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Slugging For The 4K - An Exaggerated Problem?
Comments
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not doing your job is stalling
The survivor's job is either to survive, which they're doing, or to escape, which they're also doing by making a hatch play.
sooo if they can't win
They CAN win. That's why they hide. It's their only way TO win.
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Why would a killer bring a perk the find the last survivors when all they need to do is out wait them? If survivors waits too long they both get sacrificed due to server ending. I used to bring whispers but found that after a while I thought if I have time to wait like the survivors do then I can get 4k without taking up a perk slot... Just wait out the hiding.
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You would have a valid argument if at the end of the hiding the survivor got an escape. But hide too long and server ends resulting in both remaining survivors to be sacrificed. The goal is escape... Not hide. Hide as a means to escape yes but if there is no means to escape (no hatch, can't do gens and both are hiding) then hiding is a death sentence.
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One that most would happily wait out.
Akin to…
Slugging to bleed out.Not a good comparison? Eh, it's good enough, yeah? Yeah, its definitely good enough.
Dbd is a game about wasting the actual time of a player than the game. Dbd, so it feels to me, is a game about making the other side miserable in game. A quick surf through the forums would get almost anyone to this conclusion, as its all just malice and immaturity combined into the Gruesome Gateau that is… Dead by Daylight.
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I've been thinking about this as well reading over the thread. Not just because being unable to find hiding survivors for 20+ minutes is really rare, but the situation of one of them getting saved, then hiding out seems borderline impossible.
The double standard is that the list of "bad things that killers do" often helps raise their win rate. Pretty much every killer strategy that helps the killers raise their kill rate, is labeled and demonized as a problem.Don't bring BMPs that auto-finish four gens.
Don't run infinites.
Don't sabotage all the hooks.
Be in a SWF
Except the first three got patched out because they were obviously problematic, and the final one gets complained about all the time. Then you have complaints against other strategies, some of which have also been removed, FTP+Buckle Up, background player / flashbang, hook saboing, etc. Really the only thing survivors can do to hold the killer in the game that the survivors have won is stay at the exit gate, and most people agree that is a jerk move (which, unlike slugging, the killer at least has some power to end).
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So, first of all... If you're coming to me and saying
Why would a killer bring a perk the find the last survivors when all they need to do is out wait them
I mean, you certainly can... But why do we even have this post in the first place?
The entire conversation revolves around this being a waste of time, so if you're going to complain about the waste of time that apparently happens "regularly", that tells me you're stomping your games a lot. And there's room in the build for perks that can be used to help with that.
People can also improve game sense, and learn where survivors are throughout the match, which doesn't take a perk slot. It also requires that people improve as players, so that is usually of the table for a lot of people. Posting on the forums is far easier.
Or you can wait for the end of the game, but then why are we even talking about it if this is a reasonable solution in your mind?
Second of all:
So now it's perfectly fine to just "wait it out"?
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Shall we waste time explaining despite the apparent fact your not going to get it or going to ignore it? Of course we will, we're bored🎶
So as we said, if hiding while that 3rd survivor is slugged doesn't count as playing the game, then neither does slugging for the 4k. While that 3rd is slugged, the 4th has to survive the bleed out timer while the killer does whatever. The survivor is surviving (shocker) by avoiding the killer so they get the chance to escape after however long. The killer is searching for the 4th just as the 4th is hiding to avoid them. They're playing the game just as much as the killer in this scenario. Just because you don't think it is doesn't mean it's not.
What we understand is that people will slug for the 4k because they want the 4k for whatever reason. We wrong here? How so.
Here's a scenario, if we've saved people off the hook and healed them, did the equivalent of atleast 2 gens despite the stacked regression, took a chase or 2 and there's still 3 gens up. We suddenly don't care about the team by hiding when that 3rd survivor is slugged? Adding on, if that killer is competent they're also keeping an eye on the slug so how would it be smart to go heal them or finish a gen thereby announcing where we are? Hiding = staying alive long enough for the bleed out = smart. Logic 101 (this is sad that we're using more reasonable logic) As a bonus spite, it seems to really anger killers like you~
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Nobody said daily occurrence. And…how? I can generally hazard a guess where people are if they're doing gens and stuff, but trying to play the shell game with infinite lockers - my ESP seems to be broken.
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I'm not sure if it's intentional, but your posts tend to carry a really sarcastic tone that puts my back up.
I definitely don't regularly stomp teams, I'd say I 'win' about half the time. But I also play relatively chill, rotate through most of the killers and struggle to stick to one at a time - which may be a product of my own quite severe adult-diagnosis ADHD. This also does affect my gameplay, in that I lose track of people so I already run information heavy. At least 2 slots.
There is no room in my builds.
Generally you'll see me with Discordance, Oppression/PR, DMS/Grim and maybe BBQ or FOR. Some killers I generally don't run info on, like Hag or Trapper, because I really need Corrupt to give me setup time. On Ghosty or someone I'll drop one regression for an LP/PR/FOR/JC build which is extremely info heavy.
Whispers can work but whispers is a temperamental creature. Often all it'll do is tell you 'hey, there is a survivor hiding somewhere on this half of The Game. It's also not something killers should be really expected to run every game on the off chance I have hiders.
But sure. I'll see if I can record the next time I get a hiding pair and I'll pop it up on YouTube or something.
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Problem here is…
If you have the third survivor, it's not 'taking the killer hostage', since you can just hook them and move to EGC after a minute.
We were talking about slugging surv #3 for the 4K.
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I like everything about this post - clear good and bad distribution. If the survivor is good he takes the bait and dies by your hand like you want him to or he is a toxic pussy who doesn't know how to play the videogame. Killer is good by default, naturally, and knows what every survivor has done over the course of the game which allows him to judge the last survivor.
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"I've been playing for slightly longer. I see it maybe once a day. Last two both want hatch (or to be nasty) so will go from locker to locker hoping I find the other one first. "
Direct quote from you
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Sigh. Okay this is why I shouldn't multitask as I don't even remember posting that.
I probably meant week.
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not survive.. escape, but by hiding and doing nothing youre not going anywhere…you're just wasting everyone's time
ok.. so you're stalling, wasting so much time on doing nothing and it's ok but slugging one guy to finish game is bad thing and toxic.. okay, okay i think i understand now how sad survivors are.0 -
if you have to hide and waste 10 or more minutes to have 50% chance on hatch (50/50, you find it before killer of killer before you) because your team WITH YOU couldn't complete gens then you already lost this game and now you're just stalling. and again HOW IS SLUGGING FOR 4K NOT PLAYING GAME? because you obviously ignored that question.. like others
if i don't see one surv whole game it's obvious he is not playing and just hiding somewhere. especially when killer doesn't even have terror radius so surv can't hide before killer come closer and see scratch marks0 -
@alpha5 hey, like this one too? XD
Well if they're staying in one place then you should be able to find them pretty easy by searching the map~ They are playing the "hiding" part of "hide and seek". Know that game? You say the survivors job is completing gens and escaping. Your half right, it ONLY escaping (unless they got some other definition for winning), does not matter how. Because the killer slugged that 3rd, if there's more than 1 gen or if the killer is guarding said slug, then the best way to complete their job is to wait for the slug to die.
if that's ok then slugging without even touching surv is good too. because 4 minutes is not 20 minutes ;) and it's always 4 minutes, it's always less than hiding.
Gonna be honest here, we have absolutely no idea how you reached for that logic. Soooo hows slugging everyone equal to slugging for the 4k? If nothing else we'd think it would be longer than slugging for the 4k. Waiting 1 survivor to bleed vs 3 to bleed. Not even touching the heavy details here. Care to explain or you just shouting into the fog random things?
who we?? who? who's "we"?? and where did you get that "whaterever reason"??? did you never read any comment? you have dozens of comments explaining why people slug for 4k, TO GET 4K, genius.
Rulebreaker is a shared account by 3 of us. We say "whatever reason because they were literally listed and we didn't feel like posting each and every detail ohh venerable wisebutt.
here's scenario
So let's see if we understand this correct. It's still a 2v1, the killer had the 3rd at their mercy but chose not to "for whatever reason" hook, got the 4th, lost the 3rd due to incompetence or stupidity depending on what you want to call it (as the killer had that one at their mercy previously) and was bled out, which then causes survivors to complain about the 4k and people who then try to shift all the blame onto them due to not playing how the killer wanted...we'll let you think on how many mistakes are here and if you want us to actually explain everything but personally I'd want a drink first (probably the other 2 as well).
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You're not slugging to finish the game, you're slugging to drag it out. If you hooked that survivor, you'd be finishing the game.
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That's a lot of assumptions/unspecified premises for this little text.
First up: Survivors are not a team. Proof: MMR isn't distributed on a teambasis, no seeing perks beforehand, no communication, developer intent (check out Steam storepage) - the thing you criticize is stated as a possible strategy. Survivors can either cooperate with the others or be selfish.
Hiding is not an inherently bad move even what the team is concerned with. Example: 2 gens done. 2 hooks total, on the same guy. If he does anything other than hide (until he absolutely has to help) but instead gets himself killed by showing his face, I am going to ask him post-game why he threw the game. I don't see any reason why that would suddenly go obsolete in endgame. You want to kill, they want to survive. The role isn't called mechanic, medic or roadrunner.
There can be multiple reasons why you didn't see a particular survivor. From you hard-tunneling over their mates playing too aggressively/carelessly to them not taking chase when necessary. Even the last part doesn't mean too much in a vaccum as you probably could and should ignore that chase anyway. It's not that obvious at all unless they run a build like urban evasion + pre-nerf distortion. I just don't trust your judgement on the happenings at any given moment. I don't deny your scenario never happens though, and there are a lot of bad/immersed gamers, but it is weird to me how a (perceived) playstyle of a specific survivor is justification for being compelled to prolong the game by roughly 50%. You wanna kill them all for fulfillment? Just say so. Stop pushing an alibi-justification. If anything you should be shitting on the matchmaking for matching you with these useless hiders, right?
And since you ask specifically about your question as if you had never been in this situation as a survivor, I ignored it because it is not a good one. Clearly, it is playing the game. The issue is the killer is the only one left "playing". The survivor is reduced to one choice a minute while the slug questions themselves why they even play this game. Essentially, all the choices lie with the killer and there are no more stakes anymore. No choices, no stakes - not much of a game, is it?
The purpose of these 4K-slug threads isn't to convince anyone to change their playstyle but for Bhvr to change the game so 4min of nothing isn't possible to begin with. I don't fault you for 4k-slugging but it shouldn't be part of the game to this extent and I will judge you for it. (Just for the record: If you see the 4th as you down the 3rd you can have a grace period, I don't care, don't want to discuss this here.)
Now you tell me why a single survivor is worth >4min and why the slug deserves to be kept in that game.
Rulebreaker don't know yet. We'll see.
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I'm just saying that slugging wastes 4min while looking for the last survivor, that's the bit survivors don't like, wasting time when they could kill 3rd. Killers don't like the bit where they have to look for 2 hiding survivors wasting time. Depends how badly the killer wants the 4k if they want to wait it out or try looking for them and getting the match over with quicker. It's not great but at that point if killer wants the 4k and survivors want the hatch then it's a stand off that both sides have to endure. Pointless hiding if killer is that determined to wait it out tho. This point to this post I believe was due to survivors complaining of killers slugging the 3rd for the 4k because they know the 4th is hiding so need time to find them. Is it an exaggerated problem? I would say so especially when killers slug for 4min and not wait it out
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The only time I'll mass slug is to finish the game.
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But you don't understand. Killers trying to secure their win are evil and survivors who hold games hostage until the server shuts down are just trying to survive. Even though they die when the server shuts down. Only one side is allowed to be upset when their time is wasted because reasons.
If it wasn't for how miserably the win conditions are defined in this game, I feel like people would have a bit more empathy for the other side in this situation. As it stands, survivors will always bemoan that "3 kills is a win, anything more is just being greedy" while killers will complain that "Survivors refuse to accept defeat since they're not dead yet."
Both issues would be fixed if the hatch was changed to a scenario where neither side could stall and the fate of the 4th would be decided by earning it rather than just chance. But unfortunately everyone would rather blame each other than admit the scenario is fueled by both sides being stubborn.
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Exactly what I been saying lol I get it that survivors want to escape if possible and as hatch is part of the game and they prepare for it. But killers want 4k if it's possible so hatch being the way it is, they prepare for it. Killers don't want to wait out the game looking for hidden survivors, like survivors don't to be slugged while killer looks for 4th.
The main issue recently seems to be directed at slugging for the 4k not hiding until server ends which are both related to the hatch. I can openly say as killer I will be as stubborn as the survivors and wait it out to get the 4k because at that point waiting for the hatch that will never appear is pointless. But doing that "checkmate" move really does get people worked up.
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i thought Chess Merchant was very boring to vs. exactly because matches were prolonged into oblivion this way, how exactly does basekit UB for last 2 survs change anything for the better?
- it will unnecessarily prolong matches, especially in cases when there are 2+ gens remaining and 3-4gen has been established
- it will make RNG factor even more prominent in matches.
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Only if killers continue to slug for the 4k despite basekit UB. Which would make it exactly the same as it already is.
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Came back to do some event challenges. Have been bled out or slugged for 2+ minutes in 5/6 games. Definitely doesn't happen a lot. Definitely overblown. I'm currently sitting here being bled out by a Pig on RPD.
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Only now killers that don't slug for the 4k are going to suffer, and unhookable squads are going to be impossible to deal with.
And before you say 'oh that's rare'…remember the Boil Over buff patch?
Shudders.
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Hook the third survivor because I don't slug for the 4k
Survivor never gets to use their basekit UB
Game is not prolonged any more than it would without basekit UB
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How do you hook a survivor with Boil Over who sits up in the (not going to specify for obvious reasons) on Ormond with Boil Over?
Previously, you'd just slug them.
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They added a hook in the place you're talking about, there isn't anywhere on Ormond where you can't get to a hook even with Boil over
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They did? I'll have to check but I'm pretty sure they didn't. Not going into details but it's a back room in main structure where, if you have BO, you absolutely cannot be hooked, especially if there's a bodyblock.
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They've been doing a really good job of putting second floor hooks in buildings that used to be unhookable
It's the two rooms over the bar, right? Next to the long balcony?
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Yeah. Huh, was not aware they fixed that. I'll have to check the DDS and Asylum spot (back rooms of main structure and unhookable spot between the double lockers if you go down just right respectively).
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what whe? XD youre alone bro
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how is it dragging out ?? he is gonna die soon or sooner, that one slugged is not left to bleed out but to not let last one escape. how is it dragging out
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so you're accusing me of assumptions but then youre the one that is assuming things.
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Because a bleed-out takes 4 minutes, versus a hook stage taking 70 seconds + Allowing the survivor to end the game early. You're literally stalling for time.
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Ya know we were expecting some idiotic ranting...not sure whether to be proud or disappointed
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What am I assuming? I explained my claim.
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Well to be honest I think people are wishing I just slugged them for the 4k now lol when 2 go into hiding I just wait it out and they eventually come out of hiding or they both die when server ends. Problem solved, they don't get slugged and I get my 4k even if it it takes longer than it should. Compare that to 4min bleed out... I know what I would prefer as a survivor.
1 match there was a 2 person swf left, they both were saying they knew they couldn't win so wanted to hide until server ends "to be annoying". With this sort of attitude is there really any wonder why people slug and don't care if it's wasting survivors time? 🤷♂️ Not annoying to me because I had full intentions of waiting it out anyway and I got my 4k.
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With this sort of attitude is there really any wonder why people slug and don't care if it's wasting survivors time?This is just a chicken and egg scenario on what came first. You can say that you are slugging because otherwise they hide out, and the survivors can say they hide out because the killer is going to slug.
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That doesn't make sense, because the key difference is the killer slugs for 4min to achieve 4k while these survivors that hide for a lot longer "to be annoying" knowing it's certain death if the killer waits it out. Regardless of who started it, not slugging and waiting it out seems to work fine. They can hide as long as they like and not be slugged. Still check mate because killer will get 4k in the end if they really want it.
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Do you expect empathy from survivors for the plight of the killer main when they advocate for anti-camp, tunnel or slug measures?
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Not at all, it's survivors that have the biggest issue with being slugged for the 4k and any type of slugging. I'm just saying they should be grateful the killer is slugging them for 4min instead of doing what I do which is not slug and wait it out.
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You are gaming the system, not actually playing PvP. You understand that, right?
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So when there's two survivors left, you purposefully stop playing?
Are you just fishing to get banned?
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slugging for 4k is literally a problem forced by another problem, decision to punish it literally means full ignorance for the absolute RNG game aspect called hatch. Hatch was and will always will be the #1 and biggest reason why killers slug for 4k
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And deciding to slug for a 4k because of hatch is an ego problem.
The same could be said about teabagging by exits but that can be ended in a max of 5.4 seconds with 2 basic attacks so there's less of an urgent need to address it.
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