I think these pallets need to be included in 1v4
Or at least 1 of them. Another one could be included downstairs
Thompson House might the THE most killer sided map right now, not even one of the most. Sometimes the left side of the map (considering the main building being at top) is a complete dead zone. And this main building is probably the worst in the game, not even a single pallet to play with, and the vaults are atrocious
What do you guys think?
Comments
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Absolutely not. Those are god pallets, which are bad design because the killer can't do anything once they're dropped. They could have the fastest speed combo in the game (via PWYF, Machine Learning, etc) plus Coup De Grace and Bloodlust 3, and still not get the survivor. So killers have to break them, and then the survivor just gets to the next loop, basically starting the chase over. I don't know how you can call any map in the game "killer-sided" because all of them have at least 1 pallet like this, and many pallets that aren't as strong but can easily waste 30-45 seconds of the killer's time until a right read happens, or they break the pallet. These maps are, by design, made to waste the killer's time.
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Oh yeah because the map by default only has 1 god pallet (shack)
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The one by the window isn't a god pallet. You drop it and you only have 1 window way out that they have faster access to trapping you there till they break it or you mess up.
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I actually think that the pallet by the window would be alright to include in 1v4. While it would be a god pallet in the traditional sense, there's still counterplay due to the small distance between the pallet and the window. Pallet fakes could work on more inexperienced survivors, but also the forced medium vault during break animation and lack of ability to hold forward in any direction while the killer has to break it means that it won't be that good as a distance making tool. Ranged killers like Huntress and Trickster would be fine, but even Slinger should be able to hit over it, and again as it's so enclosed on one side Trapper and Hag can easily get hits by vaulting the window, while killers with a quicker pallet break (ie Demo Bubba and Billy) could reduce distance further. Yes, it's a strong pallet that can't be mindgamed, but the benefit from dropping it is nowhere near the benefit of a traditional God pallet, and it can help give more resources to a main building in desperate need of them without being that strong.
The other one, on the far left of the image, I am less of a fan of. Sure you can mindgame away some distance, but I prefer pallets that stand a chance to be played or, failing that, aren't that strong once dropped.
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The one closer to the window would probably be fine.
The other one I would be against adding.
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8 pallets and 2 vaults (plus shack vault and main building vaults)
You can't be serious if you think this is balanced
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Another ridiculous rng
Bottom of the map has 3 gens, only 2 vaults (cow tree and shack)https://streamable.com/m09nr2
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I think all Coldwind Farm maps should be reverted back to better iterations.
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I’d rather have the downstairs window buffed. The upper area feels already alright, but I would be fine with either one of them.
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Agreed, with the exception of Cowshed. That map can stay as is, just with old-school graphics.
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Maybe Cowshed can be adjusted separately from the others.
Because I don't think it is a good map the way it currently is, but considering it was very unbalanced in the past a full reversion probably wouldn't work either.
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We don't need more God Pallets in 1v4, some of the maps have enough of those already. We could arguably need more weak pallets to help chain loops, but we do not need more God or Strong pallets. Or god/strong windows for that matter.
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We dont need more god pallets…literally in a map with 0 god pallets
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It's a really, really badly designed tile, even the variations with no windows on the backside. The survivor can just wait inside, and reaction vault for free 3 times, not even having to use the pallet. If you try to push them the other way, where it's an actual 50/50 at the window, they push around to the back, which you can't mindgame either because they see you almost the whole way around, and then back to the same unfair window situation.
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You're assuming the killer has a trap power. That doesn't mean anything for all the others.
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We don't need extra God Pallets in the game, period. One or two per map is more than enough. And Thompson House has a Shack, that IS a God Pallet.
They have to consider the other half of the roster for which yes, a tile like that would be a massive issue. You cannot just design the tiles like every Killer is Nemesis, Xenomorph, Wesker, Legion, or Blight. You have to consider Killers that must play around tiles, too - EVERYONE has to play on these maps.
The Cowshed Maps are a bit too Killer-sided, I agree. Mostly, Thompson due to size and Rotten Fields due to complete absence of anything useful there. I think they can fix it by adding a COUPLE more filler, junk, or line of sight breaker tiles. No more strong vaults or pallets however; we had too many last time and it made the maps pretty abysmally Survivor-Sided. Really, I do think Rotten Fields could be retired, it won't ever be good, and I think we could make Thompson House a LITTLE larger. I also think maybe we do not need both Abattoir and Cowshed, they're both basically the same map anyway. Lose one or the other?
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Shack should not count since almost all maps have one, and the maps that don't have a killer shack definitely have several other god pallets, so at the end of the day Thompson House is probably the only map with 0 god pallets
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But Shack DOES count and IS a God Pallet. Saying "But that doesn't count because not all maps have a shack" is like saying "Well the easy 3Gen on the I-shaped maps should not count because not all maps have an easy 3gen." And besides, most maps have God or Strong pallets regardless of there being a shack or not; the point is moot because every map does in fact have at least one God Pallet, several strong pallets, a shack, or a pretty strong Main that creates a safe zone.
Besides that, what is even wrong with a map not having any God pallets? Do you really need a God Pallet, or can we make do with some strong Pallets and strong tiles instead? I really don't think every map even needs a God pallet, God window, or super strong Main, let alone ALL those in combination. BHVR has been trying to move away from that sort of design for good reason - because it's obscenely frustrating on Killer Side, especially for those who play M1s, to know there's some areas you just can't chase in because they are too safe for Survivor.
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The solution here is to make sure RNG can't screw over survivors so much anymore by increasing the minimum amount of pallets that can spawn on a map. Something quite a few maps in the game need desperately. Adding one god pallet in Thompson House won't do the trick.
RNG might be good for the game in a whole but it shouldn't affect the amount of pallets that can spawn so much.
I fail to see how Thompson House is more killer sided than Haddonfield though.
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Cowshed in my opinion is generally very well balanced now. The best coldwin farm map.
In general I don't think coldwin maps need to be reverted or redesigned, they just need their minimum amount of pallets increased noticeably, so that you don't end up with maps that have too little pallets.
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I don't think that would be enough, to be honest, because the tiles themselves are also extremely weak. Survivors need resources in order to survive, and the Old Coldwind realm used to provide said resources.
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I'm not saying the map needs a god pallet, I'm saying the maps needs more pallets. The main building is the weakest of all the maps, plus the rest of the map is a complete deadzone
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Haddonfield? The map that some people here are still asking for a survivor nerf?
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Some tiles are weak, but Coldwin maps definitely have tiles that are strong as well. The new tile they added just recently is a bit weak, but other than that they have quite a few tiles that are the same as those of other maps. And the Coldwin specific tiles range from weak to very strong.
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Never seen anyone that thinks that Haddonfield is still survivor sided, but I guess people like that still exist. That map in my eyes is pretty killer sided.
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Then the fix isn't making Main stronger, the fix is adding a few weaker fillers and making the map a little bigger. If the issue is that the map is a big deadzone, concentrating more and stronger pallets in the main doesn't solve the issue - it just makes an overly frustrating and stronger Main while the rest of the map is STILL a deadzone.
I've also lowkey NEVER seen anyone here or elsewhere ask for further Survivor nerfs to Haddonfield. The general consensus is it's a Killer-sided map for the most part now.
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I did a little search for 2 minutes and I found 2 comments of people mentioning Haddonfield as balanced or "not killer sided" from just a few months ago
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Two. Two people saying this. To… how many again saying it's not? Maybe you should also search that, just saying. You'd find a lot more than two people over the last few months calling Haddonfield Killer sided. Which it is.
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Ok they said it's balanced. That's not the same as arguing that it's survivor sided. Nevertheless, everyone has their own opinion in the end, but the vast majority seems to agree that Haddonfield is killer sided.
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