Another survivor perk nerfed to the ground. Thanks killer mains!
Why are survivors just not allowed to have strong perks anymore? This is actually ridiculous that killer mains have such control over the community that that they can get shoulder the burden, an anti tunnel perk with 2 SIGNIFICANT DOWNSIDES, nerfed before it even hits live servers.
Can’t say I’m surprised though, we all saw this happen so many times before. DS, dead hard, MFT, ADRENALINE! (seriously why did ADRENALINE need a nerf????) Why even buy the new survivors when their perks are so bad?
Comments
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Not that I agree with the change Shoulder The Burden got either, but it's extremely dramatic to claim that survivors don't get strong perks because of it, imo.
The most recent releases have all had at least one genuinely strong perk, except for the DnD chapter. That one's an outlier, those perks were only okay.
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Well, there goes the only reason I had to buy this chapter.
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The killer perks are still decent. Im suprised the lunge one didnt get touched at all, considering that it often straight up outshines coup.
The healing perk is gonna be the 4th infinity stone for doctor players. *shiver*
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Not strong enough, in my opinion. And none of them have any synergy whatsoever with my usual builds.
Yeah, I'm skipping this chapter. I was expecting a buff for Shoulder the Burden, actually.
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I gave up on new perks. It seems to me like the devs don’t want to introduce new strong perks for survivors (and killers). The best we can get are okayish perks.
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This.
It seems to me that the idea nowadays is to make every survivor perk equally mediocre, so you can run whatever you choose to run and not feel the difference.
And I really don't like it.
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I think they moved from the mostly killer sided forums to the completely killer sided Reddit for feedback.
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I think this is being overblown a tad.
They changed the perk because they thought it was too strong. In fact, I barely saw any killer mains complain about it. Even I thought it was a good perk to counter tunneling with the only real concern being the ability to really spread hook counts when you need pressure, but that's not really here nor there to me the way I play.
They'll probably adjust it down the line if 60 seconds is too long.7 -
Then you missed the forums for the week it was announced. We had what 10 threads about it from killer mains complaining about it thinking it added and didn't transfer hook states.
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Shattered compass is literally the definition of synergy. Making more scourge hooks will buff every scourge hook perk.
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Must have missed it then.
Regardless, I don't really see an issue either way.0 -
If you use them, that is.
I usually don't. Except for Pain Res, but I am not using Pain Res all the time.
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The Lunge-Perk is veeery specific. Coup the Grace is just better overall IMO.
But I agree with the Healing-Perk. I dont think it is very strong, but it is one of the Perks a Doctor-Player can run to make Survivors go next as fast as possible.
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"Dev Note: we felt the Exposed time on the perk was too short for how strong the perk can be for trading hook states with another player. We wanted to ensure that the risk / reward factor was more balanced."
The survivor who uses the perk goes from unhooked, straight to the struggle phase. That's the balance. BHVR acts like it's a free escape after. Either the killer isn't proxy camping, in which case the perk is completely pointless, or they are proxy camping and they get a free down.
I have a better idea:
Remove the scream and the exposed, and just make it so the perk doesn't activate after the killer has hooked three out of the four survivors. That way it works great against killers who hard tunnel baby survivors out and proxy camp the hook, and does nothing against killers that don't. At least that way the perk is actually useful.
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The perk was bad even before the nerf. The amount of coordination that would be required to make this perk worthwhile is too much for a pub lobby.
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It don’t like too my friend
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What are those "genuinely strong" perks
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Trevor: Eyes of Belmont. This is the weakest perk on this little list, but I still think its base effect and the synergies it has leave it being genuinely good overall.
Lara: Finesse unambiguously, that's obviously a strong perk. I would argue Hardened is underrated too, but to be fair, I did say "genuinely strong" so it may not reach that specific bar.
Sable: Strength in Shadows is the best source of self healing by a wide margin, it's crazy good. Wicked is also very good, but primarily as a means of evading the killer and stopping yourself from being opportunistically tunnelled. The basement-Deliverance effect has high potential, but isn't reliable, that's not why the perk is strong.
Alan: Champion of Light. I feel like his other two perks being so undertuned left people glossing over this one? But seriously, it's a damn good chase perk.
Ellen: Light-Footed and Chemical Trap. Both have an asterisk, but neither asterisk is about their strength- just that Light-Footed can be kind of hard to tell how much it's doing in the moment, and Chemical Trap needs careful decision making about where and when to use it. Both are still very good perks.
Nic Cage: Dramaturgy is a solid chase perk that has some slight RNG elements that could either make it better or riskier, and Plot Twist is a strong and versatile perk.
Gabriel: Obviously he released with Made For This, but Troubleshooter has been a genuinely good perk since release too.
I think cutting things off there is appropriate for "recent", that's back to well over a year ago. Minus the DnD characters and maybe Trevor based on your personal line for "strong", all of those characters have good choices.
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Not even doctor can make the healing perk work effectively, because it requires medkits or self healing perks. Even when someone has a medkit it will only work once.
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its funny how people on both sides are crying a river over pretty insignificant nerfs to a secondary effect of a perk whose main effect is still very much powerful and gamechanging.
having a literal deja vu with pain res nerf here.
all this nerf would do is make it so the unhooking survivor has slightly bigger chances to trade instead of getting a free unhook. run DS, actually respect the killer's presence for those 40s, play safe and dont use the transfer if you have a stage on you already and you'll be fine.
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Do what you think is best for you. I personally am not a real doggo - enthusiast, so im zero percent interested in the killer. Im also more leaning towards playing survivor right now and as you said, thats not really a big factor this time. Probably gonna wait as well for now.
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Pick rate after the initial hype will speak for itself. If it's the game changing perk killers think it is then it will be used by everyone. If not then it will be just another dead perk. I don't think anyone in the average match will bring it after realizing it immediately puts them on death hook. Killers who tunnel also proxy camp and the average player is just gonna go down immediately after the exposed triggers. It might see limited long term use in SWFs but they didn't really need help against tunneling to begin with.
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I dont understand why they just push that perk live. I close my eyes and see doctors sending themselves to gideon with this perk and the most nasty other 3 perks that they can think of.
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Eyes of Belmont's primary effect is a worse version of old Dark Sense, a perk so middling it got reworked a while back.
Finesse, ok, I can agree with that
Strength in Shadows only seems good because the raw self-heal speed is better than most other sources of self-heal, because self-heal is garbo rn. IMO "good for a self heal perk" isn't the same thing as "good"
Champion of Light is decent I guess, but it did feel weird to have Shadowborn reworked into a perk that counteracted the CoL at the same time. This speaks to the frustration OP had - why does the solid survivor perk have to drop alongside a perk that neutralizes it? It makes it feel like survivors aren't allowed to have nice things.
Lightfooted is alright, but I can't agree that removing only one of half a dozen positional indicators for survivor reaches "great" status. Chem trap is solid if you get into a scenario where the killer has to break a god pallet, but I think calling it "great" is an overestimate of how reliable it is to get the chance to use effectively.
Dramaturgy, also I think fair to say it's good.
Troubleshooter imo doesn't do anything that isn't also accomplished by bringing bond + using proper camera angles in chase, as you can generally tell who's working on what gen with bond & killer movement a few seconds after a pallet drop is generally quite predictable, so imo it's middling rather than "good"
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Eyes of Belmont also has a secondary effect, which elevates it above old Dark Sense. Like I said, it's the weakest on this list, but it opens up some genuinely useful synergies and builds. There's a middle ground between "genuinely strong" and "worthless", and at minimum, that's where Eyes of Belmont is. It's a good, useful, reliable perk.
Strength in Shadows, your take rests on the idea that self healing is bad right now, which it's not. It's not overpowered like it used to be, but medkits are solidly useful and Inner Strength is equally a very solid perk. Strength in Shadows is considerably better than both. It's a damn good perk.
For Champion of Light, I think that's a very restrictive and odd way of looking at things. Sure, this perk has one specific perk that counteracts it (plus Lightborn partially counteracting it), but what are the chances the killer you're facing actually has it? I run CoL myself and I can confidently say I haven't seen Shadowborn once. That leaves it just a damn good perk in realistic matches.
Light-Footed removes the most important indicator in a lot of scenarios, which is why it's genuinely a great perk. Hard to know you're getting value, to be sure, but the value that's on the table is really useful. For Chemical Trap, it doesn't have to be a god pallet, just a safe one. Any pallet in the entire game that you can play while it's dropped is a viable spot for Chemical Trap, and using it leaves the killer in a lose/lose where they have to either waste time building Bloodlust or waste time catching back up with a Hindered slow.
Troubleshooter has the benefit of having multiple effects in one, and without the range restriction of Bond. It's on the weaker end of this list but it's unambiguously a good perk, more information is better than less information- and even if it's the same information, "as good as another very good perk" doesn't make it bad.
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and then doctor ends up with survivors, that don't self heal AT ALL, and the perk does nothing
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Damn.
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This is funny cause most Killer mains weren't complaining about this like even I wanted the exposed removed cause even without it I was just gonna go for the unhooker.
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Oh no 40 seconds of exposed… would be a shame if i just sprint bursted/lithed across the map if the killer tried to capitalized on it. Its already good if you're good at looping but now the 40 seconds of exposed is an actual risk now because who isn't pairing this with a lithe or sprint burst to run across the map? Also DH, adrenaline and MFT were FAR from nerfed into the ground.
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Still think it's a top 10 perk tbh.
It's like unbreakable where some games it won't come into play but other games it'll turn a 4k into a 4 man out.
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This perk will still be really strong in a SWF team
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Im the opposite and much prefer it this way since it makes more build varieties and things much more exciting.
Id much rather be surprised by a MoM proc or get bamboozled by Deception or Diversion than seeing some one DS me "unexpectedly" or take off with Sprint Burst.
That being said Shoulder the Burden is still very likely going to be meta, but we'll just have to wait and see
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I think you're being a bit extreme here. Shoulder the Burden is a game-changing perk when used correctly. It’s one of the best perks to come from this chapter, and there’s a reason the Exposed status was buffed—it’s incredibly strong when you think about the possibilities. Once you consider how it works, you realize just how impactful it can be.
The beauty of Shoulder the Burden is that your team gets to choose who holds the "burden." Pair it with Dead Hard or DS for added safety. It’s great for your best loopers and can be combined with perks like Boil Over for even more disruption. You can see how it creates strong synergies. It’s a very powerful perk.
Imagine the potential: A team brings two strong loopers with perks focused on evading the killer, while the other two survivors focus on quick gens. Shoulder the Burden "trades" hook stages from the weak gen-rushers to the loopers who are well-equipped to survive and waste the killer’s time. It’s a fantastic perk that offers a lot of strategic depth.
I do have one question, though: What happens if the killer is running Make Your Choice? What happens to the unhooking survivor in that case?
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Personally think the perk is gonna be plenty strong, just requires you to have to use your brain rather than being an unhook happy goof like most of SoloQ is.
We've all see those cracked survivors who are untouchable, that the killer drops chase repeatedly to not waste their time with them. Survivors who are actually good get real carry potential with this perk by forcing the killer to have to deal with them.
A build off top of my head for it:
- Shoulder the Burden
- Vigil
- Off the Record/Sprint Burst
- Camaraderie/Reassurance
Plenty of options to make the perk perfectly solid for absolutely thwarting a killers tunneling and camping plans. Just because a perk is not unga bunga foolproof to the point any idiot can slap in on any build and get value out of it, doesn't mean it's not still strong for players who use it at the right time.
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I don't think this should be blamed on killer mains but I do agree that nerfing this perk was not the smartest decision.
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It is what it is, but yes, I don't think many will run it now. The nerf guarantees it won't be seen in solo queue. Babysitter comes with no downsides and yet you rarely see it. People aren't sticking their neck out that far for randoms lol the knee-jerk reactions to new survivor perks happens like clockwork and it's disappointing the devs rarely take a "wait and see" approach the way they do to almost all killer perks
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It's not Erie of crows.
It's Gideon meat plant. You HEAL against a good doctor on that map.
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What perks do you think were strong from trevor, sable, alan, ellen, or nic? because not a single one of those survivors has a perk that is meta or even considered top half of perks in my book. Like I love some of the perks from these survs, especially nic, but I cant make a fair argument that any of these perks are strong.
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No offense but these forums here have stopped being killer sided quite a while ago. I see equally amount of killer biased and survivor biased people on these forums nowadays.
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In my opinion they should have gone the other direction, buffing this perk by removing the exposed effect. I don't see how this perk is going to be useful in 95% of matches.
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Medkits are quite popular. In general, as I said, it is not a strong Perk. But not a healthy one either. You will never see this Perk in a regular Build, but you will see it if someone wants to be annoying.
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I am not surprised at all. Survivor is always analyzed with a microscope and if it seems inconvenient at all for killers then it gets nerfed.
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This is patently false.
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Survivors don't need any perks to loop killers, I've seen loads of survivors go into a match with nothing and just run circles around the killer especially an M1 killer. But the reason survivor perks gets nerfed isn't due to the killers complaining about it it's due to the swf taking advantage making a strong perk an incredibly OP perk. Fact is perks are stronger in a swf so if they are strong in solo then it makes them too strong in swf. Blame the swf not the killers lol
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Because the last time Survs got a really strong perk it was MFT, and we all know how badly that impacted the meta.
Sorry, it's nothing personal. But due to how the game is and due to it being a 1 versus 4, you simply can't be giving the 4 too many perks that have strong impact on the 1, it creates extreme unbalance and breaks the game. We saw this with original OoO, original DS, original DH, and original MFT.
Killers get overly strong or bad powers nerfed. Look at Skurchent. But SURVIVORS, who have no powers, get their perks nerfed. Because that's just kinda how you balance this game. The 4 have GOT to have weaker things than the 1, otherwise the 4 overpower the 1 if they build just right.5 -
It was already meh perk for solos.
Even with nerf, the perk is gonna be SWF perks like CoH, Camaraderie, Babysitter and others anyway.1 -
Introducing "strong" perks for survivors is a dangerous game. Because you run the risk of all four survivors running a "strong" game changing perk, which can have extremely negative implications for gameplay. Original Mettle of Men, Original Circle of Healing and Original Made For This are perfect examples of this
Survivors perks HAVE to be designed around the fact that four of them might be brought into a single game
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I disagree that Eye of Belmont's secondary effect is actually all that great, asit only applies to perks that don't really benefit all that much from extra duration.
I should clarify what I mean about Champion of Light because I admittedly messed up describing it the first time: I do think it is a solid perk, but because of the timing on reworked Shadowborn, I can see why someone would feel the message from the developers was "anything survivors get, killers will get something that directly counteracts it, so don't get too cocky." I agree that it's good, I just wanted to explain the baggage some survivors would have around it with regards the claim "survivors can't just have a good perk"
Other than that I think we've already explained our differences of opinion so I guess we'll just need to agree to disagree
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I don't know why it needs a secondary effect. Sacrificing a Hook State should be enough. Jusy another Survivor Perk with too many restrictions to get low value.
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I have a post about it further up, but to reiterate:
Trevor has Eyes of Belmont, but I do acknowledge that's the weakest on this list. Depending on your personal line for a strong perk, I could see someone reasonably considering Trevor an exception here as his best perk could be fairly seen as just "decent" rather than "strong".
Strength in Shadows is a top tier healing tool and a very strong perk. Wicked is also very strong, it gives very valuable information and has a potentially game-swinging secondary effect, though that secondary effect isn't reliable enough to be the reason to bring the perk in my opinion. Sable's actually the strongest overall here because two of her perks are just flat out strong with no caveats.
Alan has Champion of Light, a strong chase perk. I don't personally run every perk on this list, but I do run Sable's perks and Champion of Light a fair amount of the time, in different builds. They're just strong, no two ways about it.
Ellen has Light-Footed and Chemical Trap. Both of these perks have an asterisk - it's hard to know when Light-Footed is working for you and Chemical Trap requires a bit of game knowledge to use well - but neither of those asterisks directly affect their strength. Light-Footed is great for fooling the killer in loops that break line of sight and for running up to get a flashlight save, among other things, and Chemical Trap can put the killer in a lose/lose scenario on any tile where a dropped pallet can be played around.
Nic Cage has Dramaturgy, a strong chase perk which does admittedly have some slight risk attached from the RNG, and Plot Twist, a versatile healing tool. People kinda assumed that because Cage's perks were goofy, that means they're just meme perks, but even Scene Partner is in that "decent" camp I mentioned up above, his perks really aren't bad.
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