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Nerfing Michaels Iridescent Add-on Combo for Infinite Tombstone was unneeded, and here's why.
First of all i just want to say to anyone out there that wants to claim that the infinite tombstone combo was "Overpowered" or "Unfair" i just want to make it clear that infinite tombstone had better counterplay compared to regular tombstone piece which has always been better.
And if you want to dismiss that previous statement then i will remind you of the following reasons why it was easy to avoid.
- Michael has a 32m Terror radius in tier 3, making getting away from him early before he gets on your position easy as you get plenty of warning he's coming.
- Literally any interactable be it a locker, a generator, a chest, self healing can keep you from being tombstoned by Michael
- he is given a 9% slowdown with the addon, making his regular tier 3 speed of 4.6m/s (or 115% movement speed) reduced to 4.186m/s (or 106% movement speed) which is actually just as slow as his now "Old" Tier 1 Movement speed of 4.2m/s if not slightly slower, putting him at a significant disadvantage in chase. Yes you can run Play With Your Food to bandaid fix the movement speed penalty but at max PWYF stacks you're only getting 6% faster movement speed over his normal 115% which isn't a lot.
- It already took a very long time to get to Tier 3 with both addons equipped back before the changes, most matches would already get to the last Gen or all generators completed for most players trying to run the two addons together even with Anti-Generator slowdown.
With all these points in mind i'd like to talk about why it was nerfed so heavily, i know they only added a 100% increase over the already existing 300% now making it 400% Stalk needed per addon (total of 800% more stalk required) but was it really necessary? Yes they doubled the amount of stalk per survivor but that doesn't really make much of a difference since you would've had to stalk all survivors anyway with the old version and you're still doing the same thing with the new version so i fail to see how that could be the reason attributed to the new stalk requirement.
Yes they made it faster to stalk from a distance but because it takes so long to even get to tier 3 you're never going to spend your time stalking from a distance, because you need to put down constant pressure on the survivors if you even want to hint at making it to tier 3 because if you don't all those generators are going to pop while you stand far away as you watch them run away from you and getting behind cover because you've been spotted, forcing you to chase after them.
Even before the changes i can never name a single Michael Myers that would think it was a smart idea to stalk from a distance to get infinite tier 3 because it took way too long, so you had to stare in peoples faces to apply pressure, but now we're still having to do the exact same thing because if you don't play aggressively you just lose.
Sure you can stalk from a distance if you want to, go right ahead, but once the survivors know what you're up to it's over, the cats out of the bag and you're forced to go after them and face the repercussions of stalking in their faces.
The only reason i am bringing any of this up in the first place is because for one, i feel like these addons didn't even need a nerf, they are practically almost impossible to get going now because either playstyle of stalking from afar and losing gens or stalking aggressively in their face all match only to never get tier 3 is both a lose - lose situation and i find it makes the two addons combined useless now.
By themselves? i can see them being used as just the 400% standalone is still feasible, but 800%? no thankyou, i'd rather use the Superior tombstone piece, which has, and still is, the better option if you want to mori someone out of the game quickly despite the now 300% stalk required compared to it's previous 200%.
I also feel it's worth it to point out, and this is the BIGGEST problem i have with this change, is that completionists or people just wanting to do achievements, are going to find it near or next to impossible to get the Evil Incarnate Achievement now, as if it wasn't already one of the most difficult to obtain achievements in the game it's now going to be considered nearly unobtainable for any players that haven't already gotten it, which is why i'm glad to say i already got it years ago, and the only reason i see people getting it still is if they match with their friends or they play against baby survivors that just started playing the game.
My suggestion to fix this problem would be to revert them back to their original state of being 300% each instead of the new 400%, making infinite tombstone cost the same as it did before which we all know took a long time anyway, so what would be the issue in reverting it?
Comments
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I think everyone agrees his iri add ons were overly nerfed.
But until they fix it, if at all, just use the piece. It's actually more viable now with his stalk buffs.
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Literally any interactable be it a locker, a generator, a chest, self healing can keep you from being tombstoned by Michael
I have been tombstoned on a gen grab before. I think the only thing that prevents it are locker grabs.
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You can't be tombstoned via Gen grabs? what you must've experienced was an unfortunate latency issue, he cannot kill you on a gen unless you get off of it or you get interrupted somehow.
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Might've been a glitch. This happened a very long time ago tbf.
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I agree with everything.
Post edited by Xaggy on0 -
If you wouldn't be sweating for a bloody achievement and forcing the tombstone on survivors they might have the need to do this. The only way to counter was to either get in a locker or force you to down them by vaulting and then instead of hooking you force the wiggle out to get it. It was a busted add on and this was needed.
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I'm puzzled as to how anyone would think that being insta-killed while healthy with no hooks is fair in any way. I, for one, am glad to see it nerfed (I even would've preferred a complete rework of the add-ons rather than simply making it take forever to hit Tier III, but whatever, I'll take what I can get, I guess).
Infinite Tier III Tombstone was miserable to play against, as well as boring. I don't like having to jump into the nearest locker at the first hint of his terror radius…you know, like the bots…because one misstep, and I can be instantly deleted from the match. And when we're hiding in lockers trying to avoid the Killer, gens aren't being done. And then the Killer patrols, searching for Survivors he can't find. The match drags on foreverrrrrr… How is this fun?
So yeah, Infinite Tier III Tombstone can die in a fire for all I care.
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Realistically neither add-on should be in the game and have been kept likely for the sole reason of the achievements. I have no doubt this will be adressed in his full rework, but the entire point was that Micheal shouldn't be viable with only his tombstone add-ons.
It's not healthy for the current state of the game.
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Very well said. And I agree they should be 300%.
I actually conducted a little experiment, which I'll probably post later, where I played 10 games of double Iridescent Myers to see how long it takes to get Tier 3.
Pre-Update, when using Infinite Tombstone, I'd usually pop tier 3 when there's 2 gens left.
Post Update, in the 10 games I played, there were 3 games where I couldn't reach Tier 3 AT ALL. The survivors all escaped before I could even reach Tier 3.
There were only 2 games where I reached Tier 3 before endgame. In those games, the survivors basically handed me stalk on a silver platter.
You can't reach Tier 3 with both iri add-ons now unless the survivors are completely clueless
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With that argument i'd counter that by saying why isn't perks like shoulder the burden not considered "Unhealthy" in the current state of the game?
A Perk that literally punishes the killer for playing the game, yes i know it's there to prevent tunneling but it can be used in a way that makes hooking counter-intuitive.
And talking about punishing people, Tombstone punishes people for being sloppy in their matches, feeding Michael Evil until he eventually kills them, i see that as something that is the complete fault of the survivors incompetence and they died very deservedly for either not paying attention or not using the plenty of counterplay that's available.
Post edited by JumpscareMyers on2 -
At least someone here gets it.
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So in other words you're saying that by using the available counterplay lockers and windows, those addons should've been nerfed?
Almost sounds like you're just saying they should be nerfed because you specifically don't like the playstyle, and by that note, how fun or boring it is.
Tombstone isn't meant to be fun for you, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean it needs to be changed, it hasn't been changed in 7 years and they will never remove the kill mechanic, if you don't like it just let Michael kill you instead of wasting your own time and move on to the next game if it bothers you so much.
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Just because a set of addons are boring or miserable to play against is really an entirely different subject since we're basing changes completely on your personal enjoyment and not for actual gameplay balance reasons.
You're also asking them to completely remove the kill modifier which is the one thing that makes myers standout from the other killers, it's what makes him special, his whole character in the movies is about stalking his victims, only to kill them when they're most vulnerable, and depending on your style of play as the killer that's exactly what happens to the survivors, so not only is it accurate cinematically it's also accurate to his character.
That's like asking to remove Freddy's black box addon because he can block the gates for 15 seconds after they've been opened, rigging the game into his favour as canonically Freddy is pretty much omnipotent in the dream world and can do whatever he likes, if they removed that addon it'd also be robbing his character of something that makes him unique, which is the same argument i'm fighting for Michael.
They will never remove his tombstone addons, they haven't in 7 years, it's only now they've made changes, but only to be more accurate to his character with the stalk distance change, the reason they will never remove tombstone's kill ability is because it's far too radical of a change, if all they're doing is minor changes to his power and addons then you can forget about them making massive changes to his addons and playstyle.
But i'm sorry you found infinite tombstone boring, but to be quite honest why should the killer care about your personal enjoyment? it's not like you have his best interests in mind, just like the killer shouldn't care about how you feel, are you going to reward him because he let everyone go? No? so why should it matter if the killer runs whatever addons he likes, he doesn't care about you and neither do you about him, so the fact you found it "Boring" is an opinion that no one really cares about, just like how it doesn't validate why the tombstone addons should be removed.
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"I don't care about you, you don't care about me." Every time people say that, it makes me wonder why we're even having these discussions. I'm just speaking my mind on how I feel about it. Of course you don't have to care about it.
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Out of those multiple paragraphs that's the only thing you decided comment on, people's emotional needs and wants are not a relevant subject in these discussions, this whole community is full of cry babies that complain about everything whenever something inconveniences them, rather than having a discussion purely about the rights and wrongs about certain gameplay elements, looking at existing counterplay etc, etc.
If i'm going to write constructive criticism i expect you to do the same instead of just throwing your "Feelings" in here, your response isn't criticism, it's just complaining, unless you're going to come up with constructive ideas on how to change the add-on your response is just gonna come across as generic whining to me, but i will, of course still critique any aspects of your ideas if i don't agree with them, because the main subject we're discussing here is that we want to keep Michaels gameplay uniqueness intact, anything that harms that is at risk of diminishing his character which to be completely honest is absolutely unacceptable.
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Judith's Tombstone should be 300%. Fragrant Tuft of Hair should be 250%
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