All the people complaining about killers running full gens slowdown builds watch this please
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When someone tries to bring the killer experience up for conversation, a bunch of survivor mains, claiming to play killer at the highest level, winning every game, come to demerit the opinion.
Emotional, newbies or gentle tactics cannot be used to balance a game. Variables where the player is not trying to win, cannot be used to nerf or buff a class. That’s how it is. You cannot make the game gentler for the survivors because of factors that are not in the game developer hands. If sometimes you get bad teammates that doesn’t mean that killer is op.
When you get a decent team of survivors, it’s not easy to win. Gens are flying these days. Going for community expectations of how killers should play would net cero victories for killers if he is facing survivors that are playing to win. Period.
I know competitive is not the experience we get in solo Q, but, when every single game, (the first one, because after they play for hook stages) REQUIRES the killer to tunnel and face camp a hook, that should tell you something about the state of the game.
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I haven’t seen anyone complain about quad slowdown in months.
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Because nowadays after yet another nerf it's not that much of an issue anymore.
But it's same schema every single day
→ There is some kind of absurdly powerful perk combo.
→ Killer mains are abusing such combo.
→ They are winning way more games than they should be, but they are reliant on such perks.
→ BHVR nerfs said perks.
→ "omg literally killers have to tunnel because there is no other way" - no, there was a way, learning to play this game & not be so reliant on perks. You are in higher MMR than you should be, it's your fault and now you will be stomped by the most coordinated SWFs with highest MMR.
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High chance that they've stream sniped him bringing all that. Very unlikely they do that in a normal lobby.
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They hate him because guy tends to speak the unpleasant truth.
The fact that survivor-favored posts get 2 or 3 times more upvotes than killer-favored ones should be a good enough indicator how biased this forum is. It's also the reason why developers shouldn't rely on people feedback when opinions that benefit one certain side often get voiced much louder than the other.
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That is a good indicator of how important is the slowdown build and how much impact it has on killer's performance. When it comes to the average killers, they depend on slowdown build even more.
The so-called chill game works well only for survivors. Killers who play chill tend to lose much more often because they have far less space for errors.
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As a survivor main I just wish I got paired with survivors like the ones in this video more often. Getting paired with 3 other survivors that will actually make working gens a priority is exceedingly rare in solo queue.
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simple: for every 1 killer main there are 4 survivors main
It’s actually funny, they don’t care what happens in the video, the main thing is who’s in the video as if true says that 2+2=4 some people will run out and say that he is wrong1 -
No disrespect but I mean isn’t all of this always an mmr discussion? If you play and win and win and win then yeah, you’re increasing your difficulty no?
So if you want to play easy mode but your mmr is in ultimate mode then you’re probably going to get stomped back down to hard mode. Again, if you want to play relaxed, well being in hard mode you’ll probably get stomped back down again to medium-hard mode. This keeps happening until your play style finds the 60% kr equilibrium.
Now if you are in low mmr like I am going for 8 hooks is more feasible. Running meme builds are also doable because Survivors at that low mmr often times give the killer free time by never being on gens.
If you sweat you get put with sweats. Though if you’re chill then eventually you’ll get put with all the cool players.
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This.
But people generally don't want to listen because it also means killer in particular is largely a choose your difficulty role.
If you constantly sweat or play chill you're going to win about 60% of your games either way. It's just how hard do you want to work for it.
Most of the "MMR is bad" discussions come from wanting to have their cake and eat it too: they can play sweaty and win every game while their opponents never get any more challenging and always offer a "chill" (easy) game.
You see it most when there's a broken meta perk or strategy that boosts players way out of their skill level. Things like the slugging epidemic, hard tunneling, or gen kick meta take next to nothing to execute for easy wins... Until people boost their MMR, can't handle their opponents any more, and usually rage post on the forums about how the game needs to be changed again.
You might argue that a full 4-man SWF has a similar situation too. But in general solo survivor has too many wildcards just from teammates to pick your difficulty.
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alltough yes you are right. One thing i highlly dislike about dbd is : you can never really know what you will go up against . I can use a meme or non meta build and be fine for a few matches . However you never know what energy the other side is in . Are they doing tomes mostly ? Just joking around ? Are they here to do all gens in 4 min a leave ?
are they a 2 or 3 or 4 man ?
are they a 4 man swf with full coms who will be using the clock system for callouts with 16 meta perks and 4 meta items who will also bring you to badham pre school to have the max advantage ?
are they 4 solos listening to music and barelly paying attetion in the match ?
the fact all these scenarions could be true in different games makes it hard to have build variety . Most people play it safe with multiple slowdowns the same way nany survivors play it safe with heavy anti tunnel builds as a just in case . I'm not asking to know if i'm vs a swf or not but something to know what kind of match the otherside is looking for would be nice.0 -
Most of the "MMR is bad" discussions come from wanting to have their cake and eat it too: they can play sweaty and win every game while their opponents never get any more challenging and always offer a "chill" (easy) game.
I am not sure about this one, my friend.
I think most of those discussion have an absolutely valid point: the fact that SBMM doesn't work for DBD. This system has been causing problems since it was first added to the game.
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Exactly. A Prime Example was the Blight-player who lost his Winstreak of almost 2000 to a very strong team which wanted to win the game.
This person was sweating for almost 2k games, every game, bringing the strongest stuff all the time, stomping thousands of pub Survivors. But was getting a Meltdown when he faced a team who did the same (and obviously this was such a big problem that Survivors can do that. Winning against a Killer on a 2k Winstreak is a big bad thing, but achieving that 2k Winstreak should be completely fine, he is just good at the game…).
Same with videos of the specific content creator in OP - he is winning most of his games. But when he loses a game, it is suddenly a big problem.
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because it also means killer in particular is largely a choose your difficulty role.
Yeah huh? You’re right! I love to learn and to see new perspectives, thanks for sharing this.
Until people boost their MMR, can't handle their opponents any more, and usually rage post on the forums about how the game needs to be changed again.
I'll be honest, I was kind of like this a little bit when I started actively participating here on the forums. It wasn’t until I stopped and read what everyone wrote and sincerely took in/respected everyone’s perspective that I realized it was me who was deviated from the actual. I feel bad for acting like that so I’m trying my best to listen before I judge.
If I made it maybe there’s hope that others can reform? I still feel awful for possibly downplaying and disrespecting those I was arguing with.
But in general solo survivor has too many wildcards just from teammates to pick your difficulty.
Yes very true I have to agree. It’s much more difficult if not impossible getting a relaxing Survivor game. Unless of course dying happens to be a relaxing past time lol
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If you look at the video in first post, you will notice that two out of 4 survivors intentionally progressed to stage 2, despite being organized and playing mostly efficiently. Granted 3 of them managed to escape, in reality all 4 could had done that if they patiently stayed on hook instead.
What I mean here is MMR can't take a human factor into consideration. Even at high MMR ( we may assume that True has at least high MMR, right? ) there can be people who will try to do the same and lose 2 hook stages intentionally at which point killer can just tunnel them out and finish them off. If True actually did that when he still had 3 gens left instead of trying to go for another target he would have 1 survivor dead with 3 gens left remaining. His odds of getting at least another survivor out would be significantly higher and there even would had been a small chance to get 3rd guy hooked or even entire team caught on altruistic mistake.
In other words MMR only theoretically ''reduces'' the chance of throw but doesn't guarantee it. No system provide a truly ''fair'' match because the biggest ''random'' factor here is human player himself. There's always a chance things go wrong, regardless of MMR of all players.
As far as I know there's also the so-called ''no-drop'' cap where if you are in ultra high rank and keep losing ( intentionally or not ) the lowest drop possible for you will be high rank. No amount of losses will let you go from high rank to medium rank or lower. There's also no MMR ''reset'' and the so-called ''decay'' will temporarily drop you from ultra high rank to high rank for few matches if you haven't played for a while but will never go beyond the ''no-drop'' cap. Simply speaking if you want to have chill games, you should intentionally stay at 50% win-rate, regardless of how your opponents play, which in turn will create an illusion that MMR system does it's job because you will be getting matches where you either stomp or get stomped thus maintaining the rank you do desire.
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Absolutely this. The extreme cases for both survivor and killer have needed to be hemmed in for a very long time. Gens are especially a subject that need to have their +/- extremes addressed.
That said, I think a lot of people are missing the point, mostly because of who it came from. I get that his personality and ego can be kinda irritating, but I'm pretty sure the point of this match was showing that the survivors did the gens about as fast as cooking instant ramen. That type of extreme is the issue, it was less than 3 minutes before the last gen popped, and that was with someone on hook (they even tried to 4% to boost the efficiency which gets mistaken for trying to go next, funny enough.) That shouldn't be possible regardless of strategy or build.
Also I noticed a lot of people commenting on his build, but he regularly plays user submitted builds, sometimes people even snipe then get him to sabotage himself with the build they submit (which could certainly be what happened here.) Without watching his stream I wouldn't know for sure, but that is a thing he does.
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Survivors get the courtesy for not getting shamed constantly
There's a thread like this twice a dayon the forums wym?
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BTW, I'm 99% sure that's the 4 stack that does world record escape speedrun attempts. They have the builds that squad usually brings. Although this extreme example should certainly be fixed, we shouldn't pretend a 4 stack specifically going all in on repair speed going against a meme build is representative of normal gameplay. Although it may feel like it, you don't regularly go against SWFs like this.
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Feel Like they need to set a cap or something to limit just how much you can get to reduce the stacking. There's no reason we should have builds that can cut the time of a gen repair by half or more. I don't want any individual part nerfed, just limited to encourage people to not run this stuff together.
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i dont think they can do much about it except implementing very long warranted "No same perks/items" rule that should at least prevent 4x of the same stuff.
yeah, it'll hurt "le fun" aspect, but i feel like survivors being able to stack same perks/items really bottlenecks the proper balancing.
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How is getting out in 3 minutes and spending more time in queue than in game "fun" though? I read all the time how survivors DYING after 3 minutes is unfun, but somehow doing gens and dipping in 3 minutes before even being chased is different? Was it the skillchecks that made it fun, lol? This kinda just reminds me of the depip squad back in the day. That team wasn't doing it for fun so much as doing it to prove a point.
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the argument against "same perks forbidden" rule is not about such builds in particular. it's about the general fact people wouldnt be able to run the stuff they want because someone else already has it.
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I feel like you are drastically misunderstanding me. I'm not saying perks should be greyed out or anything. I'm saying they should do something along the lines of setting a limit of speed ups. If said limit was 15% for example, you COULD bring a perk that boosts by 6%, another that boosts by 9% and another that boosts by 8%, but even if you somehow trigger all of their requirements at the same time, you WOULDNT get a combined 23%.
I've been in favor of said limits for AWHILE now. Its a similar situation that Forever Freddy was, except reversed. For some reason instead of setting a slowdown limit, they gut the addons and called it a day. I hope that maybe in the future when they release speed up perks...maybe take a page out of autodidact's book. Its a perk that builds up to a good effect rather than immediately starts off amazing so you don't have it making huge strides until the game has been going for awhile.
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As much as I dislike Tru3, calling him a slightly above killer main really doesn't help your point all too much. He might not be as good as he thinks he is, but he certainly is a good killer player.
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The man says some harsh truths, that is true. He is also a champion of turning a blind eye toward other truths that would weaken 'his side.'
Biggest example of this is when Twins got a rework. Victor was blatantly OP as the player demonstrated by downing a survivor from healthy in seven seconds. Yet he made no remark on how astronomically busted that is and instead ranted the whole video on how Charlotte having to walk 10 seconds to pick up a survivor was the real problem.
People dislike the ego, but I personally dislike the dishonesty the most, and there are other mental gymnastics he makes (such as defending old Compound 21 that essentially gave you massive and lingering aura reading while rushing) to justify leaving broken things for his side. He hides it better than the ego, though.
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So... if this same exact game was shown but it was a different content creator in the corner, would your thoughts be different?
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All the people complaining about Killers running full Generator slowdown builds watch this please
> (Tru3Talent Video)
I feel like I could sense this from a mile away that it was going to be a Tru3 video.
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“They hate him because guy tends to speak the unpleasant truth.”
Nope it’s because he is very biased
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this post became pointless once you someone shared their builds.
So a 4 man clearly bringing the strongest gen builds, happens to match against a person bringing zero gen defense, and per usual forum logic: killer too weak, let's balance game around this cherry picked, extreme scenario that is not representative of your typical match
nice
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I think it's more about how extreme ends shouldn't be possible like this. This game was basically decided on the perk selection screen. It really SHOULDNT be possible to stack so much gen speed that the game is over this quick. I'd say the same for SLOWDOWN stuff, but those at least tend to have anti-synergy with each other.
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I'd have the same opinion, because showing an extreme example that hardly ever happens is not really proving anything.
That said, to be fully honest, I'd be more sceptical of this content creator than most others because of what I've said. I just don't think he's trustworthy, even if his takes aren't actually wrong a lot of the time.
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There will be complaints about killers no matter what BHVR do and no matter how killers play.
Slugging, tunneling, gen defence, hex defence, aura reading… if killers want to make survivors happy, go stand in a corner and wait for 5 gens. (i even think that will get complaints too).
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People especially in multiplayer games don't usually prep for what happens on average, they prep for the worst case scenario of what might happen. The potential that you might run into something like this is why people play 4 slowdown because its just safer to be over prepped than under prepped. As an example for an argument its fine
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Tru3 cheeses wins largelt by camping and tunneling, and I mean those strategies are readily available to any killer but I wouldn’t consider him a technically good killer main like say an Otzdarva or SpookyLoopz or Hens. Even some survivor mains who play killer are better than Tru3. He isn’t bad, but he isn’t amazingly skilled either.
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I don't know what "trustworthiness" has to do with this. Do you suspect this WASNT a real match but rather paid actors? I'd understand disagreeing with someone's opinions but even if you tune him out... Can you really watch this video and say "Yeah, THATS completely acceptable". This team blew through the gens so fast that things like resource management wasn't even involved. Did any pallets even get tossed? There wasn't any time for any outplaying or any interaction. They didn't win from being good in chases or anything.
It being "rare" is just because teams DECIDE not to do this. It wasn't a case of taking advantage of an opponents misplay or something. It just feels like the message of "if we WANT to win, there's nothing you can do about itso enjoy the games where we decide to go easy on you". They picked one of the most killersided maps to demonstrate this.
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I don't understand why you are going on a tirade about their performance resulting from an assumption you're making. I was not totally clear on what I said, so I will explain. I do not trust this content creator to have good intentions for the game and I believe he is a seedy individual that wants to stack as many advantages as possible for the side he plays the most. In my opinion, he is that sort of player. Which leads me to always question his motivation for posting videos like these. It doesn't help that he wins most of his other games with sellout meme builds anyway.
In your second paragraph, it sounds like the gameplay loop of DBD. Whether it is killer or survivor, if you decide to sweat and bring busted stuff, you're likely to win. They have tournaments where they don't have any restrictions and killers still win about as much as they would with restrictions, so this definitely isn't a "sided" issue.
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I would've liked to see the builds the survivors had. The gens did seem quick. Granted, they spent the first 40 seconds of the trial breaking walls while running a vault speed build. Breaking walls they didn't even have to break. Everyone makes mistakes, but you can't run zero slowdown and also spot the other side 40 seconds. You don't have to break walls in Dead Dawg main when you have Bam.
I don't think anyone is genuinely claiming you can play without any slowdown at all and win consistently. It's more that quad slowdown is obnoxious.
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Why defend the "busted stuff"? Typically obvious busted stuff gets hammered. Iri head being able to get used with infantry belt for example was deemed busted, so it was changed to not be able to be used together. Why if you recognize it's busted are you arguing that its acceptable for THIS kind of stacking? I'm not saying the perks should be nerfed, just that there should be a limit to being used together similar to iri head and infantry belt.
As for Tru3... I don't like the guy either. His presence in the corner of the screen doesn't change the fact that these speeds are SO severe that it can be mistaken for hacking. If someone ELSE was in the corner of the screen, would your thoughts be different that MAYBE having builds that double repair speed is in no way healthy and MAYBE there should be limits to how much you can stack repair speed?
This isn't a case of a content creator complaining that the map is survivor sided and that's why he didn't get downs(Unlike other content he posts) . This is a video that you could mute and come up to your own conclusion that those speeds were nuts. At no point did any survivor loop ANYTHING. They won SHEERLY off time efficiency.
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Where am I defending anything? Where did I say things were acceptable? You might argue I implied it, but I did not. This is just how DBD is right now, there are ways to abuse the busted stuff.
They did loop, his silly gimmick build got him a down in the main building where he shouldn't have chased, especially with his comment accurately remarking on how the gen there gets done almost all the time.
The merit of the video isn't questioned. What I am questioning is why he frequently posts things like this but doesn't once make a remark when he's the one doing the equivalent of this to the other side. Again, it's not like he played excellently - chasing where he announced he'd lose a gen is just trying to fail.
If you're arguing that busted crap like this is not fine, I don't think anyone will disagree with you. People complain about this on both sides. But they remain unchanged, so we for now we live with it. Luckily this is extremely rare.
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im not talking about limiting gen repair speeds in particular though.
im talking about overall limit to prevent 4 man stacking same stuff so that it doesnt backfire in various ways including gen repair stack.
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nobody complain about killers running 4 slow downs anymore. (probably because it no longer a guarantee win)
i really don't like tur3 but he definitely stood no chance at winning that game. Ultimately he lost due to advantage but that not that rare thing when playing dbd. A 4man with decent loopers who good with hyper focus/ stake out... Probably GG. Builds that help rush your objectives will always be cheesy to some degree because it simply give your opponent way less opportunity for skill expression. They should've been cap repair, healing, sabotage, & regression speeds.
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You can see the builds here:
The Survivors REALLY wanted to win. And as already said, this is an extreme case. It is not only the 4 BNPs, but also that the Team has a dedicated person for opening the Gates and Luck Offerings so that they might not even have to go for Saves.
Also, hard agree on the last part - nobody is complaining that Killers are running Slowdowns, but nobody needs to run 4 Slowdowns.
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That's called having an ego problem. Many players in dbd have that.
They played the game for a long time and therefore believe that they are better than everyone else to some extend.
If they lose a game, they often rather blame the games balance than to look at own mistakes or even more important, their behaviour.
Lots of these people live in a world of their own, expecting things to go THEIR way. In a multiplayer 1v4 game...
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As it was suggested already, what if this video came from someone else, like Otz. Would it retain it's original value and point?
Because some people are way too entitled and believe that the fun of majority is more important.
Pretty much how games are unless someone intentionally wants to challenge self or plain lose. It may be unpopular opinion but survivors are less impacted by their load out and map selection than killers on average. Either stack up for maximum advantage or be at the mercy of random or worse.
That's a subjective opinion, regarding the need of 4 slowdowns.
In some cases these stacked 4 slowdowns may be the exact thing that gives certain killer the time to breath and maintain momentum. Saying that this isn't never needed is a wild guess given the possible combination of perks all survivors may have and the map that ends up being selected by the game.
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ok that was creepy, i just checked out the thread again and then this popped up same second 😂.
Because some people are way too entitled and believe that the fun of majority is more important.Normally i would agree with them, but as this is is a 4 vs 1 game, the killers will always be a minority, - so four survivors should count as one killer in this matter.
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I highly doubt that'll happen, because it would be considered nerfing people for playing with their friends.
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not if it would work indiscriminately.
either way that's what will have to happen eventually or we'll be stuck with occasional teams like that & survivor perk design being bottlenecked by "what if they take 3-4 of this perk".
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The question "will this be OP if 4 people bring it" has always kinda haunted balance, but at the same time... I feel like if people load into a lobby to see their loadout greyed out, they'd just lobby shop.It would take forever for a match to start because multiple people wanna use a meta perk or something. The limits to classes in 2v8 MIGHTVE been a trial run for this, but I doubt it'll go beyond 2v8.
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either that or issues like in this thread.
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The issues being what exactly
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