What if you could pre-sabotage hooks?

SWFs would turn areas of the map into hook deadzones, just 99 every hook in the area then pop them when the killer approaches. It was also less viable for solos, since the base sabo time was longer so the 99ing was pretty much mandatory to get any use out of it.

That said, why would you want to give more punishment for hooking when slugging is such a hot topic?

Mechanical changes that far need to consider more than just survivor fun. Remember that everything fun about a save for survivors is generally obnoxious for the killer, especially since its denying their progress toward their objective. Every sabo or pallet/flashlight/flashbang save is kinda like getting hit with a full power pop or pain res.

The reason I brought up slugging is the "why" of why more and more killers feel the need to do it. That objective denial paired with disincentives for hooking in multiple scenarios is why so many killers have been adopting the strategy. Both sides have to be considered carefully when it comes to mechanics like that, just like how pop and pain res have gotten nerfed due to similar annoyance from the survivor side.

In general, objective denial is a hard concept to balance properly, and BHVR's track record isn't exactly great concerning it for either side.

As someone who is photophobic, I would absolutely hate any more blinds than are already in the game as it is. Chem trap would also be a bad idea since it would make it take longer for the killer to leave the hook area, giving more excuse for people to proxy camp.

As long as the effect on hook isn't "the hook breaks and the survivor wasn't actually hooked at all" (which would suuuck) I wouldn't mind a perk or two with this type of gimmick, but sabotage doesn't need to change imo.

Hmm…

Blindness would be interesting to disorient the killer, but I'd be concerned about the lowest level of play. Might counter too many aura perks, but I think it could be cool to test. Aura reveal could work as a sort of kindred-esque perk to show what general direction the killer heads in after the hook.

Could also try some more funky effects, like the hearing debuff that the severed ear (hag add-on) gives, same as what you hear for a bit after a flashbang. Or the survivor on hook getting extra hook time… but that stacking with reassurance/cama could be a concern.

The issue you run into is the impact in both a mechanical sense and an enjoyment one. Survivor and killer objectives and progress are obviously at odds throughout the match, so obviously something good for one is going to be bad for the other. The reason why objective denial is such a tight rope to walk is because the enjoyment factor takes a direct hit, so regardless of a mechanic's impact, it's going to feel bad for the other side.

Similarly, even if it's not directly annoying, the actual impact needs to be measured carefully vs the time/efficiency/agency of the opponent. For example the killer's time is often more directly valuable than the survivor's due to the 1v4 nature of the game. Similarly, survivors are often punished for the misplays of their teammates through no fault of their own. All of these factors can cause good ideas to become bad ones if all of the factors aren't carefully considered.

In regards to modifying how sabo works in ways like you were considering, I think you would need to make things smaller scale and more subtle instead. If you did something like, say, plant a "tracking device" on the hook (kinda like a localized Kindred, or wire tap) could work, but it would have to have a relatively low impact to not incentivize the killer to avoid hooks outright.

The reason I would use wire tap's effect as an example is because there would be a lot of room to balance and to adjust its strength (radius, duration, etc) while it would also be an effect that wouldn't directly annoy the opponent (without knowing it is present they wouldn't know their aura is revealed) and their counterplay to it would be to avoid staying in the direct area of a recent (un)hook depending on how and when it is applied.

Personally I don't necessarily want something like that in the game (again, I'm just generally against objective denial as its a concept the game suffers more than benefits from) but I would take that kind of approach to it. Subtle and simple unfortunately is not very popular with the game's community (unless it benefits them personally ofc) so it would either become another tool for one side to abuse, another excuse for unsavory playstyles, be considered "too weak to be meta," or just directly detract from either side's ability to enjoy the game. It would basically be a mechanic for youtube content creators to make silly videos while hurting the game more than it helps.

Appreciate you trying to get the POV of killers when making your suggestion. The forum would be a lot healthier if more people did this.

I like your idea. Like, survivors can pre-sabo hooks, and then killer gets a negative effect when hooking on these hooks, but it would not destroy the hook entirely like current sabo. I play both sides and I can see it being fun for both sides. The effect should be powerful because survivors have to spend time away from gens. Something like a 5 sec stun + movement penalty for 30 sec. Or even an effect like "survivors can unhook themselves from the sabotaged hook after 15 sec".

There is one serious and unfortunate problem with your suggestion though, and it's that in the current state of the game, it will encourage even more slugging & tunneling. I don't think we should ever punish the killer for hooking people, but currently, sabo does exactly that, because someone going for 12-hook has 4x more chance to be affected than someone who tunnels and goes for 3. Fundamentally I consider this to be an issue with tunneling & slugging per-se, not with sabo or your suggestion, but knowing BHVR they won't get rid of these "tactics" before 2030, and until then, your idea would do more harm than good.

how do you like killer perks like dead man switch, deadlock, corrupt intervention and grim embrace that just block gens and remove survivor objective? i dislike playing against these builds as survivor because they remove objective from the survivor.

They're not healthy either? I used Pop and PR as reference points for survivor in my comparison. In general I'm against almost everything that speeds up or slows down gens in terms of loadouts, since the variance in that category alone makes gens anywhere from way too fast to way too slow. Time Crunch is one of the biggest enemies of balance in this game, as time efficacy will vary wildly between builds/killer powers/SWF/etc.

Edit: I guess you could put my stance as "necessary evils due to other necessary evils due to oth-"

Oh please no you just made me think of

Never experienced it myself but I can only imagine.

Blast mine would be a fun inclusion. Would allow for some easy unhooks.

It is not your problem that BHVR allows tunneling/slugging to be so game-defining that any suggestion has to contain some form of anti-tunnel or anti-slug nowadays to be viable.

Many killers are ALREADY slugging/tunneling every game and your buffed sabo wouldn't change anything to the situation. At some point we just have to assume BHVR will eventually make tunneling less important in basegame instead of twisting the whole game around it.

hooking aspect is already in the most endangered spot it's ever been, i wouldn't like to see another feature that would spit on it's grave

Congrats, you just created another reason to slug people.