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8.4.X - What should be improved (Updated after 8.4.2)
So, the changes from PTB to live were minimal. While the hotfixes fixed some parts, multiple issues still remain. In this post, I'll go over them and try to fix them. If it's not in this post, then it means I see it as a good change or I'm indifferent to it.
The Houndmaster - Basekit:
1.) Chase:
• Make his hitbox smaller, so he doesn't get caught on everything. (I'm not sure if his grab hitbox and normal hitbox are the same exact thing, but if it isn't, it should be. The alternative is to give Snug some more braincells so he will be able to avoid clutter.)
• Allow Snug to adjust his position during a Redirect.
2.) Search:
• One buff that should be made to the Search Path: Make the speed boost linger for a bit after leaving it, making it more lenient. Currently, you have to follow it exactly to get value, which feels awful.
3.) Houndsense:
• Add more benefits to it (Examples: louder noises regardless of state, denser scratch marks and brighter blood pools, survivors affected by it being easier to grab...).
4) Bugs, bugs, and bugs. Fix them please.
The Houndmaster - Add-ons:
She has a lot of bad ones which should get new effects or buffs, such as:
Torn Novel (Rework):
• Allows you to Redirect Chase Twice
Ship Figurehead (Additional effect):
• Decreases the Lullaby range of the dog by 50%
Training Bell (Rework):
• Increases Houndsense duration by 60%
Waterskin (Rework):
• Upon stunning Snug with a pallet, the pallet breaks.
Barley Meal (Buff):
• Now increases the distance of Chase across the board (was only the initial distance).
Belaying Pins (Buff):
• Now it applies Oblivious for 45 seconds (was 20).
Smoked Snapper (Buff):
• Increases the time needed to get out of a Dog Grab by 2 seconds.
Knotted Rope (Revert)
Oh, how the mighty have fallen... Tragic.
Creature's Bone (Rework):
• Increases the Houndsense radius by 20%.
Sticky Pitch (Rework):
• Increases the Dog's speed during a Redirect by 50%
Her perks aren't that bad, her survivor counterpart, however....
Taurie Cain - Perks:
Invocation: Treacherous Crows
It's awful. It's a condition stacked on a drawback with a mid reward. So, the changes I'd do are:
• Remove the terror radius requirement.
• Replace the permanent Broken with Oblivious.
• Now, joining an Invocation doesn't speed it up. Instead, the final effect is enhanced if a player joins in. In this perk's case, for each survivor that joins the process for 15 or more seconds, the length of the aura reading is increased by 0,5 seconds.
Clean Break:
A perk so niche it hurts. The 60 seconds of being Broken, plus the fact any healing perk reduces the time this perk "saves".
• Reduce the Broken duration to 60/50/40 seconds.
Shoulder the Burden:
Honestly, I don't know what to do with this one. One thing I do know though, is that the Exposed drawback is not really good.
• Replace the Exposed with a 10/15/20 second aura reveal.
• Make it so multiple instances of the same perk cannot be stacked on the same person.
Now, unto the smaller changes.
Killer Tweaks:
The Shape:
I already made a discussion about him, so here:
The Good Guy - Basekit:
• Revert all of the nerfs which happened in the 8.4.1 hotfix.
The Good Guy - Add-ons:
Rat Poison (Rework):
• Successful Slice and Dice attacks inflict Broken for 30 seconds.
The Dark Lord - Basekit:
• Decrease the Hellfire cooldown back to 7 seconds.
Killer perks:
Human Greed:
• Now also reveals opened chests.
• The duration of the aura reading is now infinite as long as there is someone in the radius.
Survivor perks:
Invocation: Weaving Spiders:
• Replace the permanent Broken with Exposed.
• Same change to joining in on the ritual as Invocation: TC. The effect for joining in is this: Joining the Invocation process for more than 10 seconds further decreases the amount of charges on each gen by 3.
• Now, the effect is postponed if a gen is blocked.
Scene Partner:
• You can preform actions while it's active now.
What are your thoughts on these changes?
Comments
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One thing that I forgot to add:
HUD:
• The progress of the AFC mechanic should be added to the HUD.
2 -
Dracula needs more changes to Wolf form. Right now these will not help his tracking potential at all, and it will still be a worse chase form than Vampire.
For being Dracula's tracking tool, it surely sucks at tracking. Smaller pounce charge time and orbs appearing 1 second earlier will not help at all and it will still be his worse form by far.
He needs tracking outside the chase. Inside the chase most of the tracking is useless and you can track survivors with every killer.
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Not great at writing essays, but I still wanted to respond to this post
Houndmaster changes I absolutely agree with. There isn't enough of a benefit to give survivors Houndsense. Having something else with it could make it more interesting to use Snug for some sort of bonus effect on the survivor with Houndsense in chase. Not to sure on the addons, would have to be tested to see how they good they would be.
I agree that Treacherous Crows should not have a requirement for survivors to be within the Terror Radius, and that the perk should apply Oblivious instead of Broken, as the effect it gives isn't enough to warrant being injured permanently.
Invocations having a larger effect for the more survivors are on it is unique to other ideas i've seen, and although I'm not completely against it, is not something that I think would be good for the game.
Clean Break seems already decent if used correctly. It allows you to not waste time healing and to do a generator in the meantime, but at the downside of taking significantly longer to heal yourself. It seems fine the way it is, although maybe a bit weak. I would rather wait and see how it performs before any changes are made
Shoulder the Burden giving an aura reveal is also interesting, as that gives the killer value from knowing where the survivor who now has the extra hook state is if the killer is far away, and doesn't reward the killer for proxy camping the hook for a free down on the now-exposed survivor. The change to not more than once on a survivor is also fine, as I feel like that could be frustrating for some players, but I also don't think it is necessary. I personally believe that the problems the perk may cause (if any) would be done to the killer being more encouraged to get survivors out of the game as fast as possible, and would be made more fair if changes were done is some way to encourage killers to spread hook states more.
Myers changes seem mostly fine to me, just not sure how hard it would be to code the extra effect on vanity mirror. Tombstone Piece would also be extremely hard to use, as you would first have to drain 20 points from a survivor, while they also regenerate stalk points. Might be better to just rework Tombstone Piece completely.
I don't have enough experience playing as or against Chucky, so can't really say too much about the change to Rat Poison
It did feel somewhat unnecessary that they increased the cooldown of Hellfire, so reverting that is a good thing in my opinion
Weave Attunement might need other changes if the range goes back to 12 Meters, as a lot of people complained about the perk.
Human Greed feels too similar to Weave Attunement with your change to revealing auras. I think seeing the open chests would be nice enough as a bit more of an incentive to close the chests, and would make the perk more useful
The change to Weaving Spiders I am mixed about, as I partially enjoy using it with resilience to increase my speed on gens and help with chase. The change to make it exposed allows you to get hit by special attacks twice, but prevents the combo with resilience and no mither as much (although you could stay injured for resilience). This would also lead the killer to not know who is exposed after completing the invocation, which is something else to consider this change, as they would originally know exactly who was the vulnerable survivor on the HUD with the broken status effect.
Scene Partner change is more a problem with screaming than the perk, and might have to change the way the perk is coded to allow being able to not be interrupted on object.
Again, these are my opinions on your patch changes, and I'm not necessarily right or wrong. I do appreciate you taking your time to read through this though.
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Thanks for commenting!
So, at least to me, Clean Break might be fine, but the time frame is just so lengthy it hurts. Then again, that is just my opinion.
As for Tombstone Piece, my main objective was to make it hard to get value from it, to bury the bad rep Myers gets forever. Maybe I did too much.
Human Greed was always supposed to be Weave 2.0 and no one can convince me otherwise.
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One more thing, some of the bugs she had on the PTB, like Snug being unwilling to jump from a height, jumping through a window instead of grabbing a survivor, and getting stuck on everything, are still in the game.
All of them make her feel more clunky and bad to play as, so these should be fixed quickly.
Our Snug needs to find his lost braincell!
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ngl the fact that this stupid dog just stands there and does nothing, while a survivor basically runs straight into his face is so dumb. Average bhvr performance.
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Shoulder the burden gives an aura reveal when you already get a notification when someone unhooks… 👍🏻
In return, it extends the life of a survivor by quite a few stages. “Spreading hooks” is great as an idea, not as a strategy. The game is not balanced towards fun and cute gameplay, is balanced towards efficiency and everyone rushing objetives, either killing or completing gens. This perk, paired with the possible builds, will be perma ban in comp DBD and made SWF borderline unbeatable.
Just because of the casual guy that gives up on hook or is not playing to win, that doesn’t mean that you need to buff it more. My god.
They should actually only allow it once. And still it would be strong as hell.
The rest I agree for the most part.
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I don't think that revealing the resquer's aura for 20 or more seconds would be that bad, especially since you'd know exactly where they are and don't have to sit next to the hook to get value.
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Edit 1: Updated the discussion.
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I don’t agree with shoulder the burden can only activate once on the same survivor. Trading hook stages can already backfire very badly. The change with the aura seems good.
They should remove the cooldown of human greed as well.
Thrill of the hunt could get a secondary effect if they nerf it. - Reduces gen repairing speed, healing speed and sabotaging speed by 3% for each remaining dull/hex totem.
Weaving spider should cost one hook state like shoulder of the burden gives one away.
Agree with most of the rest.
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For Mikey there's three main things I want;
- Buff the stalk up close multiplier to at least 0.6
- Change the stalk conditions on the iri add ons. The current is far too harsh.
- Please give us an activation prompt for tier 3
2 -
Redirect needs to auto-look at the closest survivor upon taking control. The fact that you can't even rely on a chase command into an instant fire, same straight line redirect because for whatever insane reason your camera position is based on where the dog is looking, and the dog can get misaligned 5 degrees to the side after going in a straight line is beyond frustrating. It doesn't even make sense why the dog would just stare at the wall it ran into anyway.
2 -
I want a 0-8m terror radius in Tier 2.
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Yeah, they should do at least that.
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The StB nerf was an attempt to bring this perk into a state people wouldn’t complain about 24/7.
Thrill could get some other form of counterplay instead of a straight-up nerf, like I’ve seen @UndeddJester suggest.
And as for the Invocation, well, the potential is there, especially with the option to almost double the reward, so I just kept the drawback hefty.
1 -
Well they archived that. Nobody runs STB, because it is a useless perk added to the hill of useless perks.
Not a fan of either of his suggestions in the other thread. I’d rather take a nerf or revert.
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I agree with you for sure! 100%. She needs some attention. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks they will take the time to make this right.
Sidenote -
Spiked Collar (Buff):• Now it applies Mangled and Hemorrhage for 70 seconds (was 45).
Its actually 60 seconds not 45. However, it should be 70. :)
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Its actually 60 seconds not 45. However, it should be 70. :)
Yeah, I didn't noticed that when making it. But I also heard it's bugged to still be 45 seconds.
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She is fine right now, just a bugged a bit, please stop buffing killers that interrupt movement speed, they are most annoying to vs
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Need some major QoL features to the search power. Like bigger radius and faster recharge. Also the power feels janky cuz the indicator shows the power is ready to use but i cant send the dog out after recovering from searching . It would be preferable to have your dog respawn by your side instead of having him take his sweet time getting stuck coming back
1 -
Just because you can’t play well against them, doesn’t mean that they ahould stay D tier.
Other than that, you are right she is bugged. A LOT. We are talking Twins 2.0.
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Sorry but there is no need to make life even more difficult for survivors in the game there are already enough killers against whom we HAVE to learn to play, I want a basic-casual experience! It is much easier to play for a killer, we can just learn to play for one killer and thats it, when for a survivor we need to know all 30+ killers and their addons, so yes, there is no need to buff this killer even more, I don’t want to learn to play against her again! Stop ruining the game for survivors soon we will all switch to killers if this trend continues
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Honestly, I can only say skill issue.
This is the easiest to counter killer we got in years.
You can quite literally avoid her dog by going behind a bush and there is nothing she can do.
Houndsense works only as a slight info tool and a counter to Dead Hard.
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She attacks very fast cuz wind up time is too fast so in open areas she can't be countered at all
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Wouldn't surprise me. Ill give it a test.
1 -
Yes, she can use her dog in an open area. She can counter holding W decently.
But looping her makes her power useless. As long as there is an obstacle between you and her, she cannot do anything to you.
So, if you can loop the Trapper well, you shouldn't have a lot of issues with Houndmaster either.
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Thank you I know how to loop trapper (also he is basic killer not tons of abilities in one like Dracula), no need to tell me that I am low mmr or don’t have skill, houndmasters wind up time should be nerfed
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So you won’t have issues with her as well.
I’m repeating it: A solid object between her and you is all you need to counter her.
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No it's not if killer has 100+ ping dog is too fast so lagger have an advantage
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Yeah, but that's nothing new, really.
Lagswitching and using ping in your favor was always a thing.
I'm saying this the last time, looping her normally mostly destroys her power.
Stop trying to guilttrip me.
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Edit: Adjusted the discussion after the 8.4.1 hotfix, which fixed Weave Attunement, the Spiked Collar add-on and some Houndmaster bugs, and Freddied Chucky.
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Ghostface frankly needs a rework of the entire Reveal mechanic to not be so finicky for either side, and his leaning needs to be fixed, it's been broken for months. He could stand another addon pass and some addons being outright changed, too. The rest of his buffs are fine.
Chucky didn't need all those nerfs, he was okay after Rat Poison nerf.
Houndmaster needs serious fixes to the bugginess on Snug.
TotH needs a slight nerf down to 12%, 14% is too much but 10% is clearly too little.
Shoulder the Burden might need more adjusting if it becomes too meta and people start abusing it the way they have abused other anti-griefing perks like OTR, DS, and Dead Hard. It's currently much too strong if a SWF is involved and maybe a little overtuned in SoloQ. At the least it shouldn't be able to activate in the endgame, I'd even say it should not activate more than once a round because controlling hookstages is THAT powerful. The only reason it's not used more is because it's very niche and sorta hard to use.
Invocation: Treacherous Crows should not have Broken as a downside for this effect, it should instead make the Survivor Blind and Oblivious the rest of the round in exchange. Broken is too severe for so weak an effect. I still think Invocations should never be stackable, you shouldn't need THAT many powers in one. They're not undoable like Boons nor do they have any real serious counterplay, so stacking them would be unfair.
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Mostly agree with this.
I already made a nerf suggestion for StB removing the ability to stack it on the same person multiple times. It's in the post.
As for the new Invocation, I don't think they should stack too, especially if they will get less severe downsides. I would make it so it only makes you Oblivious, though, as if it made you Blind too, you would get zero value out of it. That would guarantee that it would become a SWF only perk.
Post edited by SoGo on1 -
What Chucky seriously needs is make his scamper more useful, that's all he should've gotten instead of his nerf
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Oblivious might be a better idea, or rather maybe it makes the Killer always Undetectable for you as a downside?
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Update 2: Removed some Houndmaster suggestions and the Hex:TotH nerf idea, as they were put into the game.
Another thing, added in a plea to revert Knotted Rope. They massacred it.
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