Anti camp working perfectly

The difference is that the survivor complaints are about play styles where people engage in the minimum possible number of gameplay mechanics and the killer complaints are that survivors are not choosing to completely ignore their win con, hope this helps.

I would rather devs scrap current AFC and just transport hooks when a killer lingers within X range for X seconds. At least then if a killer insists on camping it’s much more difficult to pull off, as they’ll need to travel across a map (even if it’s a small map) to do so.

@Huge_Bush Don't worry, people have OBVIOUSLY forgotten that facecamping was a thing that is now basically erradicated. So because most don't seem to remember its perceived to be an inadequate countermessure to perceived disproportionate effective strategies.

I personally think that the bar could fill up a little bit more, BUT be visible to everyone, the hooked survivor, their friends and also the killer. Being transparent with how it works will allow to fine tune it a bit better, right now there are so many misconceptions, false claims and wrong observations about it that I feel going fully transparent for everyone involved would be the best course of action.

The design is good for what the mechanic does, stops face camping. Now if you think it should be improved or built upon, I won’t argue with you. But saying it’s useless and doesn’t achieve anything is wrong. It does what it’s designed to do.

The problem here is people have moved the goal posts from face camping to just camping and act like the Devs don’t do anything to improve their experience, forgetting how BT became base-kit (which people still don’t appreciate and claim is useless) and how Hook Grabs have been eliminated.

And yes, plenty want immunity and for rescues to be completely safe. If they don’t, they wouldn’t expect to be able to go toe to toe with a camping Killer and succeed (you already have someone in this thread implying this should be the case) and they wouldn’t be asking for teleporting hooks.

Face camping is when the Killer is camping the Survivor face to face, regardless of the hook swivel. The removal of hook grabs and base-kit BT are proof that Face Camping was a problem. The AFC mechanic was just the cherry on top. There were plenty of complaints about face camping as well.

Even after the removal of the hook swivel mechanic, Killers with insta-down abilities like Bubba, Hillbilly and Myers were able to make it impossible to unhook. Heck, even a good Doctor who knew how to time their M2 could stop an unhook while face camping. Now Survivors have more of a chance to save without going down immediately.

You are failing to see the gray area in a bad mechanic. Just because on paper it says "Good for face camping" it doesn't mean it stops it. The loop hole that exists is proof that is is NOT a greatly designed mechanic. So yes it is useless when it's not serving as any other purpose other than to say it's there.

I guarantee you there there are more people who have found this useless more than not. Camping as a concept has been one of the the core issues with this game since the start, this is not a good step in the right direction. Face-camping isn't the only aspect of Camping as a whole that was already an issue.

"You said, that killers in general are opposed to the idea of survivors playing at all. How is that not the most one-sided and unreflected take one can have? That was 100% Us vs. Them, let's not fool ourselves here. It's not the aesthetic but the very definition of Us vs. Them.

The reason why I assumed that they meant gen rush is because "gens popping fast" is used synomously for gen rush. So the worst you can accuse me of is assuming, that @drsoontm and me are on the same page when it comes to what gen rush means. That is in no way anywhere near anything that could be considered a one-sided take.

I care about everyone's fun, that's why I encourage people to play in a way that everyone gets to experience the widest range of gameplay mechanics available. When survivors consistently win chase, killers still get the chance to play hide-and-seek, to play tag, to kick gens; the only thing they don't get to experience is hooking survivors, which I'm told by other members of this forum is something killers don't like doing anyway.

Moreover, I personally wouldn't find survivors giving me free hooks to be at all fun. I will keep it in mind that you personally think it's reasonable for killers to expect that from survivors, though

Not necessarily.

There is a reason this game is built around multiple chances. It is fun to get back into the game (and to help others get back into the game). When games last longer and have multiple opportunities to play, they are more fun. This is why many competitive multiplayer games moved toward respawn formats (such as point based TDM, capture the point/flag, reboot/revive) or have multiple elimination rounds in quick succession, so that even if you are eliminated you don't wait long to come back.

Sure, some people complaining just want to win and nothing else, but you can't hand-wave away a lot of valid complaints about loss of agency. If I get chased by a nurse like this one here who decides to camp like this, I get one chase, maybe 1 minute or less if they are really good, then I spend 140 seconds on the hook, then back to lobby, etc. I have very few chances to interact with my teammates and the killer. If I go against a nurse who doesn't play like this, I might get another one or two chases in before dying, which is just objectively more fun. Not to mention, all 3 of OP's teammates are encouraged by the game to sit on generators and NOT go for killer interaction or altruism, which is also boring.

Even if survivors 3 man escape against a proxy camping killer by playing optimally, you can't tell me that their complaints of the game being boring are just them just wanting 4 man outs every game. Doing gens all game and avoiding a camping killer with zero interaction is not that fun.

By the way, this brings me to the point of what the actual problem is and why solo queue is so painful for so many players. You can’t force anybody to be a team player. That’s the reality of it. There is no game mechanic that you can create that’s going to make someone be a team player if they don’t want to be. The answer is not to buff individual survivors though, because that creates an unstable situation in a game where you have four versus one whether or not the four are working as a cohesive unit is irrelevant. It is still one player against four.

This was an issue in Friday, the 13th, Texas chainsaw, and every other asymmetrical horror, survival game. The only way for anyone who is complaining to fix this is to do what I’ve done in Friday the 13th and what I’ve semi-done in dead by daylight. Find randoms that are good and you’ve had good games with and add them as friends. Try to get players that you know you can depend on and this won’t be so much of an issue.

I did not define fun by bloodpoints. I defined fun by "getting a chance to engage in as wide a range of the available gameplay mechanics as possible." I did not mention bloodpoints at any point in this thread until just now. I find it very disrespectful towards me that you have claimed arguments that I did not make.

It's more appropriate to say that tunnelling and camping increase the Killer's chance disproportionately in comparison to the effort put in and have a much lower skill floor than what is needed to counter tunnelling. That's what your calling it a winning strategy is admitting as there is no need to tunnel and camp in public matches unless your skill as a Killer is subpar in comparison to the survivors you're against and you need to tunnel and camp or a 60% win percentage is just not enough for you (which would be a you problem in that case). It's not difficult to get win streaks and a good win percentage without tunnelling and camping in public matches as long as you avoid tunnelling and camping to begin with.

Tunnelling and camping wasn't as much as a pressing issue in the past as the Survivor role had a lot of busted stuff to even it out as well. However, Survivor doesn't have any busted stuff now while Killer still has access to low skill floor strategies that require a much higher level of skill and coordination to counter than implement. Tunnelling throws the odds to win in one side's favour even more than the old 'press E to outplay' pre 6.1 DH and should, in my opinion, be treated with even more derision. It's a relic that should be thrown on the garbage heap along with infinite loops and pre 6.1 DH.

It's more accurate to say that tunnelling and camping is needed in public matches if the Killer is mediocre in comparison to the Survivors.

But your argument is false. Here are links to some old games where I won virtually all of them without camping and tunnelling with Killers I had been playing a match a day with for months. (I recorded them to observe my games after the fact but never got around to deleting them).

Nothing has changed except Killer is now easier. So, if for over two years, I can win the majority of my games without tunnelling and camping in public matches but you can't would it not be more accurate to say you probably have a skill issue or are misplaced in MMR and are compensating for it by crutching on tunnelling and camping?

You can't have it both ways where you say that the problem is 'bad teammates or survivor skill' and then also say 'tunnelling and camping is needed in public matches'. The players aren't Schrodinger's Survivors where they're simultaneously bad and that's why tunnelling works but also good enough that tunnelling and camping is needed to win.

It's certainly better evidence than what you've provided which is essentially just "Because I said so" even when presented with video evidence to the contrary. The kill rates were lower in January 2023 than they are now. Are you implying that even though kill rates have gone up it's somehow harder for Killers now than when kill rates were lower?

I have no issues with recording a series of games now to prove my point but it'll take a few weeks to get 100 games so a proper sample size can be reached.

Typically ad hominem attacks such as this are used by one side when their arguments have been so thoroughly debunked that there is nothing left. If you feel it's so necessary than why is it possible to get a higher than 60% win rate in public matches without tunnelling and camping?

It's not an ad hominem attack to say you don't really have a full understanding, or are too new to understand. Which is what I'm saying. Trying to frame it as an attack isn't going to work with me. You'll have to do better than that, friend.

And I haven't said it isn't POSSIBLE. But survivors aren't going out of their way and put themselves at a disadvantage to stop themselves from doing things that annoy/bore killers. There's no reason to do anything but match that energy. Period. End of story.

I never said it wasn't. If you need to manufacture things I never said, I've proven my point.

-mic drop-

You literally said 'tunnelling and camping is a winning strategy and spreading hooks isn't '. I included your post from less than two hours ago where you stated that.

That's not not an issue with Anti-face camp, it's an issue with Nurse not being suited to DbD, and BHVR refusing to do anything about it.