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Final tunnelling solution
Shoulder the burden, new surv perk, allows to transfer a single hook stage to the teammate you unhook once per trial as long as you aren't dead on hook too.
WYT, guys?
Comments
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It won't stop it. I have seen more face camps endgame the past two days than ever. We shouldn't have to carry anti slug, anti tunnel perks to play the game.
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If everyone brings this perk, Killer needs to get at least 6 hooks before able to kill anyone.
So I guess tunnelling is dead, but at the costs of 4/16 Survivor Perks. I would say that's a win.
That 20 second expose is literally a joke unless killer camps, and is a M1 Killer.
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Definitely seems to be a good anti-tunnel perk on paper, curious to test it out.
I'd be wary of considering it the ultimate end to tunnelling, though. Whatever that looks like, it'll have to be a basekit feature, not a perk.
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If you find yourself a lot being the better survivor of the team and being hooked rarely because of it, this perk rocks.
I think it will be significantly less useful un SoloQ, but that's a SoloQ issue :(
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It's stupid.
The perk by itself is already a tough sell, since it doesn't really give much value to the survivor team, but they had to one-up it by making a mediocre effect get snowed in with extra drawbacks.
'You scream and become exposed'? Really, BHVR?
So if the tunneller does as tunnellers do, and makes their way back to the hook, they now get a free down on what was possibly a healthy survivor and slap them on the hook immediately. So a survivor just ran in, traded places with another survivor, and just became the new tunnel target, effectively changing nothing.
Kudos.
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It's not going to stop the tunneling, it will probably be abused by SWF, and I don't really agree with these patch-like solutions that require you to run a perk. Tunneling should be discouraged by basekit mechanics, not by perks. The same applies to genrushing btw, killers shouldn't need to rely on a trillion slowdown perks for the gens not to fly (kinda unrelated but I'm mentioning it before anyone jumps at me and accuses me of catering to survivor mains or whatever lol).
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Just to let you know, that's basically Make your Choice, but only 1/3 the duration. How many times Killers get downs with that perk?
Not to mention only M1 Killer can benefits from it.
Edit: I just remembered it doesn't have 32 meters requirement, so maybe it's more dangerous than I thought.
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doesnt that make it better because it increases the likelyhood of killer aggroing on YOU giving you the situation with the most control?
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One of the worst perks for solo queue, ever
Don't even bother bringing this when playing solo
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The downside of scream + exposed is terrible
- Lets a tunneling killer know you have it
- Gives them tools to punish you for using it
- Prevents you from taking a hit if killer returns
- Even if killer is not paying attention, if they're tunneling they're likely to return, punishing you for using the perk correctly.
IMO the loss of a hook state is enough of a downside to using the perk. If you somehow need more than that, come up with a different downside, for example, after getting 16 meters away from the unhooked survivor, reveal your aura to the killer for [x] seconds
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i count hooks to make sure i dont tunnel so this kinda sucks for me
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Love the idea behind it though I'm not the biggest fan of the exposed. I'm fine with screaming since the the idea is taking aggro but the exposed is too much; make it oblivious or something else instead.
I'm also more annoyed everyone on Reddit is claiming this was 100% Otz's idea when everyone and their mother has brought this perk idea up for years. -_-
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It's probably game breaking. Tunneling, which you have to do, now solved.
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I am not sure if this will end tunneling as we know it, but this perk will definitely help survivors fight against it and that is amazing.
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My biggest issue with it is you will not see this used in solo queue, the part of the game that needs the most help, but it's going to be disgusting with even a half competent SWF. Imagine 3 people running this and then just having the same survivor get in your face body blocking you while fully healed with OTR (because it doesn't deactivate when someone heals them) and if you do catch them it can be mitigated by someone else taking that hook instead.
And they can then go and do it AGAIN. Very niche thing that can be easily done in a SWF.
Absolutely awful idea and will encourage hook proxying even more to make sure you get the exposed survivor.
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This might be a record for number of incorrect statements in the fewest number of words.
It isn't game breaking, and even tells the killer you're using it. And since camping, tunneling, and specifically going back to hook are hard meta, your likely to go down by being exposed too.
Tunneling isn't necessary, but even if you're so biased as to think it is, this perk isn't nearly strong enough to completely counter tunneling.
If they can't even make DS 5 seconds without people complaining enough to get them to revert the buff, there's zero chance they're going to make an anti tunnel perk that's more than barely functional. And this one likely just makes you the tunneling target, and half kills you to do it.
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If they can't even make DS 5 seconds without people complaining enough to get them to revert the buff
It is wild that DS never got the 5 seconds back.
It was perfectly fine for a stun that you, as a killer, can easily avoid. They shouldn't have nerfed it back to 4.
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Yeah, the disabling in end game and conspicuous actions were perfectly valid.
The fact that they reverted the 5s back to 4 is infuriating, and tells me they just can't bring themselves to make anything functional against tunneling.
Especially since the initial 5s change also came with the *longer* animation, so survivors still only got about 2s of distance somehow. Like, everything about that change was the devs being half hearted and not genuinely caring about the tunneling issue.
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It won't stop tunnelling. It does add another way of playing. An example would be seeing someone giving long, fantastic chases, so you may want to take a hook state from them. It also could reduce those moments where players lose earlier on because of a tunnel. I actually like this perk!
What I don't think is necessary is the scream and Exposed status. From the Killer's point of view, they haven't lost a hook state, but it's been shuffled. What would punish the Killer for tunnelling more would be trying to get that one Survivor out, only to realise too late they have been granted that extra hook. That punishes tunnelling. Thanks to the strange caveat in place, the Killer will now know, recognise the scream and know who to target next.
Remove the scream and *Exposed* caveat, and you would have a somewhat decent perk that can trick the Killer.
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The 20 second exposed is interesting. If the killer is hard tunneling, they were probably going to hit the survivor on the way in and it was going to be a trade anyway, so the exposed doesn't matter. If the killer isn't tunneling at all then the 20 seconds will likely be gone before they get back. So the 20 seconds will only be relevant if the killer is kind of in the area already, or playing something like a Dredge who can get back instantly.
Though it makes borrowed time have some more use potentially as the unhook now can body block out the exposed.
I'm fine with it as a perk. I don't think it will be completely useless in soloq, but its obviously much stronger for SWFs.
Imagine 3 people running this and then just having the same survivor get in your face body blocking you while fully healed with OTR (because it doesn't deactivate when someone heals them) and if you do catch them it can be mitigated by someone else taking that hook instead.Scenarios like this always though imagine that everything lines up just right for the survivors. What if a different survivor is found off the start? What if it is a killer that can ignore or chew through body blocks? What if the killer is happy with slugging?
Sure, if the survivors come in with this strategy, and they get the right killer to use it against, and the killer plays into it, it would be powerful, but that's a lot of "ifs" that are outside the survivors control.
Or the survivors could just ignore the complex planning and just gen rush.
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It shouldn't have either a scream or Exposed. It would still be questionable for solo queue with the lack of coordination but it might be useful if there were no tells it was used. As it is it's decent for SWFs but it will be limited utility for solos.
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I don't think it needs the Expose, as that's just going to encourage proxy camping. It also doesn't really help when the killer is both tunneling AND camping.
If it loses the scream as well... well as someone who likes to spread hooks and is usually disappointed when I eliminate a survivor too early, I'd appreciate the telegraph. If not survivor hookstates on the killer HUD.
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I think it would be nice if they replaced the exposed with aura reveal for a few seconds.
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Also a good idea. It would better indicate who made the unhook and allow you to track hookstates.
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BHVR made the same mistake again. Instead of reworking abusable mechanics, they try to fix them with perks. Camping - use Reassurance, tunneling - Decisive Strike / Off the Record, slugging - Unbreakable, and now they introduce this one. So if you want to survive - use full meta to counter every possible scenario (and then they nerf meta because it's a meta).
Btw yet another perk that buffs experienced and competitive SWF players, who are good in looping and will trade hooks 100% of the time, but will suck in solo q.
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The fact that it is a perk is cringe, even if it is available with iri shards as non licensed. Making new player grind even worse to unlock basic anti tunnel and QOL perks like new killers have to get their slowdowns. The 20 seconds of exposed will mean that killers will counter this by proxying the hook, and encourages survivors who got unhooked to bodyblock with basekit BT and use antitunnel perks offensively.
I do like this perk, don't get me wrong, anything in a solo queue team's kit to help each other being tunneled is good, but realistically, you will just see proxy camping to confirm the tunnel or secure a free second stage on someone who uses it, and killers that don't tunnel will be seeing a survivor run to the hook mid chase, use this, and the unhooked guy bodyblocks with basekit BT, because you kinda have to or you give a free 2nd stage down. Expect to see an increase in "unfun" playstyles.
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I agree with this, encourage taking aggro after unhook and not stealthing and letting the guy who got unhooked fend for himself. Perk would still encourage camping but you would not see it as much imo.
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Yes, I think the idea is taking aggro instead of just letting the unhooked survivor be killer bait.
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I don't think it will have much effect on tunneling. Soloq players are the most selfish players in the game (as a generalisation). I doubt people will give up their hook stage to keep a random players in the game especially when they seem so adamant to get the hatch.
It may be useful for swf but if 1 survivor doesn't last long in a chase while the others can loop better... They would be throwing away a hook stage. Just means the killer doesn't have to down the strong looper as many times.
On top of that, survivors are already complaining about the increase in slugging due to basekit mori. If the perk had any effect then it would just further the need to slug. I mean why hook people if it makes it harder for the killer? Slug them and bypass the whole problem.
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it’s terrible and also mmm the interaction with Make your choice is?
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this perk is pointless/useless is solo queue and potentially breaks the game in a strong swf . No killer is 12 hooking a good sfw unless you are knightlight playing nurse with full meta .
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Worst perk they could make…
- Wont benefit the solo survs, noobs or casuals.
- Will make bully squads even worse.
- Gonna encourage slugging.
- Gonna encourage camping.
(I mostly play solo and i wont be using it in any situation or benefit from it as no solo survs gonna use it and my casual group of friends dont have the necessary hability to use it, and as a killer this gonna be hell on earth, this DLC gonna be horrible).
SOLUTION:
- Change it to the smoke grenade from the last event.
- Change it to the party pallets from before the masquerade event.
EVERYONE would enjoy any of these 2 perks and the DLC would sell even more.0 -
its definitely going to make bad or lowskilled survivors lose games because they wouldn't understand when to use it. which will definitely affect the people's perception of this perk even though it's very powerful.
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tf is a killer supposed to do other than this at the end game? Should I patrol the gens while the exit gates are opened?
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Trading a hook stage can be of insane value. To give it a downside would not be unwarranted. But making it aura instead of exposed is not a good idea. With all the complaints about aura reading that would not be appreciated.
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Honestly, I'm not sure I like this perk at all.
I already know I will never see it in any of my SoloQ games (I can't even get a heal from some of my teammates, nevermind a hook state), where it would be the most useful.
And I'm sure SWFs will use it to deny late / endgame kills in lots of my Killer games. I like to think I play fair for most of the trial, but I will sometimes camp and tunnel to secure Kills toward the end of a trial when there are only 1 or 2 gens left. I don't think Killers should be punished for that. Anti tunnel perks should only really be for countering early game hard tunnelling, imho.
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Well, if [insert perk] is a solution to a basekit mechanic it already missed the point.
On average it'll incentivise proxy camping; it's even better than a trade. Make someone go from fresh to death hook within 20 seconds. Yum.The only situation where it actually benefits the survivor side is if the skill gap between them is so large that a surv who shouldn't be in that match because they're too good protects another surv who also shouldn't be in that match because they're not good enough. - For swf who know about these skill gaps that might be an option; a chase affectionado that gets left by the killer, who wants to find the potato, can keep that potato in the match for longer. ….. Which I think is not the way to go.
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>Well, if [insert perk] is a solution to a basekit mechanic it already missed the point.
not when a mechanic is a legitimate strategy.
the perk is very powerful as a rock/paper/scissors counterplay, on part with unbreakable or reassurance, the only difference is that due to the way it works, it takes skill to use and not throw the game with it.
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This reminds me of that comic about anime girls
Girls in anime when their crush walks in on them changing: "Idiot! Perv! How could you‽"
Girls when at a beach with their crush wearing a bikini: "Like what you see? Come feast your eyes."
The counterpoint, of course, being that in the first scenario the girl did not consent to have her aura read, which is why she's complaining about it. She's more than fine having her aura read when she consents to, and has control over, the situation. If someone's running a perk tontry to get people de-tunneled, they're probably going to be OK with it having a feature that would make the killer conform them instead while allowing them to keep the killer occupied for a little while. The current downside of exposed means the killer can just insta down you and either keep tunneling or hook you and know you're on death hook.
Besides, I'm not the only one in this thread, even, proposing giving it an aura read instead of the exposed.
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Unless you are a good looper it doesn't make sense to use this perk. The only thing you will achieve is taking the killer focus, you will get hooked quickly and find yourself in your second phase waiting to be tunnelled to your death. So no, don't expect the average DBD player to sacrifice themselves for a stranger.
It will simply be abused in those situations where the killer has already give up after facing a strong premade and decides to at least kill one.
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My prediction is that you won't see this perk much. Its strong and really good to have but people won't drop their meta perks.. or distortion.
I will take off my we'll make it and use this perk to help people who are possibly getting tunneled, but soloQ doesn't care about teammates.
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yeah, same. this perk takes game sense to use and most dbd players lack it. it's crazy strong when you use it at the right times.
judging by this thread's replies, people want a perk that takes zero thought or risk to use and has no actual counterplay, they simply want a "delete tunnelling entirely" perk/mechanic and won't settle for anything less. which is a sad mentality, honestly.
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While devs have said in the past they consider camping, tunneling and squad slugging legitimate strategies, we have also learned that it doesn't come with a carte blanche (otherwise neither basekit bt, nor what they call afc would be a thing). There's a line. - The way I see it, this perk is only useful once that line has already been crossed.
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?? can you be more cryptic please
what is even your point here? the perk is bad because it works when the strategy is being implemented aka killer goes out of their way to tunnel which is bad exactly why?
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As much as I agree that we have way too much aura reading these days, I think it would work for this perk specifically.
Because it prevents you from using the recently unhooked survivor as bait. You're kinda supposed to take aggro for them.
Alternatively, we can just remove the downside. That would also work. Many survivor perks are nowhere near as good as they used to be, having one strong perk without a downside wouldn't hurt.
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It's not at all cryptic. - "Camping, tunneling and slugging is part of the game" is not a black and white thing. It very much is "some forms of camping, tunneling and slugging are part of the game, while others are deemed too extreme and should be counter-able with basekit mechanics". Proof for that are basekit bt and afc.
In my opinion, the cases in which the new perk actually does provide value are also the cases that fall into the category of "too extreme" and should therefore be counter-able with basekit mechanics.1 -
Tunnelling is a legitimate strategy similar to how pre 6.1 DH for distance was a legitimate strategy. That it's allowed doesn't mean it doesn't give a disproportionate advantage to the person using it.
Unfortunately, the only way to fix it in my opinion is to change base game mechanics. In the majority of public matches this perk is neither powerful nor useful and might be actively detrimental. If the Killer is planning on tunnelling a survivor and someone comes in and screams the Killer knows the screaming survivor is now down a hook stage and Exposed. By targeting the unhooker who should be pretty easy to hit at least once the unhooker now can't give a chase and will be either on death hook once hooked or dead if they had a hook state coming in. A tunnelling Killer with an ounce of sense will just tunnel the unhooker out instead now.
4 person SWFs will get a large amount of utility from it as they can coordinate hook trades. However, they're a tiny proportion of matches and it's solo queue that needs help; not stacked SWFs. This perk is a band aid that doesn't even stem the bleeding for the group that actually needs it.
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then your point is simply wrong because this perk doesn't counter extreme cases of tunnelling, just like UB doesnt counter extreme cases of slugging.
extreme cases of tunnelling is when a killer gets a kill at 5 gens without survivor giving up. no amount of hook stage trades will aid that.
however this perk will definitely help to guarantee a tunnelling killer without a kill on last gen doesn't get that kill. or to spread hookstages even more and counter bounce back / ping pong strat when killer targets only 2 survivors repeatedly.
which brings me back to the thing I already mentioned in this thread - this perk is not an ultimate "delete tunnelling" button and that's why people won't bring it despite it being gamechanging
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thats like me comparing using pain res dms and playing on garden of joy. you may be correct (doesnt mean you are or that I think you are) but these things are hardly comparable and that comparison only compromises your point.
tunnelling cant be solved without changing base game mechanics, that's correct, and here's a follow up fact: you do not base game mechanics to change because removing tunnelling as part of it will inherently involve balancing the game around killer's inability to potentially remove survivor early.
games where killers do not have to tunnel at all are usually stomp with fast chases or a lot of tunnelling or gen defending. and I dont think changing base game mechanics and not removing tunnelling as concept would be possible in that paradigm.
if you want to cut out a pretty important part of killer's skill expression and ability to gain pressure, you'll have to make up for that elsewhere. do you really want chases to get even shorter? or gens to become longer? or have some other absurd mechanic to make up for killer not being able to tunnel? because realistically, just like this game is NOT balanced around only solo or swfs, this game is also not balanced around ONLY tunnelling or not tunnelling killers. removing that part of the equation will force devs to balance the game for only one part of the spectrum.
this game hinges so ######### hard on survivors not playing to win and killers being chill, you cant even imagine the degree of that. "fixing" tunnelling is an example of forcing chill killers who play inefficiently to play efficiently. same kind of nonsense as adding VC to the soloqs.
You do not want this game being forced to become even more competitive than it normally is.
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