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New Anti-Slugging Mechanic
[NEW] - When a survivor reaches at least 95% recovery while in the dying state, Fight or Die begins
[NEW] - Fight or Die:
- After 60 seconds of a survivor being at 95% recovery, the survivor is given 2 options
- They can recover themselves from the Dying State to the Injured State, but become Broken for 30 seconds
- They can choose to sacrifice themselves to the entity, killing themselves instantly
[UPDATED] - Plot Twist
- Entering the Dying State through Plot Twist does not trigger Fight or Die
To reach 95% recovery takes 30.4 seconds, the additional 60 from Fight or Die means that the survivor should have been on the ground for at least 90 seconds. Spending 90 seconds on the ground is, what I think we can all agree on, Slugging. Players have been asking for more ways to combat Slugging as it can feel incredibly un-interactive and in a lot of scenarios it can lead to games being held hostage.
Fight or Die is my idea for a mechanic in the game that could bring that counterplay to Slugging. The survivor will be given the choice to either pick themselves up and keep playing or get to leave the match early (a request that seems to be more and more common).
Survivors can only spend a maximum of 240 second in the dying state, as it takes 90 seconds at least for a survivor to pick themselves up, they can at most pick themselves up twice. This stops the situation where a killer is punished for Slugging to gain pressure, rather than slugging to bleed out or to force the 4K.
Even when taking Knock Out into account, Fight or Die can take a minimum of 100 seconds to trigger, which still allows survivors to potentially recover twice.
Comments
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This is probably more balanced than most other proposals I've seen.
I do wonder a little if it would change the slug for 4k meta to even more heavily promote proxy camping the downed survivor.
A killer might see the opportunity to keep their eyes on the slug while being far enough away to tempt a pickup. But if that was the most common play, the remaining survivor could probably do a gen while the slug gets ready to self-pick up. That should incentivise the killer to go hunting. Anyway, just wanted to ponder out loud a bit. It sounds like a solid idea!
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When it comes to Slugging, killers usually try to bank on Survivor's being altruistic and proxy camp the survivor anyway. This change is to stop the extreme end of slugging where the killer just keeps downing survivors and never hooking or progressing the game.
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I think spending 90 seconds on the ground is too much, and in large terms unhelpful and insufferable to the player.
I'm sure bHVR can detect the average time spent slugged, its all instances where the downed survivor isnt picked up within 3 seconds, in all those games figure out how long they actually there on average before picked up by a team-mate. This number + 10 should be the range at which an anti-slugging mechanic should kick in, at least in the early game, meaning this system could get worse with each hooking. That is rather the system I want for Survivors than this one.
90 seconds is absurd.
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That's 90 seconds where you have no intervention from perks or other survivors. Yes it will feel like ass to be out of play for 90 seconds, but that is better than the current alternative of sitting and waiting.
What you have suggested is a mechanic that effectively could render early game slugging next to unimpactful. Yes the mechanic would get weaker with hooks, but if as the killer you need to slug to get some pressure back, you wouldn't have the time to make it useful.
From my understanding from your description, if the average time for a survivor to be picked up by another survivor was 26 seconds, +10 for the mechanic, that means that early game the killer would have only 36 seconds to do something with that down before the survivor gets up. With this mechanic in play, survivors wouldn't have to worry about actually picking up the downed survivor, only making the killer believe that they are trying to and then <40 seconds later, their pressure is gone.
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What you have suggested is a mechanic that effectively could render early game slugging next to unimpactful.
I do believe you have figured out what the intention is. I am also against ending the game easily at 5gen, I think that sucks.
From my understanding from your description, if the average time for a survivor to be picked up by another survivor was 26 seconds, +10 for the mechanic, that means that early game the killer would have only 36 seconds to do something with that down before the survivor gets up. With this mechanic in play, survivors wouldn't have to worry about actually picking up the downed survivor, only making the killer believe that they are trying to and then <40 seconds later, their pressure is gone.
I am a Killer who can make a play in 30 to 40 seconds, if you take longer then you need to not do those long slugging attempts in the early game, get some hooks and then do it. I think Killers can adjust to this easily. Take on avarage Killers who perform a slugging action, how many of them slug for longer than 30 to 40 seconds? its gonna be a tiny amount.
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Just because you can make a play within such a short amount of time and then go hook the survivor you downed, doesn't mean you slugged in the same manner as the type of slugging my suggested mechanic is supposed to counteract.
I agree with you, yes killers could adjust to the idea of they have 40 seconds to hook a survivor, but that then puts more unneeded pressure on the killer side. Sometimes they will need longer than 40 seconds. To hold the average survivor and killer player to you own level of experience and say "what's best for me is best for everyone else" is a bad approach to fixing the issue. As such, yes YOU can down a survivor and then go apply pressure elsewhere and hook them all within 40 seconds is a fine and subjective experience, but saying that this should be and is the experience of the average killer and should be balanced around is unfair.
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I know it can feel unfair to hear that sometimes the experience has to be based around the averages, but the truth is, it serves the majority of players. Balancing for the average ensures that most players get an experience that feels accessible and enjoyable, even if it doesn’t perfectly match everyone’s skill level. Slugging is LITTERALY on the top most unpleasant experience for Survivors so we do well in taking their complaints seriously and if you are slugging longer in early game, just wheel it in, its just not fun anymore.
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I fully agree with you that Slugging needs to be addressed, it is boring and removes survivor engagement. However, my above statement was that you yourself, cannot say that you are the average killer. Balancing around the average is a good way to go about it, but balancing around what you believe to be the average isn't.
Being able to down a survivor and then apply adequate pressure within 40~ seconds may be average/easy for you, but to the average killer it could be outside of their skill bracket. Yes 90 seconds can feel like a lot, and it is, but that is enough time for Survivors to do a gen, or have a chase or do whatever they need to, while also giving the killer plenty of time to make use of the slug by applying pressure and then returning to hook them or baiting survivors to go in for the heal. What this does do, is it makes it so that the killer still has a viable strategy for getting pressure (however unfun it is for survivors) while also removing the ability to just drop and forget them.
By having the duration be too short, you inadvertently punish killers that play well and win early for whatever reason. If you have it be too long, you ruin the survivor experience. 90 seconds is a rough estimate at this time, it could always be tweaked to be shorter.
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You dont need to point out to me what the effects of the changes I want, Im well aware of them and still want to give it a try.
I never said it should be balanced around my personal skill, I distinctly defined the average, you are just focusing on one part of my response, while ignoring the definition. It clogs up your response to with things I already know instead of making a better argument for your system than saying "its estimated" instead of coming clear how its estimated.
Post edited by Emeal on0 -
So, say that the survivor has Boil Over in an area where the Hook spawns are too far away when considering a drop. Or there’s a map oversight where Hook spawns cause the Survivor to be in a position where the Killer cannot feasibly reach a Hook in time.
In such scenarios, your proposed system allows a “free pickup”, as through no fault of their own, the Killer will be unable to transport the survivor to the Hook.
Are there any safeguards against these scenarios your solution brings?
Or should these scenarios be hand-waived/These maps be disabled until a fix is implemented?
Would such a pickup be considered a “feee-pickup”, if the Killer is guarding the slug, the survivors are not progressing the gens, instead threatening hook sabos and the like?
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You're right, I apologise for that. I was too fixated on a single point. A mid point between my mechanic and yours, would be as you suggested, one where survivors could only be on the floor for say 40 seconds with less hooks, but more hooks extend this duration, or even generator progression could affect this value too.
You made a good point and I was focussing on trying to one up instead of consider your suggestion.
Slugging does need to be addressed, especially early game.
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All my solution brings is a safeguard against pure, 4k bleed out slugging. No it doesn't have any safeguards against purposeful time wasting using boil-over, however these issues are map and perk issues, more than a slugging issue, as slugging in this scenario is more of a way to counteract it/punish it. The maps and hook spawns should be looked at 100%.
If the killer is guarding the slug drawing players away from gens, no it's not a free pickup as the survivor is likely to be knocked down as they get up. But all my suggestion does, is help against the killer just downing and leaving the survivor on the floor.
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