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Should deadline be buffed?

fixblitzskin
fixblitzskin Member Posts: 114
edited October 28 in Feedback and Suggestions

I been using deadline off and on since it came out and I can’t see any instance where you want to run it expect with autodidact. 10% seems to little especially how it only works when injured. I think it should be increased to 15 or 20% while injured. Another route that can be done it make it 10-15% flat out no matter healthstate. It would be like no mither how it just makes the game hard but pair it with other perks you got a solid build. What buff suggestions do y’all suggest.

Post edited by Rizzo on

Comments

  • Marc_go_solo
    Marc_go_solo Member Posts: 5,327

    I'd probably be similar to you. Mine would be:

    Skill Checks appear 10% more often when healthy. When injured, skill checks appear 10%/12%/15% more often, and Great Skill Checks add an extra 1 charge on top of what you'd normally receive for a Great Skill Check.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 3,361

    It would fit thematically with the perk that you would have a base effect while healthy, and an amplified effect while being injured.

    Something like the perk is always in effect, but you have 7.5% extra skillchecks while healthy, and 15% while injured. That would give a nice fringe benefit in that the perk can also be used as a "Doctor training perk", where you take it to boot camp yourself.

    The only concern of course being Stake Out and Hyper Focus... but considering you are making your skillchecks basically into Huntress Lullaby Doctor voluntarily, and each Stake Out stack makes it tougher for you, is that reasonable? Would probably need someone to do the maths... Beabud maybe 😁

  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 2,174

    My buff would be

    10% more often when healthy, 20% when injured
    When cooperating with other survivors, missed skill checks by them does not regress progress, instead they are transferred to you with 25% more speed

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,886

    Like others said, I would change it to a flat +10% chance which increases to +20% chance when injured.

    However, I'd also add a new effect: when uninjured, skillchecks are 10% slower, and when injured, skillchecks are 20% slower in addition to being randomly placed.

    But this might mess with muscle memory too much, so this might be a bad idea. I do agree Deadline needs a buff to do something more beneficial because currently it's a perk that doesn't really do much that's helpful.

    Maybe just have the additional skillcheck chance and reduced failure penalty as always on, with the random appearances only while injured, so it's a safety net while healthy and a risk while injured.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,832

    Deadline is a weird perk to talk about, because the actual main effect isn't small or inconsequential - +10 to the base skillcheck percentage results in an over doubled likelihood of a skillcheck at any given second while repairing generators and still a very hefty increase while healing. That's pretty huge, but because the perk has two drawbacks to keep it in line, it can be a pretty unappealing perk to use outside of niche applications like Autodidact.

    I had a thread about this myself a while ago, but I think a fun way of buffing this perk would be to tie in to the theme of nearing a deadline, and having the restrictions removed as you get hooked. Start of the match, it works exactly as it does now. After one hook, you still need to be injured but they're no longer in random positions. After two hooks, they're in normal positions and the effect applies while healthy.

    That'd make it more appealing and accessible while still keeping the really powerful effect in check.

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,886

    What if instead of hook states, it was tied to generators completed? Like it starts at +3% and adds another +3% for each generator that's repaired. Or maybe apply it based on the generator's repair progress itself so you get more and more skillchecks the closer the generator is to being completed.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,832

    I think hook states is both a more meaningful balancing factor, and much more thematic to the idea of the perk- you're closer to failing your deadline the closer you are to death, spurring you on to be more efficient. Conversely, you're closer to meeting your deadline the closer you are to leaving the trial, so that pressure doesn't apply.

    Plus, while gen repairs are probably the strongest use of Deadline, it's not just for gen repairs. It also applies to healing, and that's no slouch either here.

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,886

    You're right, I forget it applies to healing too. Well, any idea is a good one compared to what we have now, if you ask me. If we did it your way, I'd do it differently, and add bonuses instead of remove drawbacks, though I'd remove the injured requirement completely since it would be tied to hook states instead.

    • No Hooks: Skillchecks are placed randomly.
    • 1 Hook: Good and Great Skillcheck zones increase by +20%. Missed skillcheck penalty is reduced to -5%.
    • 2 Hooks: Good and Great Skillcheck zones increase by +40%. Missed skillcheck penalty is reduced to -2.5%.

    They'd still be random but they'd become easier to do the closer you are to dying, with penalties mitigated further and further.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,832

    That'd work too, for sure. The perk has a very strong effect, so what it needs is to become more accessible without going overboard, in my opinion.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,818

    make it work when healthy. I sometimes run this with Barbic inspiration and Stake out as sort of a joke build.

  • ReverseVelocity
    ReverseVelocity Member Posts: 4,555

    I honestly don't know why it has an Injured requirement. Make it work while Healthy and it'd be at least useable.

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,616

    I think because of how much room for synergy it has and effectively how susceptible to being strong when cheating the perk is in a fine spot

    Not counting for time during a skill check (because I can't do the math for it) heres how much time normal vs skillchecks vs deadline can save

    Normal gen time 90s

    Normal gen time with skillchecks 84s (90/13.4) * 12.5)

    Gen time with Deadline 80.7s

    Now in effective numbers this means you complete gens at

    100% speed

    107% speed

    and 111.5% speed

    On its own its not bad a 5% increase in gen speed while injured is doable and you can easily combine it with a few other normal gen speed perks to get stuff like 120% with resilience or 126% but then if you add any amount of perks it has synergy with the numbers go astronomical

    Hyperfocus on average takes ~43 seconds to reach max efficiency and by that time you have repaired 55 charges of a generator and then finish repairing that generator after another ~27 seconds for a ~70 second gen (which is already crazy) 128%.

    With deadline that ramps up in ~25 seconds to reach max efficiency, and by that time you have repaired 37 charges of the generator and then finish repairing that generator after another ~39s for a ~64s generator you are nearing a 50% increase in gen speed off a 2 perk combo, which subtle cheaters will love to see buffed (140% speed)

    Now if even a 2 perk combo like this reaches critical mass before doubling the numbers or removing downsides id imagine that buffing it will cause it to go into the stratosphere

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 1,002
    edited October 29

    Absolutely. While the basic chance to trigger a skill check (on a repair) is 8% and Deadline thus more than doubles it to 18%, skill checks are of course neutral at best and detrimental at worst to get, unless you hit great skill checks. Which is more difficult with Deadline, but even if it weren't, and even if you could reliably hit all great skill checks you get, the repair time reduction is simply not worth it.

    With a chance of 8% per second to trigger a skill check, a 90-second gen (if you do it from 0-100% solo) will on average give you 7.2 skill checks. Since every great skill check grants 1% extra progression, that's 7.2% of 90 seconds, or 6.48 seconds. What has to be kept in mind is that with every great skill check, the repair interaction time is reduced from its 90 seconds, obviously then also decreasing the average number of skill checks you are expected to get. And there also appears to be a safety built into DbD that you cannot get another skill check for a brief time after a previous one, likely to prevent a skill check triggering while another one is already playing. Both meaning that the true average is even lower. We would on top of that have to round down the average when looking at repairs on an actual per-gen basis since you obviously can't get "partial" skill checks. But even if we for simplicity's sake look at this supposed average, Deadline even if you hit all greats only makes for a reduction of 14.58 seconds, minus the 6.48 that you usually get anyway - an 8.1-second reduction in generator repair time… on a solo 0-100% gen, if you hit all greats that are more difficult to hit with the perk (thereby also increasing the risk of missing a skill check and incurring a 10% regression and 3-second progress freeze, which more than nullifies any and all benefits Deadline will have given you), having to be injured for it, and ignoring that the real reduction will be even lower given the fact that the reduced repair time as well as the mechanic preventing consecutive skill checks lowers the average amount of checks you will get. That's beyond awful. Not to mention that it makes various perks (such as Oppression, Overcharge, Huntress Lullaby, Coulrophobia and Merciless Storm) more difficult to deal with, as well as Doctor altogether.

    The only real use case for Deadline ever is alongside Hyperfocus or Autodidact. The latter is not a good perk unless you have a killer employing a hit-and-run strategy and using Mangled/Hemorrhage, in which case you can reliably get 5 tokens on a singular heal anyway by repeatedly starting it over. And the former is not popular because it is already too difficult for most players (including veterans) to consistently hit great skill checks under its effect, often blowing up gens because of it. Deadline makes this a lot more difficult still, so it's not a combo that is feasible for most of any player to truly get reliable value from.

    Removing the injured stipulation is the least they could do. I would welcome if they were to also increase the triggering chances much more, hell, even to something like 40% (i. e. make it multiply chances by 5, like toolboxes do). Give the people that actually go for the challenge something for it. Getting that many skill checks would if anything only make it more challenging. Alternatively, keep it at a lower (but still increased) number but remove the "random location skill check" part. Which is the more boring route.

    Post edited by zarr on
  • SolidRazo
    SolidRazo Member Posts: 118

    the perk just needs to have its skill check bonus increased to like 20% or remove the injured requirement. The perk it’s self is very niche and is mainly to combo with skill check perks like autodidact or hyperfocus

  • SkeletalElite
    SkeletalElite Member Posts: 2,709

    The effect it has now could lack a downside and still be a bad perk since it requires being healthy. Devs should do 2 of the following 3 things:
    Up the strength of the effect

    Remove the downside

    Remove the healthy requirement

    Any 2 of those would put the perk in a spot where it's not terrible

  • AhoyWolf
    AhoyWolf Member Posts: 4,346

    It should be buffed for sure! As of right now the upsides are not really noticable…

    Deadline

    Increases Skill Check trigger odds by 9/12/15%.

    • The odds are doubled when injured.
    • Causes Skill Checks to appear in random places.

    Reduces the missed Skill Check penalty by 50%.

    Simple yet effective!