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Invocation perk overhaul (and 2 new invocation perks)
So invocation perks, 60s in the basement, broken for the rest of the trial. 2 So far mediocre effects but an interesting base for an archetype, and they get applied separately. Not the worst ideas but lets see if we can't improve the ones we have, improve using them together (or at least separately faster) and give them different downsides
CHANGE 1: Increase invocation speed per invocation perk you have
This one feels like a must, asking people to take separate instances to apply different invocations could be interesting but having it take 60s for each one is not, so lets give them a reason to use them together shall we. Every equipped invocation perk increases ritual speed by an additional 50% (so since the base effect is 50% on helping someone, 1 invocation perk performs it at 100% and 2 at 150% 3 at 200% and 4 at 250% invocation speed)
Now lets get some numbers of how long that means you will spend in the basement to activate all of your invocation perks
1 Invocation, 60s
2 Invocations, 40s each (80s total)
3 invocations, 30s each (90s total)
4 invocations, 24s each (96s total)
This makes stacking invocations a interesting prospect even if you just plan to activate a single invocation, but at most your teammates stay for about 1 gens worth of time to get all of their strong global effects active now for some better and more fitting downsides
CHANGE 2: Different Downsides
Invocation perks don't need to be the same across the board but lets say for fun they all have something they share across the board, something with the potential to be stronger or weaker but be removed the same way, a debuff lasting until you become hooked (or just in case the killer decides to leave you alone for a while 180s).
Changes to current downsides
Weaving spiders, Broken for the rest of trial → Broken until hooked (or 180s)
Treacherous Crows, Broken for the rest of trial → When you scare a crow you have you aura revealed to the killer for 3s until hooked (or 180s)
Now for a small rework to Treacherous Crows,
(standard invocation jargon about time taken and location)
Once the Invocation is completed, the following effects apply:
Whenever a crow is scared by a survivor in the killers terror radius or while in a chase, the killers aura is revealed to all survivors for 5s this effect has a 15s cooldown.
Whenever you scare a crow you have you aura revealed to the killer for 3s until hooked or 180 seconds have passed
One of the biggest problem with treacherous crows is that usually the survivor scares the crows before the killer does running through an area in chase. To make the perk actually usable it needs to happen when the survivor scares the crow and not the other way around, the duration is also just too short even if you pair it with a perk like eyes of Belmont, unless the survivors already know the general area of where the killer is 2 seconds is barely even enough to look where the killer is and see them for the survivors outside of the chase.
The cooldown is a bit of a precaution since some maps are inconsistent with too many or too little crows I think a 5s duration and a 15s cooldown should help bridge those gaps, it will be almost always available on maps with sparce crows running from tile to tile, and won't be constant wallhacks should some map just have an abundance but it should be much more consistent with a longer duration and easier activation condition
As for downside, I think its fitting to have the crows not be on your side fully for a bit. If you want to get a lot of aura reading on the killer be prepared to be seen right back until you get hooked for the first time or a decent chunk of time passes.
Finally some new ideas
Invocation : Bloodied Grounds
(standard invocation jargon about time taken and location)
Once the invocation is completed, the following effects apply
Grants the ability to fully recover from the Dying State once per Trial to all survivors after being downed for 60s (this is not a cumulative 90s if you get picked up after 40s then get downed again you have to wait a full 60s)
Hooks respawn 50% faster
You recover from the dying state 45% slower (you would still be at 95% progress right before the 60s are up) and take 20% longer to wiggle off the killers shoulder this lasts until you become hooked or 180s have passed
Invocation : Shoddy Restoration
(standard invocation jargon about time taken and location)
Once the invocation is completed, the following effects apply
Every 75s a random broken pallet on the map respawns, these pallets are broken by the killers 25% faster and killers stunned by these pallets recover from the stun 25% faster
After dropping a pallet your aura is revealed to the killer for 6s, this effect lasts until you are hooked or 180s
Overall I think invocations have a lot of potential but they should branch out a bit more with more unique downsides and better ways to stack multiple. The ones we have could use a little bit of love and I hope there are more on the way with more interesting effects.
Comments
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We're just throwing our thoughts here
Change 1: That would be a nice idea, but since having multiple survivors help also quicken the timer makes it seem like a "ok why bother with the team then" to us? We're part of the "should all happen at once" crowd so maybe we don't see it.
Change 2: Yes and no to that. Yes, having different penalties for each invocation would be a good and fun idea to us. No to the suggested ideas, specifically the 180 timer and on hook bits. As much as people don't think on it, they are very good effects. Spiders shaves off permanent time from every gen and crows gives a buff for every survivor to see the killer while in terror radius, if the killer is not running some kind of stealth and your semi careful you can easily avoid chases (on that note this one is more meant to avoid chases, not to be used in chase by default). And these are effects that don't ever go away. The drawbacks should be a permanent thing on the survivor, whatever it is.
Idea 1: We'd rather simplify it so that everyone can pick themselves up once from the dying state and the slow recovery or something like the survivor has perma mangled.
Idea 2: We would increase the numbers on everything bar the aura reveal (and technically we'd remove the until hooked or 180, which we said before we just straight up disagree with). Maybe make them like anniversary pallets for a shorter time?
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I think they should just have them stack like boons so no matter how many you run, all of them will be complete at once. They are the worst perks in the game because of their massive drawback, they should have some decent rewards if you want to use them
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Teammates would still speed it up, especially if they have multiple invocations of their own, and be able to spread the debuffs, two survivors with 4 invocations would be able to complete invocations at 500% speed (or get 5 invocations done in 48 seconds) its still very much a team activity if you plan ahead or happen to run into someone doing the same thing
Its fine to have them be permanent instead, I thought it might be more interesting to play with a temporary downside instead, also for the crow perk I think having it avoid chase rather than be good in chase is just boring since avoiding chases through stealth while maybe effective is just not a fun gameplay loop, and exactly why people hated distortion because it lead to teammates who would stealth all game at 0 hooks and sometimes not even participate in repairing gens
Map wide single use pick up with no delay could be fine but it would need a much stronger downside to balance out maybe this is the one that comes with perma broken instead of weaving spiders
The numbers are buffs to the killer when dealing with the respawned pallets, would they break them faster and get stunned even shorter but have them respawn faster? Also maybe the pallets become event pallets after the next one respawns.
Thank you for the feedback
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I think having them all apply at once while fine on paper for now definitely won't be fine if we get 4 invocation perks it should be future proofed
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That would make them extremely fast for good effects…we'd be willing to test but we're admittedly wary of the possible speeds.
shrug to each their own, its just that the use we've actually gotten outta it currently leans heavily towards stealth play.
Well, we we're thinking just giving everyone straight up slower unbreakable but that works too.
It was more like 90 for pallet respawn and 40-50 for break and recovery. The event pallets would be more a substitute for everything as for the shorter respawn time, you have a pallet only useful for stuns, wouldn't need to bother with killer stun and break time. But again, thats just spit balling ideas.
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The speeds have a lot of potential to be fast but again if 2 players equipped 4 invocation perks each thats 8 slots take up just to set up 4 effects quickly
I think people don't want a stealth play perk especially if it doesn't actually work unless they know the killer is already in the area, but I see the idea behind it being a stealth play perk
True its kind of interchangeable with event pallets at that point if its very fast to recover from a stun then break them but I think they should be slightly safer than event pallets, I think they should buy at least a second of time to run away when the killer starts kicking it stun or not rather than a pallet you need for force a stun from because that makes it more versatile against killers who can play around upright pallets which was the main idea.
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yes, but thats 4 permanent world effects for 1 gimped survivor (we do not count survivors without perks "gimped") in a gens time [or less if we got our way of all activating at once 😁]. We're just wary is all.
We can say we'd like it and don't particularly care for more chase things. People already tuning out brains enough as is. Our main gripe is that one of us has to use it if we want it, but thats an us problem.Then we offer the increased numbers to your suggestion. Mostly having pallets being remade automatically with minimal action from the survivor on a normal game seems like frustration to us, even if theyre broken quicker but we do see the appeal of having a way to restore resources.
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So, first off, my thoughts:
• The Invocations should absolutely have different drawbacks to them than just Broken. But making it time limited isn't the best choice. I think these should be permanent. My choices are Exposed for Weaving Spiders and Oblivious for Treacherous Crows.
• I think that 60 seconds are just enough to make the Invocations not busted. They have counterplay, but aren't too slow.
• Your new perk ideas are interesting, they seem fun. However, I have to say nay to the TC buff. The only change it needs (except replacing the Broken) is making it not terror radius based.
• One additional idea I had, is that instead of speeding the Invocations up by joining, you make the effect stronger. Example: Participating in the ritual for Invocation: WS makes it so additional 3 charges are taken away from all gens.
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Different drawbacks = good, I was just taking one design idea 180s or being hooked and seeing what I would come up with off of that, im not hardset on it. Although perma exposed for pretty much spending 1:1 time on a invo to get that progress on gens is probably a bit much especially since its inconsistent which killers that actually good against. Stealth killers? Pain, Nurse, fine doesn't really do anything for example.
60s is fine when you have 1 or 2 but as soon as you have 3 or 4 there just needs to be a better way besides placing them all at once like how boons work
I don't know if even map wide can save tc in its current condition, but it would be a nice start
I don't know about instead of speeding up invocations, especially if it comes with small numbers like 3% on a perk that gives 10% for 60s more survivor time.
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