Reducing toxicity with badges (public pressure)
So dbd is becomming more and more toxic.
Survivors tbag till they have a concussion and killers are tunneling like bots until their brain rots.
I don't want it to become like mw2 or league of legends.
How do we fix this?
Well we could debate about perks and game mechanics over and over again but we all now that people will look for and find a way to bypass these. In the end it's mitigating the result instead of fighting the root issue.
In psychology Solomon Asch teaches us that public pressure/shame or the fear of it leads to aligning with the rules set by society (this is an arbitary interpretation).
The game system has all the tools it needs to identify players who play in a malicious way. (slugging every game, hard tunneling, tbagging the entire match).
None of these "playstyles" are bannable but we could make dbd reflect the kinds of players in the lobby.
the idea of public shaming is already there and is used (like posting -rep's on steam pages).
Having a public list of players who play "bad" would go way to far, BUT how about a badge?
Next to the players name you can see different badges which indicate if the player slugs a lot, tunnels hard, camps, tbags, leaves people on hook on purpose, bodyblocks, humps a survivor or if he helps his teammates, spreads hooks, gives hatch etc.
Because this would be something internal to dbd it wouldn't affect other games (like the -rep on steam does). It would be a clear indicator if the game sees you as a desirable player or someone you don't want to play with.
On top of that it would also affect players from other platforms so nobody can hide from it (not even anonymous players).
Having a negative badge on your name would lead to players dodging you more often. This builds up pressure to "cleanse" your name and play the game "better".
I would also suggest that survivors can see the killers badge in the lobby (to keep it fair).
I know this concept sounds weird at first. However if it leads to less toxicity in dbd it's worth a discussion.
Comments
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As someone who treats salt and -reps as medals already, im in. Give me your badges.
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We need incentives to not be jerks to each other. Stick won't work, gotta use carrot. Anything to encourage not being an ass. Punishments won't work because punishments are more likely to goad people into doubling down on their behavior.
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I don't see how this will lead to anything positive. In this hypothetical world where players are given badges of shame like the scarlet letter, how would the badges be given out? Would it be an automatic system or would players vote at the end of a match and if a certain percentage of players vote a certain way then the player gets a badge? How would players remove the badge? Obviously if the badge is permanent then there is no reason to change your behavior. If anything, this feels like an additional tool for players to troll each other with which would only lead to more hostility.
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I'm sorry, but I don't think mentally pressuring people to act "well" by our moral code is a very healthy thing to do, specially in a game like dbd
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This reads like you never played Xbox Live, which has a similar system. Players can report each other as unsportsmanlike or such things, and it gives them a "reputation". It's also completely ineffective cause there is no oversight, so you will have salty and upset players report each other just to ruin the other's rep.
Now imagine that same thing but in DbD. Killer stomps us? Well they're a toxic piece because they didn't let us reset. Killer uses NOED, camps, tunnels? Survivors genius, bodyblock, entity forbid are in a SWF? You can see. Heck, there is already a giant issue of players doing false reports and wasting the devs time. This would just exasperated the issue
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needs an Overwatch like endorsement system maybe the higher you are the more bloodpoints. Endorsement 1 10% extra bp. Endorsement 2 25% more bp, Endorsement 3 50% more bp etc
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Karma / Endorsement / Reputation / whatever you want to call it systems just don't work in an asym and they won't, players will -rep -karma not endorse, downvote, ect the other side for ANY little reason, and it will mean nothing within a matter of hours for countless reasons, interesting thought but not the genre for it.
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Ya it would be abused a lot. So many insta downvotes on ant TTV/YT games.
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I mean I think most toxicity (if you take away just the normal toxicity that is in every online game) is this game is incredibly imbalanced. A lot of people that play exploit this or eventually become toxic because they don't.
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Unless the punishments are such a determent on them being able to play the game then it will
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Make it so Swfs can't downvote nor the killer can. Would that fix it?
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Give it Overwatch Decay so your slate will become clean by either a decay back to normal.
Obviously survs will just downvote the killer so make it you can only endorse the killer or abstain. Swfs cannot endorse each other nor downvote bomb a soloQ. SoloQ can endorse or downvote teammates
It can work just gotta think it though more
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I disagree if we provide the proper incentives and adversions it could definitely work
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The only way this would work is if the badges are assigned by the game and not the players. So for example, if you DC in X% of your games, you get a "frequent disconnector" badge, etc. However, how would you measure teabagging/"watch me leave" programmatically without false positives? How strict would you be with camping using AFC bar as a measure, or with tunneling as survivor dying as Xth hook stage overall? How would you even begin to measure "justified" slugging?
Overall I think this system is good intentioned and a creative idea, but 1: I don't think the devs care, 2: I don't trust them to implement a good system with few enough false positive and false negatives, and 3: I don't think they even have time to make something like this.
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What proper incentive?
Oh the killer won the match, downvote
Oh the survivors won the match, downvote
Oh the survivors lost but they teabagged me once, downvote
Oh the killer lost the match but they were playing X killer I don't like, downvote
Oh the survivors won the match because they brought 4 toolboxes in a swf, downvote
Oh the.
Oh the..
Oh the….
There are too many things in dbd that people like / hate, see, deal with, don't understand, don't care to understand, won't ever understand to possibly expect people to play nice with a system that could do things like force people to have a worse matchmaking experience, no matter what rewards / adversions id expect it to just deteriorate into someone won or did some minor offense to me, im gonna press the curse their bloodline button
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Then we'll make it an endorsement only system
Killers cannot be downvoted only endorsed
Survivors can only be endorsed
Swfs cannot endorse each other
You can also abstain
Incentives increasing BP Shards and XP multipliers, unique banners portraits skins, cosmetics once they reach a certain endorsement rank
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I'm in.
But only for the chaos.
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Not interesting enough
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Just came out of a game with a killer that had 145 pages of -rep on steam. I don't think badges will do anything to improve the situation.
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People would strive to get the badges, it would have the opposite effect. Also, if people that felt they played fair were given the badges by salty players reporting them, it might have the opposite effect and make them go "Oh, so the game thinks I'm toxic even though I'm playing nice? I'll show them toxic!"
The only thing that can be done to combat the toxicity is adding basekit mechanics to help players deal with things like getting bodyblocked in a corner by your teammates or the killer, or getting bled out. But there isn't, so there's that. Also removing endgame chat or making it opt-in or something would help because then there would be less of a reaction to be had, so there's less fun in being toxic.
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-rep means nothing because people get a -rep just for playing in a way the opposition disagrees with...toxic or not. Tunnel, camp, slug, use noed, more than 2 aura perks, get 4k, use a killer they don't like can result in -rep
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yes, you got the problem
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Having a negative badge on your name would lead to players dodging you more often. This builds up pressure to "cleanse" your name and play the game "better".
I would also suggest that survivors can see the killers badge in the lobby (to keep it fair).
BHVR doesn't want people dodging. That's bad for matchmaking, it messes up the lobbies.
I think survivor badges that can be earned are good, as long as they're only shown on the end game scoreboard and not before the match. I'd like for survivors to be able to earn a badge or badges by playing as a team. No negative badges, only positive. Encourage team play.
As killer, I don't want badges. I want the game to be balanced and to reward and incentivize killers properly. As someone who prefers to spread out hooks, I don't want a badge. I don't want the game to thank me for playing nice against my opponents. Something about the very idea of that annoys me. If you play a game with someone, do you want to be thanked for not trying your best to win? Or with the hatch thing, yeah, sometimes killers give the hatch, but the game shouldn't reward them a gold star for doing it a bunch; that's a case-by-case thing, it shouldn't be treated as an expectation. The killer is not a babysitter, they're not playing Connect-Four with their pre-school niece and letting her win, they don't need to be patronized with stickers designed to imply "thanks for being nice while playing the bad guy role."
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Ill be honest, using mental pressure to try and control players in your game is the most 1984 game design idea ive seen yet.
I much rather just give players a suggestion of good sportsmanship instead.1 -
God, I aspire to harvest these levels of salt. What a champion.
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Not only does this idea have a myriad of issues, such as false reports, increased toxicity towards others, etc. It just won't work the way you think it will.
I tunnel, camp and slug my fair share, especially in games that are close, or not in my favour, because they're undeniably effective strategies that can be used to turn the tide. Same with Survivor, I'll bodyblock and take chase aggressively when a teammate who's dead on hook is in peril.
I'm not doing these things to deliberately annoy the other side, I'm doing them because they're good strategies, and sometimes straight up necessary. I generally try to match the energy of the lobby accordingly, because hard tunnelling in a lobby that is clearly mismatched in your favour is a bit of a dick move.
A badge won't stop me from doing these things. It's like people in the end game chat who try and shame you with things like "nice tunnel" or "nice camp" or whatever. Like, yeah, that's what I was aiming to do, thanks for noticing.
People who are doing these things with the specific intent of ruining the other side's gameplay will likely try and achieve as many badges as possible. Like a badge of (dis)honour, if you will. There are some people who genuinely enjoy ruining games for others, which shame has no effect on, and giving them a unique status will only encourage that.
Not only is your idea ineffective, it's counterproductive.
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To clear up the confusion (which I didnt thought would occur).
When I mentioned the game having all the necessities to track behviour I meant the system to be automatic. No player involvement.
You can remove a badge over time by playing different.
And honestly after just playing one match today, where a blight player hard tunneled at 5 gen's against solo q with one insta dc (so 1 v 3) I just think we need something more "aggressive" to adress the issue.
If people see the killer has a tunnel badge they will dodge him. So if he hardly finds any matches he is pressured to not tunnel anymore.
I don't think luring them with benefits to not tunnel will work better, because after speaking to that blight in the aftergame chat I'm convinced he lacks the brain capacity to understand the core issue. Not meant to sound rude but he didn't see any problem with his playstyle (I guess he never plays survivor) and simply said "equip anti tunnel perks or ask the devs to create comp and casual queues".
With a badge telling you the killer tunnels or camps survivors would at least have a chance to equip anti tunnel perks before the match.Post edited by Atom7k on0 -
I get that messing up queues is a bad thing but I honestly don't think it would have that much of an impact on the average players. You can find matches fairly quick once you noped out of a lobby.
The bigger impact would be on players who bring negative energy to the game. (Obviously the automatic system would need to work well for that)
If you can't find matches quick you either stop playing or have to reconsider your playstyle. Both benefits the game experience. (but not so much the profit of bhvr selling more fortnite skins, so another reason why this will never be implemented).After all I think it is good if people who bring bad energy have less of a chance to spread that energy and are more likely to waste their time.
A little gatekeeping to keep the toxicity out could even the ground (which is currently just lava).0 -
don't think it would have that much of an impact on the average players. You can find matches fairly quick once you noped out of a lobby.
No, I meant backfill. When someone leaves a lobby, the game will pretty much throw out MMR constraints and go for the quickest solution to make sure the people left in the lobby don't have a long wait. It's bad for the game, it screws up the match for both the people who were left in the lobby and the new person who filled in the vacated spot. It's why the devs keep doing things to minimize lobby dodging (like removing grades and then recently prestiges from the lobby).
The person who left the lobby gets to pick and choose their match, their selfish behavior works out fine for them. The people who are left behind and the one who fills in are the players who are negatively affected.
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I would love a reputation system, the community is without a doubt getting more toxic and hostile towards one another. Hell id be happy with the "block" button just preventing me from playing with the person ever again. Wont have a super visible result but eventually they'll have horrible queue times due to their behavior. the "im not responsible for your fun" crowd can enjoy their long waits.
literally ANYTHING, be it tiny or big to incentivize sportsmanship and just not being a dick, would be spectacular.
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