Revealed Status-Effect from 2v8 for core?
You know, this thing from 2v8 that tells the survivor: "hey, your aura is somehow being read right for x amount time":
It would be a huge help to solo queue players!
What are peoples opinions for or against this?
Greetz
Comments
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?
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It'd be a huge QoL change s the only way you know before was Distortion proc (before it was gutted and isn't good for leaning what aura reading they have now) or running OoO (and its downside of letting the killer know where you are every 30 seconds).
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On the one hand I'm sick and tired of killer perks announcing themselves to survivors. On the other I think that aura-reading perks are probably the only category of perk that should announce itself.
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It'd be a very neat perk, but I don't think it'd be appropriate for a basekit mechanic.
I actually made a post a while back about how I want this to be what Spine Chill does, so it's an option available to everyone at the start but still requires a perk slot.
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This is about as silly as suggesting that the killer see each survivors' exhaustion timer on the HUD.
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Exhaustion-status and Revealed-status are two completely different things though ..
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I'm not saying they're the same thing, I'm saying it would make the same amount of sense.
Some information is intentionally hidden from both sides. For example, survivors don't know they're exposed from Devour Hope until someone gets hit. Showing when a survivor's aura is being read to that survivor would completely destroy Scratched Mirror Meyers as well as severely reduce the viability of stealth killers, who depend on the element of surprise.
A huge part of skill expression in this game is knowing what perks exist, figuring out what perks the other side has, and then playing around them. This is a problem that can be solved with some situational awareness, not by adding more stuff to the HUD.
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It would be a huge help to solo queue players!
No, that's a basekit buff to all Survivors. Don't frame this as "helping solo queue" when it would buff both solos and SWFs equally.
I don't think this should be a thing, with enough game sense you can play around any aura reading perk without needing it to be announced to you.
Adding this kind of thing basekit would dumb down the game and nerf perks that absolutely have no reason to be nerfed. It would make some perks borderline useless.
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the killer perk are easily deductible through player experience. it is to the point where if you don't see a killer a perk immediately, it's aura perk and most of the aura perks tend to obvious because of player behaviour changes. perhaps hardest perks to detect on killer side are perks that highlight gens for killer such as Discordance, Surveillance or Gearhead as behaviour shift is not immediately obvious.
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This woould quite literally instantly kill all aura perks on the spot. Which I know is what survivors want but its still insane to me.
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This would be a huge shadow nerf for Distortion, completely killing the perk into oblivion. No
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Aura perks would not be killed - they are still providing the read though, unlike Distortion or someting which kills the read. Even if the survivor pays attention to the Revealed status-effect they cant disappear into thin air - you will still be able to wallhack them and know where they are
There are around 90 ways to read auras on the killer side - it is cool, let them do, just let the survivor know: "hey, via some kind of add-on or perk the killer is seeing you right now".
- Exposed status-effect is shown
- Hex status-effects are shown
- Revealed status-effect needs to join the club now.
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Not basekit, but it should be something on a generic perk, such as Spine Chill.
Alternatively, it could be something that's used sparing to balance some of the more effective aura perks. For example:
Weave Attunement: "Inflicts survivors with Revealed, revealing their aura"
Meanwhile things like killer powers and add ons can show auras without 'inflicting the Revealed status'.
Mirror Myers would be pretty dead if survivors always knew he was looking at them.
Post edited by Seraphor on3 -
Only on very limited amount of perks / powers / addons.
If implemented mindlessly, it will kill the fun in using aura perks to attack survivors that don't expect you to see them. Also another handholding mechanic that removes the "fog of war" effect in matches where player has to play around the possibility of the perk and observe the opponent's behaviour to determine the perks they use. It constitutes a part of the skill curve and trivializing it further is a bad decision.
It would make more sense to use it as killer instinct indicator when the killer's own power doesn't do a good job at telegraphing it and there's nothing to assume survivor isn't supposed to be aware of being revealed in the first place.
Singularity's infection spread, Xenomorph's killer instinct upon leaving tunnels, Nemi/Wesker's killer instinct while using a vaccine/spray, Unknown's killer instinct when survivor cancels dispel, Sadako's full condemn. Things that are NOT supposed to be ambiguous and unexpected, but still can be ignored by survivors merely because they require specific knowledge that they are in play in the first place.
We SHOULD NOT tell survivors if their aura / location is being revealed by perks like Im all ears; Gearhead; BBQ; Floods of rage, Darkness revealed, etc; that their location is revealed by killer instinct through powers like Legion's frenzy (bc of that one addon); Artist's crows (because the detection range is ambiguous enough to make survivor second guess their safety); Dredge's nightfall / addon kill instinct reveal (bc the range is ambiguous to be determined precisely).
Generally, a lot of things in this game are designed to work because your opponent doesn't know they are in play. Revealed status effect applied mindlessly (aka on just about any aura / kill instinct reveal) will stop a lot of things from working the way they should be and will be another step in trivializing and railroading the game into a chess match.
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?????? Distortion is nerfed already and is total garbage now its long been killed lol.
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Lol the way killers are quick to say no literally just confirms they cant do without crutch aura read . It aint like your aura reading is gonna be fully blocked and the survivor still will have to predict where to hide or killers is coming from and high mobile killer or teleport ones wont even be affected.
Also before anyone say woo crutch, I do not use it. Survivor aura reading cept woo and deja vu are so niche imo they may well be gone along with all killer aura read and add ons.
Post edited by buggybug on8 -
I'm kind of confused by survivors hating killer's aura reading abilities as much as they do. Survivors often say that the most enjoyable part of DBD is the chase. Looping, mindgames, cat and mouse, that sort of thing. Auras reading abilities help killers find survivors and that leads to the chase. Is that not what survivors want?
Plus, aura reading on stealth killers is pretty mush the only time that DBD, a horror game, feels scary. Why would anyone want to remove one of the few times a killer can literally scare a survivor player?
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Are there any restrictions for the killer to not just simply use these tools to tunnel and camp more effectively?
No, there aren't any. Whatsoever.
So instead of "hey, the killer can use these perks to spread pressure and chase multiple people per match! That also gives survivors a more well rounded game!"
We get this: "well, the killer knows where everyone is and is just standing 11m from the hook, and can also see exactly where to cut off the rescue attempt. And even once the rescue occurs, the killer can always find the unhooked survivor and tunnel them. That survivor can't escape without drastic measures against the aura reads".
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What perks are going to give them that information in that scenario, though?
When they first get the hook, sure, there's some there, but those perks won't show the killer how to cut off the rescue attempt if it happens more than a couple seconds after the hook.
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I don't think so. It's more appropriate in 2v8 because that mode is inherently more chaotic and fast-paced and it has a lot of aura reading to contribute towards that style. Most aura-reading in 2v8 is also basekit and doesn't come from specific abilities so the revealed status effect doesn't really give away anything the killer is using.
If this were applied to perks/addons in 1v4 it would make several of those perks/addons much weaker when they don't need to be. If an aura-reading perk or addon in 1v4 is so strong that it needs to warn survivors, then it should either have a debuff icon (like Weave does) or that specific perk/addon may be an issue. But there's no reason to give a blanket nerf to all aura reading when 90% of it is fine.
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Yes we want chase but it should be your task to properly find the survivors using eyes and ears not via perks, add ons like the good old days
Also aura reads perks and add ons are tunneling abilities. The it's to spread out hooks is flawed statement now as bbq no longer give bonus bp and this was because they reduce the amount of grinding for bp you have to do.
I always see killers who go back to the previous injured first hooked person after hooking another one via bbq or any aura read add on / perks tunneling them out.
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So, you want to be chased, but only under incredibly specific circumstances? You want to be able to be stealthy, but then get mad when the killer focuses on the one survivor they're able to find? You want killers to focus on the unhooker instead of the survivors that got unhooked, but conveniently left out that the unhooked survivors will, more often then not, bodyblock to protect the unhooker, and will then likely get mad when the killer just goes after the body blocker when this happens?
I'll be honest, this has "Survivor Rulebook for Killers" written all over it.8 -
So what did killers use to do before aura reading exists?
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Imo this should be applied to both sides. If your aura is being read and you know about it, it is still a massive advantage, people that don't want this likely just want to keep abusing aura for free chases and hits.
If you are facing a survivor with wallhacks via key or wiretap, now you will know, better for newer players and for experienced ones (a la key) you now have less instances of "was that a subtle cheater?"
meanwhile on the survivor side if your aura is being read you know about it and can try to play around it, but the killer still has the advantage as it should be. Now you don't have to constantly play around all the aura perks in all possible scenarios as well as add-ons, which is pseudo impossible especially with perks that require perfect knowledge of killer actions like gen kicks and locker searches.
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They ran Spies from the Shadows and Whispers, mainly.
Tracking perks have been in the game since the start.
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Considering the purpose of aura perks is to gain information about the location of survivors, this wouldn't kill any of them.
What this would kill is survivors giving the killer free hits/downs because they are not aware of their aura being read while stealthing or rotating. If this change happened, you would still know where the survivor is. You would still be able to use these perks to basically have perfect gamesense. All that changes is your opponents are more aware.
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I don't think help for soloQ should be simply a nerf to killers.
This doesn't affect just soloQ, you are trying to use soloQ only as an excuse for this.
There are several other options to do that wouldn't change killers, or SWF much. This is definetly not one of them.3 -
Every buff to solo queue is technically a nerf to killer. Also, if 2v8 is anything to go by, you will still see plenty of survivors oblivious to the fact that their aura is being read despite being told. Killers would be fine.
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The revealed status-effect is just a little help. The description of 2v8 explains when your aura is revealed - there is nothing more that could reveal your aura. So in theory the status-effect is not necessary because you know when the aura reveal happens but the developers added it because it is helpful in a rather chaotic mode. We don't need this in the main mode because this is less chaotic and with a bit of game sense and skill you can tell when a killer has an aura reading perk or not based on their behave. It is also not a help for SoloQ, so pls stop abusing the status of soloq for your own problems with gameplay elements.
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Every buff to solo queue is technically a nerf to killer
not really, there are things to do that would make gameplay for soloQ better without changing killer's POV much.
This change would definetly affect killer's gameplay. You dedinetly would notice survivors prerunning whenever you see their aura…You can show survivor's perks, implement some sort of chat wheel/ping system etc. Those are things, which are useless to SWF (they already have this information) and gameplay wouldn't change at all for killers.
This change would help SWF (more than soloQ) and would make killer's gameplay worse. I simply don't think there is need for anything with such an outcome.2 -
showing survivor perks, implementing pings, etc all improve the quality of play at solo level. Which is still technically a nerf to killers. A majority of matches are against solos, full SWF is rare as shown by the data, so you would be nerfing killers as survivors across the board get new tools and their play will improve.
Also, one person on the team running distortion already allows SWF to know what aura reading the killer has and comm it. I don't think it would make killer's gameplay worse in an undeserved way either. If you spawn in with lethal, you won't get survivors running into you cluelessly or hopping into a locker anymore, but you still get full information off their spawn. NTH still full counters stealthing near gens. I'm All Ears still gives you wallhacks in chase, etc etc. I think more than just "this will make gameplay harder for X side" we should consider why before deciding if it should be changed or not.
If it makes the game harder for killers because survivors won't make the worst possible decisions, imo that is not a reason to not make the change. And the benefits for solo imo outweigh having to worry about taking Ls to situations where you cannot reasonably expect the survivor/killer to see your aura.
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Let's use BBQ as an example. Since my point isn't about quantity, but about how these perks are being used or even intended.
For myself, I run BBQ and hook a survivor. It shows me the auras of survivors farther away, and I know generally where to go to interrupt them on gens to keep map pressure rolling. Especially if I see 2 people working on a gen I know I can apply the most pressure by going that direction to say hello.
This is what I feel the perk was intended for, and was largely used for in the past (pre-6.1). This is also what I suspect the person I replied to means by "what survivors wanted" since everyone gets to share in the chase/pressure, and has a generally more well balanced game (some chase, some gens, some recovery, and tangible BP gains), while the killer is actually applying pressure.
But let's take the same scenario for another player, like how people claim to play killer on the forums: they hook, see two people on a gen with BBQ. Instead, they decide "that gen is gone, I'm staying here" and camp the hook at 11m. Inevitably, or eventually, the survivors do finish that gen since there's no pressure, and the killer knows exactly where they are coming from. In most cases that will be the direction they approach the hook, so the killer waits to interrupt them there. This is effectively equivalent to "holding a corner" in a shooter game.
And once the unhook actually happens, since the killer has applied no pressure, they also tend to decide to tunnel the unhooked survivor, side "gens fly" (and the killer has done nothing to stop them).
Now, the perk or aura read of BBQ isn't problematic, the perk itself is fine. But the mindset and how it can be used is the issue, which is my point to the person I replied to.
Although this assessment varies perk to perk and the use cases.
You also have the added problem of "mind gaming during chase" that they specifically mention is mostly deleted or nearly impossible in some cases by using something like new zanshin or weave attunement, and predator is literally a killer second chance perk. So survivors actually doing well or "winning" a chase can be completely impossible, or undone by these effects.
So someone saying "survivors should be happy" about these aura reads is missing the mark entirely. These perks aren't incentivizing the kind of gameplay he's portraying them to, at least they don't require it. Not that people can't use them for healthy play, but people won't if there's no downside either.
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Which is still technically a nerf to killers.
It can be nerf to kill rates, but gameplay is not changing at all. My changes wouldn't create anything worse than it's already possible. Revealing aura info is massive nerf to any aura reveal perk.
Also, one person on the team running distortion already allows SWF to know what aura reading the killer has and comm it
but hey have to use the perk… So change is still buff for a SWF.
Aura reveal is better than screaming because survivors don't know about it. If you tell survivors, value of aura reveal is so much worse for most killers. What's the point of me knowing their location, when they start running as soon they get in my TR?
Doesn't make sense to nerf Distortion, just to few patches later nerf all aura reveal perks/addons with basekit change…
By soloQ and killers, I would take my changes any day over this.
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I can sort of see the argument you're making here, but it's not as though BBQ is actually either incentivising or improving your camping there. At best it might cause the killer to make the decision, but after they make the decision, BBQ does nothing but offer a very vague direction they're probably coming from, maybe, depending on the map layout.
It doesn't tell the killer when the rescuer is coming, it doesn't tell the killer how many are coming, it doesn't allow the killer to ambush someone rounding a corner or crouching behind a loop, it doesn't even tell the killer where everyone is so who knows, maybe the last survivor is the one coming for the save.
The tunnelling point is irrelevant here, since that's literally unaffected by BBQ or pretty much any other aura read in this scenario.
Even at most, the worst thing you can say is that aura reads fail to persuade the killer not to camp, if they're inclined to do it anyway they're gonna do it. You could just as easily make the argument that a killer who doesn't have any way of seeing survivors after a hook will just sit there to try and interrupt someone going for the save because they're not secure in their ability to find someone- if a player is inclined to take the cheap cheese strategy, they are equally likely to treat any given situation as incentive to do it. The only worthwhile situation is to weaken that cheese strategy, rather than attack the things those players are incidentally also using while doing it.
Since aura reading doesn't empower camping and improve its effectiveness in any real way, it's not really a relevant factor when discussing that issue. Same for tunnelling, albeit with a few slightly greyer areas.
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Thats a big buff for survivors and a bigger buff for grouped survivors, No thanks
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While it would be nice for survivors, we'd say it shouldn't be a basekit thing. Maybe a perk, but not basekit. Survivors need to be on their toes and this seems a bit much like too hand holding to us.
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It 100% kills them. They could easily figure out every single perk you have and counter them with lockers. BBQ and Chili would be completely dead and most likely drop to a 0% pick rate. Killer just picked up a survivor? Just hide in a locker for 5 seconds now that we know they have BBQ for free, no skill needed here!
Post edited by SuspiciousBrownie on2 -
Nah it definitely completely kills them. Survivors can use the information to actually trick killers by pretending to head one way and then when the aura read ends they double back. No more cross maps as Huntress either those would be entirely gone essentially because people would just sit behind a wall until the aura reveal was over.
They def do NOT need to join the club.
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You're correct. I ran distortion for its information, not for its aura reading protection. The information of knowing what the killer is running is that valuable. I'd run distortion even if the aura read blocks where removed entirely but still had the 3 tokens. Knowing when to evade is incredibly strong. With old distortion, you'd immediately know if lethal pursuer was in play, would know if nurses calling is in play and when to run early in a heal, when it's not safe to stay near a gen getting kicked, when mindgaming is impossible after a vault, and so on.
That being basekit would be incredibly broken.
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Aura perks are probably the worst possible perks for camping. It would be much better to use slowdown like corrupt or deadlock or forced hesitation.
We do NOT need to punish 95% of players because 5% tunnel and camp.
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They lost a lot. A LOT. VERY VERY BADLY. It’s no secret this game was BRUTALLY survivor sided for the longest time. Literally a survivors paradise for the first 6 years or more. They couldn’t even kick gens for a while.
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the worst thing you can say is that aura reads fail to persuade the killer not to camp
Yes this is almost exactly what I said in my original post. There's nothing preventing people from using these auras in camping and tunneling situations also.
I think the only perk I can think of that does would be grim embrace, because the obsession aura only shows after all 4 survivors are hooked. The aura read is gated behind the requirement of spreading hooks. But the aura read is honestly not why people run grim either.
I may be forgetting one, but none of the other aura perks or add-ons have a similar requirement. And the BBQ incentive to spread hooks was removed.
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Right, but when they're used in camping and tunnelling scenarios, they aren't actually doing anything, so it's not really relevant to bring them up in that context.
They don't make camping any stronger, which was the original claim, they just don't really affect things either way.
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Yes, I was also thinking the same thing. Killer also be notified just as the survivor for it to be fair.
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Thats not a bad idea either.
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I do think the amount of aura reading in the game is absurd at this point and it is going to be really difficult for new players to understand when and why a killer can see their aura.
Hell I am a pretty experienced player and I cant keep track of the perks and addons that reveal me anymore
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This is a needed change, especially with Distortion and the stealth playstyle being nerfed into the ground. Some aura reading perks like Nowhere to Hide have unlimited use with very little requirement to trigger, while Distortion can only be reused if you manage to escape a chase which is one of the toughest things in the game to do against decent killers. A fair compensation for nuking Distortion would be to notify survivors when they are revealed so that they can react accordingly.
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2v8, while being a boring experience after a while, does bring up some good ideas.
This icon and effect is one of them.
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Agreed. 2v8 once in a while as a special mode for a limited time would be just right.
Revealed status effect definitely!
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It would be one of the biggest buffs ever to survivors. No thanks.
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