Revert Thrill of the Hunt as soon as you can
Comments
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Look at how many qualifiers you need to put in.
-Can't play sweaty
-Can't bring full aura
-Can't bring full gen slow down
-Cant play a top tier killer
-Go on a streak
It's fine to say the game should be horror themed and the killer stronger. Great, let's just be honest about killer having the easier side and then we can discuss how much easier it should be. Like if I took all of the above handicaps and only killed 55% of survivors that would somehow prove what?
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“Killers came up with a strategy to kill, nerf it to the ground, is toxic”
Now they will nerf every hex perk in the game, further buff shoulder the burden somehow, add a buff after cleansing a totem, nerf every killer that is not nurse, billy or blight.
Killers are not supposed to kill, they are here for survivors entertainment only.
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There are similar qualifiers for Survivor teams in comp, crogers.
Many. Similar. Qualifiers.
Your point. What is it?
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Well, you do have a very valid point.
Personally, I think they would need to revert the change to Thrill, or introduce a general survivor perk that has totem cleansing in mind.1 -
Counterplay to Off The Record - simply hit the survivor off of the hook to delete Off The Record off of the newly unhooked survivor or hit the survivor unhooking the survivor with Off The Record.
Counterplay to Shoulder The Burden - the survivor that normally does it typically will unhook the survivor — they literally scream and become exposed, which I believe Otzdarva came up with said perk and didn't have the proposed downsides that Behavior slapped onto the perk anyways. The only way that I could see this perk being problematic is in a coordinated SWF team where one person takes the burden and another unhooks said survivor allowing the trade to be more easier and seamless... something that you will not come across in many of your games as most people normally play solo-queue anyways.
The perk has too many downsides, as least for me personally to fit into my build so I don't see any problems with it. The only people I see complaining about said perk are people who easily want to tunnel off rip causing a 3v1 early into the game.
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Still getting needless angry bait posts from people mad I pointed out the perk's counters should be buffed instead of nerfing a perk that actually makes hexes viable.
Please don't respond to my posts again. You will not change my mind. The perk probably does need a slight reduction but it having synergy with hexes is fine, intended gameplay.
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This post is emblematic of the broader forum discourse: perks or strategies that challenge survivors' accustomed playstyles are labeled "oppressive" or "unfun," often without evaluating the tools survivors already possess to counter these changes.
If anyone believes Hex builds are truly oppressive, I encourage them to consider the current state of the game's killers and their nerfed tools. Survivors must adapt strategies instead of demanding constant balance shifts. The strength of these builds lies not in their power but in survivors' unwillingness to address them logically and efficiently.
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Also, Hens I believe has thousands of hours and streams(?)/does active content on YouTube for the game as its pretty much his livelihood.
With that being said, of course he will have a higher percentage of escaping with solo-queue than the average player does. People who play this game and load into a lobby, more often than not are casual players unless you get into the higher MMR calibers where people start running meta builds or builds that efficiently progress the game forward.
The people you see complaining about their teammates not touching a generator, urban evading everywhere, or whatever other stereotypical thing that people get mad over when spectating is the casual base in which these stats are taken from.
Hens and his experiment of solo-queue escapes are much different than the average player, as most people play quite altruistic in regular games whether playing solo or with friends.
When a person, such as Hens makes it a goal to escape as many games as possible with whatever build he chose (I didn't watch it) /=/ the regular casual playerbase that plays only a selected amount of hours per week.
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The perk probably does need a slight reduction
This is literally the point we are all making. The fact it has synergy with hexes is fine, the problem is solely that the numbers are too high right now
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Killers have to intentionally handicap themselves to make the game difficult. Before we even get to talking about what survivor handicaps should exist, we are presuming they've already jumped through a number of hoops many players never will (4 person SWF that has played and trained together).
What's your point?
And comp is a totally different thing: survivors know the killer they are going to face and the win conditions are entirely different.
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They literally nerfed shoulder the burden before hitting live servers cause of crying killer mains flooding this forum… you need a reality check asap
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The counterplay to Off the Record feels like: Pop Goes the Weasel now does 50% gen regression - Just repair the gen.
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Are we complaining about a hex now? Great lol. With Thrill + a hex that's literally half of a killer loadout. What more do you lot want - literally just run a totem perk if you're so concerned. Or ignore them. Not sure what we want killers to do now? Full gen slowdown is apparently a no no, now hexes are a big no no. Should they go perkless?
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Counterforce: 😐
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It's funny how the survivors shouted that genrush is the norm because the survivors simply have no other objective, but as soon as the killer spends 2+ of his perks to gives the survivors an additional objective, "this is op and needs to be destroyed, and no we will not take 1 perk that completely counters this"
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What "Counterforce"?
Take a piece of paper and please share with us your calculations: how long would it take to cleanse 1,2,3 and 4 totems, because I'm sure you don't even know what are you talking about, thx
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It's funny how after survivors were complaining about killers using 4 aura perks and the distortion nerf despite nothing changing for aura reading it's now hex perks that are a problem.
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You may have missed that there was some small minor change in one of the hexes in recent patch.
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I don't think it's bad for hexes to be meta but new thrill with buffed dominance and undying is kinda rough lol. It kinda flips the script and puts the survivors on a time limit instead of the killer because unless you're bad at chases or camping you should get at least 1 mori every game with it. I'd put Thrill to 12% first and see how that is otherwise a revert might be reasonable actually with how much bone defense we have now.
EDIT: Meant to mention devour would always be the 4th perk lol.
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Because this is dbd.
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LOGIC!
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your post has nothing to do with what i am talking about. he claims that the stat is the best you can do. If i provide counter-arguement of someone doing better than what stat says than his claim that it is cieling is wrong. I am also certain that 4 man swf could easily provide a counter-arguement of say 30 games that is higher then 50% escape rate. I'd wager you can get like 60% escape-rate in swf by everyone randomize perks in like first try.
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50% is 2% above of top MMR 4man SWF survive rate, and 8% above all MMR level 4 man SWF survive rates. As per the stats BHVR put out and said are the same over the year.
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That's missing the point of the complaints though. Nothing in a PVP game should be so strong that it essentially reduces the match to a game of Uno. You either have the counterpick perk or you don't. That's simply bad game design in this context. It reduces the game to guessing at perk counterpicks. The actual gameplay becomes secondary.
Beyond that, long totem cleanse times aren't healthy from a mechanical perspective. These aren't gens. The progress resets if you're interrupted. You either cleanse the full totem or you've made zero progress.
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Why are you so focused on a SWF escape rate when most pub games are centered on solo-queue and duo queued people lol?
Even with that said, a 4 man SWF marginally does better than a solo-queue player with a 3% increase, wow.
The point of my post was to explain that a highly competitive person like Hens and Otzdarva is not the norm of a regular player base like Dead By Daylight and you using Hens stats to explain that regular players should be playing much better "because Hens can do it, why can't others?" as an argument ignores the fact that he has 10k hours in the game. I wonder how many people posting in this forum at this moment has 10k plus hours, yet you use him as a baseline and focus on SWF - which has a 43% escape rate.
Your last point that a SWF can win easily with randomized perks is just flat out random to add, lmao. I would like to see videos of you on your little escape streak to indicate your high level of survivor gameplay and maybe not be as rude for a change. 😊 It gets exhausting when people point to famous Youtubers to imply survivors should do better, where is the same energy for killers when they have a higher win percentage or an increased level of getting a win streak going?
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Do people forget Counterforce is a perk that belongs to Jill? Saying "run Counterforce to combat this build!" is essentially saying pay to have a chance to win.
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and they want hatched removed too💀
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Yes, even with many of my games of getting Pain Resonance and Pop Goes The Weasel, once you know what the killer has - it's very easy to work around it.
Letting go of the generator when a person gets downed to prevent further regression of the gen.
PGTW is easy to counteract as the killer can only pop one gen at a time unless a snowball is in effect. There's a lot of counterplay in this game, yet people act like there's genuinely no counterplay.
My other post of allowing other survivors to see each other's builds would help in situations such as the Thrill Of The Hunt buff, as it would allow survivors to see if someone actually brings Counterforce, which undoubtedly will increase in pick rate once the Hex builds become more prominent - similar to when the slugging Singularity builds came and people started bringing Unbreakable.
People are just so used to playing one certain way without needing to adapt to things in the game and that's an issue in and of itself.
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“Killers are not supposed to kill, they are here for survivors entertainment only.”
Only killer mains with victim complex’s think that
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Huh. And do you lie to yourself often?
And I agree with this. The numbers are too high by a little bit, but my fear is all the fearmongering over how "OMG BUSTED OP!" this is now will get hexes nerfed to near uselessness again. We just got them back, I want to be able to experiment with hex builds without them being cleansed in five seconds, I want MORE perks to be viable not less. But I agree if it's affecting things this bad, it does need a slight reduction, and that's probably something that will be fixed in a hotfix later.
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they want to remove all killer perks, prolly addons too
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you don't know what counterforce is? the only perk in the game that actually hard counters totens? the Jill perk? I dislike new TofTH but you asked for a perk that counters it, and I mentioned a perk that counters it…
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All I'm hearing is buff counterforce
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Huh. And do you lie to yourself often?
It's literally your scenario.
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That's what killers have to do with lightborn... Use a perk to counter survivors but there is no guarantee that it ever gets used in the match if people don't have flash bangs or don't pick up flashlight. So ye use anti totem perk and hope you get a use out of it
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Technically killers can avoid blinds without lightborn and lightborn doesn’t prevent the deafening from flashbang; just the blinding (possibly the stun? Not sure if that’s linked to the blinding or the deafening)… that can also be avoided without actually using lightborn.
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Not really, the second a killer hits a pallet there is no way to avoid being blinded due to the animation of kicking pallet. In open maps it's much more difficult to avoid it as there are no walls to face. When going for the pick up it's unavoidable too unless the killer doesn't go for pick ups and slugs
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I thought you meant going for a pick up. In that case you can reliably (sometimes I think it bugs but rarely) avoid being blinded by facing walls. You can’t avoid being blinded during a pallet break though but at least most pallets are kind of mid so you can usually get away without breaking them
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killers can also see survivors items before the match start so they can at lest get the chance to counter play.
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Ye walls help avoid it but in open maps like cold wind farm where there are no walls around then it's a case of eating the blind or don't pick up unless lightborn is used. That's why I use lightborn very often and if I don't then I slug because I know what's coming if I attempt the pick up lol. I have even been blinded when grabbing someone out of a locker and caused them to get free, again unavoidable due to the animation of grabbing them.
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Killers can't see if survivors have flash bangs or that annoying perk that guarantees flashlight from chest (which many seem to use as it makes the killer think no flashlight so light born not needed)
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Hence why i said items. You see 4 flashlight its always a take light born to counter. As where survivors get nothing but a lobby that 99% of the time is no talking for the time its up.
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Even so, we're talking about a couple seconds of blindness, which in the case of either flashbangs or flashlights requires the survivor to give up distance at a pallet, or gen progress to lurk for a pickup, for the survivor to even attempt.
The killer perk that deals with this grants full immunity to blindness with no restrictions: there's no ramp up tokens, no charges, no "earning it", just equip the perk at full value all match. And at least this is a PVP interaction: the killer and survivor are interacting, and the killer has methods of counter play base kit as well (just look up, listen for survivors, etc).
Most survivor perks are to counter base kit abilities for killer. Camping, tunneling, and slugging all take no perks on the killer side, and require perks for survivors to deal with them. And even then it's not immunity, it's "partially, but not even fully mitigate the damage" and sometimes only exactly once per game with heavy restrictions.
In this case, something like counterforce doesn't even come close to breaking even with thrill. The numbers don't add up here, and even at max stacks thrill is overpowering the "counter perk". It's just mitigating the damage, barely at first.
And this isn't even pvp. The killer just equipped the broken, overtuned thing in the lobby and now survivors have to deal with the frustration of PvE objects. We had basically the same thing with gen kick meta, only now killers are incentivized to "defend totems" instead of "defend gens".
The survivors are the objective, one perk should never be giving this much value, let alone changing the core gameplay away from PVP to this degree.
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So how long would it take to destroy first, second, third and fourth totem? I think you've missed crucial information in your comment :)
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You can do it by yourself if you wanna prove a point lol
I'm not very good with maths, but you start the match with a 46 speed (5 tokens which is 14%•5 or depending on the way the game calculates it simply 70%, but I'm not sure if it adds extra 14% over the base number or over the next number) then you remove -20% (counterforce) which is next to 9 seconds in this case, the next totem have less 14% penalty and you get extra 20% speed (40% in total) 🤷♂️
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Yes, I wanna prove a point because instead of "use Counterforce lol" I did math and checked if this even makes sense.
No, it does not.
First totem:
14 second basic time ——> 14/(1-0.14*5) = 46.66 seconds base time with Thrill, 14/((1-0.14*5)*1.2) = 38.8 seconds with Thrill & Counterforce.
Second totem:
14 second basic time ——> 14/(1-0.14*4) = 31.8 seconds base time with Thrill, 14/((1-0.14*4)*1.4) = 22.7 seconds with Thrill & Counterforce.
Third totem:
14 second basic time ——> 14/(1-0.14*3) = 24.1 seconds base time with Thrill, 14/((1-0.14*3)*1.6) = 15.08 seconds with Thrill & Counterforce.
Counterforce didn't counter anything - it's still almost 3x slower than regular cleanse when no totems are broken and even after cleansing 3 totems it's still didn't negate all effects of Thrill.
So no, Counterforce is not a counter for Thrill.
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Just throwing this out there... it really depends on which of the totems cleansed is TOTH. You COULD cleanse it first. If you don't find it until you've already cleansed 3, there's no reason to waste time cleansing the 4th totem now.
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Which I think highlights how truly asinine this all is. You could guess correctly and bring a counterpick to reduce the first totem cleanse to 39 seconds(!). And it's still RNG as to whether you have an additional cleanse debuff after that. This is not a mechanic you put in a PVP game.
Post edited by edgarpoop on4 -
14% is way to high in my Opinion. 12% per Totem would be a good Number. But overall i actually like it that it makes Hex Perks more viable and useful.
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In some cases yes it is a couple of seconds of blindness but in many cases it's spending considerable amount of time to down a survivor to then have that time taken mean nothing due to a flash bang save so have to spend more time chasing them again. As far as PvP goes, survivors objective is gens to escape, not interact with the killer so having something to discourage PvP on the survivors part makes sense.
To be fair gens pop so fast these days it's nice that survivors get slowed down by totems. And the locations of totem spawns is so messed up and not hidden, survivors spawn right next to them sometimes an would disable the hex right at the start of the match. That made hexs worthless. With thrill it gives hexs value, gives survivors something else to work on other than speed popping gens. So in this case thrill perk is the counter to base kit speed progression. If gens didn't pop so fast at base value I don't think thrill would be as strong as it is, but it needs to be strong to counter the gen speeds.... something was needed thats for sure
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