... However storywise it reframes/undermines a lot of what makes part 1 so good and memorable at several points, heavy handedly tries to tell you/manipulate you in to what to think, and has characters selectively ignore key character traits, bend and snap to the whims of where the story wants to go, and randomly lose 40 IQ points in order for the contrived plot to happen...
A lot of those flaws would be managable/passable for a lot of players, especially with the gameplay improvements... if they didn't come at the expense of some very serious world shattering plot points, that should have provoked a need to ensure airtight writing given the heavy losses they inflict upon the player. Having such major events that are impossible to recover from so lazily implemented, it makes them feel cheap and unearned. Depending on how much you were invested in the original story and how much you notice, it can easily put an immovable bitter taste in your mouth that only gets worse the more the game does it...
Ultimately TLOUp2 invites us to see the characters get into a train wreck. It rips down a lot of what had many players invested from the first game, and all of it just to tell us "an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind"... which is all extremely obvious from the get go, and we get to watch everyone we care about go down that stupid obvious road and lose everything for no good reason.
Like Alien 3 it is just a depressing story that ends up exactly where you would expect it, taking away the meaning and introspection we drew from the originals for literally no gain... and you're left asking "what the hell was the point of playing any of this?"
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I've heard people say Joel mentioning his name doesn't fit his character, but Abby saved Tommy and Joel from the horde, and Tommy was the one that told his name first, Joel then went along with it. I think the problem was that a lot of people saw Joel as some kind of a good man but in reality he was the complete opposite. And when it comes to Ellie, the way I see it ever since Joel's death happened she thought she was mad at Abby and years later still thought she needed to kill her to let go. But when she could have had her she realized she was actually mad at herself for not trying with Joel sooner. And at the end at the farm she thinks about their last talk and how she forgives him. She can finally move on, I'm assuming she goes back to Dina to not make the same mistake as she did with Joel.
I've played through both games many times, and Part 2 hits harder every time, I think both are some of the best I've played.
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It's complex, but I agree with your assessment that Joel is not a good man. The whole point of TLOUp1 is that Joel has become a very cold and detached person who has basically lost his humanity as a result of his daughter dying. He is introduced to us as someone willing to break the legs of/kill the person that owes him something.
The whole point of the story is that upon meeting Ellie and the resulting story that follows, she brings him back to his humanity, and reignites the loving caring part of the man he was. Him saving Ellie at the end of TLOUp1 was a mirror of the detached survivalist he was when he started the game.
Ellie is unconscious and going to be killed without her consent for a potential cure that may not even work, and all to save the villainous, murderous and evil people left of the world who prey on the weak. Instead of being willing to leave her to die to stay alive himself when given the option, he made good on the promise he would never abandon her again and risked his life to save hers, no matter the cost.
The climax of the game has Ellie ask him what happened, and he lies to her to spare her the weight and implications of the truth. We see from Ellies reaction that she doesn't really buy what he tells her, but accepts the lie knowing he cares about her and trusts him.
It leaves the morality up to the player to decide. Is a potential cure for what is left of the world worth Ellie dying? Or is Joel's responsibility to Ellie, and the terms given to Joel by the Fireflies unacceptable... I think this is the devide where you either love or hate TLOUp2. I'm in the latter camp.
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Fast forward to TLOUp2 and now Ellie is wracked with survivors guilt and mad at Joel for having cost her the chance to save the world to die for a purpose. His actions in Ellie's eyes weren't Joel saving her from being murdered for potentially no reason, and instead a selfish act for his own gratification... and this would be a fine plot point, Ellie doesnt really hate Joel, but struggling with ten burden of the truth... but Joel for some reason is shown to just accept that he was in the wrong and acts meek and spineless the whole time. If during the scene where they talked in the flashback he said something like "... if I could do the whole situation over again... I wouldn't change anything". Without something like that, it feels very much like the game disrespects him and his choive in the first game constantly.
Throughout the whole opening of the game, Joel just isn't Joel. The guy he should be is the cantacerous guy who is constantly getting in peoples face and banging on about being vigilant, sticking to rules and protocol and not trusting outsiders. He's the person here who has survived out in the cut throat world with no attachments, he knows the dangers out there better than anyone here.
Yet the whole series of events leading up to his death is just bad decision after bad decision on his part. When he's caught by Abby's crew he should have been on high alert WELL before the ######### hits the fan, and he should have absolutely not made the the mistake of giving out his name... him dying is a fine plot point... but Joel has had to become really stupid and not be Joel to get here, and complacency because he's lived in peace for 5 years is not an excuse. As I say, he's the guy that should be the crackpot harping on at everyone else and not being taken seriously by Tommy's naive community who doesn't know better.
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This is already long so I won't get started on Abby, but the hypocrisy of her character is insane. Her father gets murdered, she goes and hunts him down, and then is surprised Ellie hunts her down... she even spares her life knowing that it doesn't matter she's still gonna come after anyway. At no point does Abby acknowledge she may have been wrong to kill Joel, she instead lambasts Ellie for the death she's brought with her revenge mission... despite the fact her father was killed so Joel could save this very person in front of her... which she knows! It's just so hypocritical it's laughable. If Abby ever reflected on and regretted Joel's death, having to face up to Ellie for what she'd done, and present this idea that maybe Joel wasn't in the wrong for his actions in the first game, that'd make it all an easier pill to swallow and a solid pay off... But no, Joel in her mind at the end still deserved what he got. This should have been the payoff for Abby, and it never happened.
Basically the game massively disrespects Joel, both by making him behave like an idiot, and blaming him completely for the events of this game, and never having his killer answer for it.
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Finally there is Ellie who loses everything in her mission for revenge. She gets everyone but Dina killed, and I'm sorry to tell you... no she doesn't get to be with Dina, Dina expressly said "if you go, I wont be here when you come back". So Dina is gone as well.
She sacrificed everything and everyone in her life for her chance to kill Abby, and she didn't even take that, which again is made sour by Abby not having her revelation/payoff regarding Joel herself. Ellie just loses everything for no reason... even her fingers so she can't even play Joel's guitar.
The thing is we knew way back at the start it was a bad idea to go on this revenge mission. It's why Abby is irredeemable, cause she was willing to risk her crews lives for a revenge mission that doesn't really make sense. If she didn't know WHY Joel killed her father, that would make more sense... but she does know exactly why... so her revenge doesn't paint her as a person worth following. She's a villain, no matter how much humanity and tragedy you try and staple on her Naughty Dog.... and we get to Ellie doing exactly the same thing as the villain... and the whole time we're sat like "what's the point? You're just gonna either die or lose everything in the process", which is exactly what happens.
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The story could have been something like Tommy goes for revenge, and Ellie goes to bring him back home alive, but the rest of the story plays out pretty much same, and ends at the farmhouse. That would have been a much better treatment of Ellie's character. If you fix the issues with Joel being a putz as well, then you've got yourself a great script... but with what was given... it's just mean spirited and destroys TLOUp1s legacy.
Sorry it's long... nerd rage is hard to contain xD
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Just one thing I wanted to say, everyone that hates TLOU 2 feels the same way about the cure it seems. The point of Part 1s ending and what Joel did, was that there was a possibility for the entire humanity to restored with the cure. Saying "it wouldn't have worked" etc. is speculation. No matter how slight the chance, Joel stopped it. But there was a chance that it could have happened. Thanks to Joel, the world will never know. And also seems like everyone that dislike the game also try to make Abby seem worse than she is.
Joel is way worse than all the others combined, let alone Abby. But it was easy to understand why he did it.
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That exactly what I mean by it depends how you view Joel's actions in part one.
You have taken the opinion that Joel should have let Ellie die, because of the potential cure for humanity. I would agree with that statement… if Ellie was given the choice and chose to sacrifice herself, however she did not… the Fireflys took her away unconscious to kill her, held a gun to Joel and said "Leave".
To me and a lot of people, especially parents, this is unacceptable situation. Take a look at someone like Captain America, if given the choice to let a innocent person die to prevent the threat of nuclear war from killing hundreds of thousands of people, he would take the stance that is an unacceptable trade, we do not compromise on a persons life, and would fight and die to save that innocent. This is the same situation, and it is what brings out the best of humanity. Pragmatically, you are correct, killing Ellie for the chance of a cure is the sensible choice… but it is decidedly inhuman.
So when you say Joel is worse, I vehemently disagree… he is no worse than the fireflys or the rest of humanity. Killing an innocent girl in her sleep for just the chance at saving yourselves because you deem everyone else's lives more important than hers, is evil. This is the crux of why TLOUp2 is controversial. Joel was given an impossible choice that didn't have a right answer in part 1, he was a loving man who made the choice to save the life of the girl that brought light and meaning back into his life again… and in the same position, I would have done the same thing.
Part 1 lets you and me both have our perspectives. Part 2 tells us that Joel is the evil one and deserved to die for saving Ellie… and everything it did after that just cemented that perspective and ruined the meaning and introspection of the original.
That is why people like me hate it. It basically tells us that caring about the people you love and not striving to be better than the cold logic from a machine mind and a machine heart is the right answer, and you're not gonna be able to tell anyone who hates TLOUp2 to accept that message.
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The reason why I think they did that, is probably because of how important a cure would be. Marlene even says "Because this is not about me. Or even her." I'd imagine at that point they didn't want to take any risks, and thought about how the life of 1 could potentially save… You know, a lot of people. One of the key points in the plot of part 1 is about how Ellie is the exception the Fireflies never had. And make no mistake, Ellie would have wanted it as she confirms it in Part 2. And I'm not trying to change your mind.
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Sure, that's a fair point, and we know that Ellie would have given her life from hindsight… but you can't use knowledge from the future, to condemn Joel in part 1. We have to assess the scenario from Joel's perspective at the point he made the decision… and as I said before, Ellie is suffering from survivors guilt in TLOUp2. She doesn't want to die, and saying she'd be happy to give her life when she no longer has to and is suffering with survivor's guilt is quite easy, but it's a different matter when you actually have to do it… and she was 12.
Ellie did not know that she was going to die for the cure, and she was never given a choice. We know that Marlene cared about Ellie really, but if you were Joel, could you know for sure that was true? Especially when she's willing to cut out her brain on the operating table for a cure that realistically has a low chance of working? The fact Ellie would have done it is immaterial when assessing Joel's actions, and that's the fundamental problem of TLOUp2. It's dictating to us what we should think, not in the way that its telling this story, but in the way that Joel himself doesn't even stand by his own actions, and every single character pulls the same conclusion. It paints him as a villain that he simply is not.
As I say, if Abby had her pay off where she acknowledged that Joel wasn't deserving of her revenge, and she was wrong to kill him, that would have worked as a story, and kept the message of the first game intact… but it didn't, it shaped everything to us that Joel was selfish and completely in the wrong for his actions… then it spent the rest of the game trying to tell us Abby isn't so bad, and then having Ellie trying to kill her and ruin her own life in the process.
Its like what do you want me to feel TLOUp2? Cause what I actually feel is any of my investment in the characters and story from p1 was completely wasted. It was bold… but pointless.
Cheers for the engaging discussion btw…. obviously I'm a little upset and passionate talking about TLOPUp2, but nothing but respect for yourself mate ^^
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But Joel did stand by his own actions. In the final scene of Joel and Ellie talking for the last time. I'm sure you've heard the sentence "If somehow the Lord gave me a second chance at that moment, I would do it all over again.". And Joel IS the villain in the eyes of the rest of the world for what he did. Although the TLOU universe doesn't really have heroes or villains. But Joel is a huge piece of **** for what he did. He prevented the possibility of a cure because of his personal pain and trauma, which he wasn't going experience again. In the best case scenario society could have been restored.
Part 2 is about Ellie and his journey to getting over Joel's death. Part 1 already shows what Joel did, and it ends with Joel lying in an attempt to win Ellie over to his side. And not that it matters but Ellie was 14, I know that could be a typo but still.0 -
It's been years since I went through it, obviously I haven't gone through it since. So my memories of it are hazy.
Anyway, the point you've made there is the common thread with every discussion I've ever had on TLOUp2. Basically whether you like or dislike TLOUp2 is entirely dependent on 1 question.
Do you think Joel was justified in saving Ellie or not?
If you don't, you consider Joel a piece of ######### for killing the scientist and preventing the cure. As such TLOUp2 caters to that point of view, and we get the events of the game play out. The common trend with this perspective is people tend to be very cynical about Joel's actions. The lie to Ellie for example isn't to win her over to his side, it's to spare her the pain of the reality that they were going murder her and he was forced to kill them all.
If you do, you consider Joel a redeemed man who saved the girl he swore to always be there for from being murdered, at the expense of a potential cure. You don't see his actions as selfish or evil because we know the uncaring husk of a man Joel was before would have left Ellie to die...
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The problem is the story catering to the perspective of the former would be fine... if it was executed well. The world perceiving Joel as the villain is fine, as is him being killed (though the events that led to it needed to handled much better)... but the point is we have a depressing story that kills off our protagonist in a pretty pathetic way... then rips everything away from Ellie who never resolved her survivors guilt with Joel due to that pathetic death... and I suppose the question I have for you is why?
Why does any of this story need to be told? What value does it add? What morales or interesting points and introspection does it offer the player?
Cause from where I'm sitting it's just a miserable story with a miserable end and nothing interesting to say... we just killed off a fan favourite character and shat on the life of the other fan favourite character just to tell you revenge is bad... and it's like well gee thanks...
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Like I could rewrite a few plot elements and it then kinda works.
1) Abby doesn't luckily wander into Joel and him being a complete idiot to give himself up. Instead she manages to capture Ellie and Dina who because of there awkward brewing relationship are lapsadasical about their safety, use that as the bait to get Joel out of Jackson.
2) Instead of Ellie going after Abby for revenge, have Tommy go for revenge instead. Have Ellie go after him to bring him home alive since he's her only tie to Joel left. Have all the other major events play out the same.
3) Have the final battle with Abby and Ellie, Tommy is shot in the head and wounded the same way, and have Ellie ultimately win the fight vs. Abby.
4) With Abby at gun point have Abby and Ellie talk about Joel and him saving Ellie's life. Have Ellie ask Abby about that day, talk about how Abby had to talk her father into doing it and how Marlene threatened Joel to leave. Have Ellie face the fact that Joel gave up on the cure so that she could live, the circumstances that led to him doing it. End it with Ellie leaving Abby alive, a mutual understanding between each other of why things played out the way they did, and Ellie leaving all the blood of Abby's dead comrades at the hands of Tommy and Ellie as part of their war on Abbys head.
5) End at the farmhouse with Ellie and Dina, with Tommy now wheelchair bound but all living their life together.
Wouldn't all of this be a far less miserable plot that gets the same message across, where Joel's death actually helps Ellie grow as a person, where she took the higher path without it being the catalyst for her to lose everything in her life? It shows the same desperate people do desperate things, and Ellie can have the scene where she tortures Abbys dying friend, but this time its to save Tommy rather than be this stupid quest for revenge?
This would be a much more uplifting story with the same message that doesn't require Ellie to make a ridiculous set of bad decisions. I mean as an example... why TF does she get Abby out of being a slave? Why not just leave her to her fate... why are you risking your life here? It's just dumb... and this new version bypasses this whole set of stupid scenes.
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