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Chucky reached lowest killrate i've ever seen on NL
I'm not fan of speculating on strengh of something only by stats, and I don't believe Chucky is that bad right now (he is definately bad right now, but not to this degree), but it's sad case anyway.
2024 was the year, which will remind me for a long time that killer can be completely destroyed in one day, if there will be enough complains, and it literally keeps me off investing my time into any killer right now.
Comments
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Playing a casual sandbox is an investment now…
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As expected, the Freddy treatment hit him hard.
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chucky got pig treatment.
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That what happens when you nerf mid tier killer to ground. But killers like Blight, Nurse, Spirit totally fine!
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Chucky is last, sure, but Vecna is in first. Sure he needs nerfs, right?
Also, Skull Merchant is ahead of Spirit. Sure she is stronger than Spirit, right?
Nightlight stats mean nothing
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have you considered survivors dont like losing so a killer being borderline useless is actually good for the game
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Eeh, I think his changes have more in common with Freddy's more than Pig's.
Both had some unique elements of their power almost removed (Dream Transition/Scamper) and recieved changes to their anti-loop as buffs.
And then they got their anti-loop nerfed, for a.... reason I guess.
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and what about Chucky players, who don't like losing?
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I don't think much can be learned from 400 or so games, tbh.
But I am still a little bit sad that BHVR couldn't find a way to make OG release Chucky work. He's not currently super weak or anything, I'm just not a huge fan of this nerfed second iteration of his power. He lost a lot of his character when they changed him and his scamper feels mostly useless now.
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These stats are based on such a low sample size, it's ridiculous to draw any conclusions from them. Unfortunately, BHVR refuses to provide any data other than a few very selective releases once in a blue moon.
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They easily could, but they won't because they worry too much about player criticism about whether this killer or that killer is OP or too weak, or whether the game is too killer-sided or survivor-sided.
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Touche :)
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If they don't want to lose they can get friends in a lobby and 4 man. If you play solo q you willingly accept the fact that a lot of the times your randoms get 4k'd is because of their own skill.
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Then it takes a bunch of Nurse and Blight mains to let all survivors escape just to "balance" the stats in their favour to avoid future nerfs
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You can't see the little s**t lol. That's his strength.
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That's the lowest you've ever seen? Billy used to be at about 46% for a time and there others that were even worse.
I agree though that they really went too hard on Chucky. I loved him when he was first released and I even bought the Tiffany skin but then they removed his flicks, which already sucked most of the fun out for me. It was good that they did something about the whole scamper into hit thing but with so little complexity to what he could do, I feel like they already had maneuvered themselves into a dead end with Chucky.
Either his power has a low cooldown so that you can use it all the time and hopefully get hits from that or his cooldown is too high and they also lower his speed, so that he barely has any way to use his power. He's not the worst (3rd person on a small killer will naturally give him some slight advantage) but he is not in a good spot at all.
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I watch for NL stats only for last 1,5-2 years honestly, so yeah, probably there were lower number back in the days.
I think he was in a perfect state this week before this nerf. 12 second and nerfed Rat Poison were literally all he was needed to be in a perfect state. It's 4,4 killer without any form of map pressure, mobility, build-in slowdown, build-in info, nothing, literally nothing except good chase. And they removed even that, lol. AND add 2 additional seconds on top of it. Just spawn survivors in the exit gates against him at this point.0 -
Surely him dropping 8% kill rate means nothing, right?
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Well the overall killer average there is 56.46%, and nurse is 56.72% blight is 61.13% and spirit is 54.45%
So are you suggesting that literally every single killer in the game needs a nerf other than:
- Huntress
- Trapper
- Knight
- Ghost Face
- Trickster
- Chucky
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Yes
Skull Merchant stronger than Spirit no?
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DBD Forums, i admit it. Chucky has been nerfed too much.
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It's because they nerfed his dash speed into the ground, like overkill into the ground, he's barely faster than a survivor running hope in end game. This has made a once A-tier killer plummet from grace. No doubt all the survivor mains who couldn't figure out how to counter him are rejoicing while those who could already counter him smirked and went "he's GG EZ now".
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Low kill rate can simply mean killer is difficult to play.
High killrate can simply be, because they are soloQ/noob stomper. Or killer is easier to play as than against, which was the case for skully.
Well, some survivors liked to claim Chucky is very easy killer to play as and near impossible for soloQ to win against, so what can be a reason for low kill rates? It's because killer with low map pressure got his chase nerfed…
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This content has been removed.
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BHVR's stats are pretty pointless when they don't factor in DC's. Chucky is one of the top Killers that players DC from. If I'm in SoloQ and it's a Chucky, someone DC's. If I pick Chucky to play Killer, Survs DC. The ones that stick out the match are usually SWF.
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As a console player, I think Chucky is really difficult to play well, so I think that has an impact on the lower kill rate. I find him unplayable without Rat Poison, and even with that, I think survivors dodge the Slice 'n' Dice pretty well. I think they might need to design a new power for him if they can't find the sweet spot for Slice 'n' Dice.
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They simply could give out the numbers with DC and without DC.
Just a simple spreadsheet, no fancy designed template, just a plain old spreadsheet.
They say the numbers are constantly monitored. So it shouldn't be to hard to gave us the killrate numbers.
But they don't give out the actual numbers. Mandy say because they haven't changed. On the other hand the DBD community constantly asks for these numbers on X, Reddit, Steam Forums and this Forum.
If the numbers haven't changed, that would mean that BHVR is doing a good job and the game is at least staying consistent. So one more reason to publish the numbers.
So BHVR is ignoring the wishes of its community, or the numbers would shock the community, or they don't have the numbers on hand and would have to work them out first.
Whichever way you look at it, as is so often the case, it doesn't shed a good light on BHVR.0 -
I mean, 2024 was the year in which everything seemed to be about butchering killers. Chucky took some patches and time while SM took just one day. I still do not understand most ofthe nerfs applied to him.
The pallet scamper was okay, it gave free hits. But then they removed the window scamper, which was completely fine, without saying anything nor applying it in the PTB.
Then we see the rat poison issue, and instead of reworking the add-on, as it should have been, they went on to nerf the add-on, which is still busted, and make his dash ridiculously slow, which nobody asked for.
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Chucky is hard to balance.
I would stomp every match as a chucky, and chucky would stomp my lobby if I was survivior.
Now chucky gets stomped hard. I had a match against chucky at a tombstone house, farm map and all he did was 3 hooks (4k hour chucky)
Also, I didn't touch him since speed change, I refuse to play nerfed version of him.
It was miserable to play against chucky, now it's miserable to play as chucky.
I think slice n dice speech change to 8m/s was too much.
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I don't understand why you think it's "pointless" without disconnects included in the stats.
Given that survivors are generally more likely to disconnect, even by accident, and an early disconnect will usually mean the game is over already. So including disconnects is only going to show a higher kill rate across the board.
Now, including disconnects does show what the player base experiences as far as kill rates, so that might be interesting to see.
But I didn't think the current way they do it is "useless" by any means. The devs are correct to not balance around disconnect kill rates either, which is why they throw them out.
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Sample size and reporting bias. 400 Chucky games are probably happening worldwide as a I type this.
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>it's lowest killrate I have ever seen on NL
>reporting bias
ok buddy
What about "sample size", nobody said you shoud take NL stats as the only truth, but you know, statistics as a science have such thing: smaller sample size quite often reflects the bigger picture.
And NL shows it pretty often, last official stats on most popular perks showed 9/10 same perks on both sides that we saw on NL.2 -
I think Hens was on the money, I think Chucky needs his initial S+D acceleration buffed and his cooldown reduced, then I think he's fine.
The longer duration but slower speed of his S+D combines together to make his acceleration feel quite bad. He goes from 3.652m/s speed when hes charging S&D to his max speed over the duration, but the acceleration occurs st the points of the duration at 25% to 100% over this time.
On his previous version this was 3.652m/s to 10m/s over a 1.2s (or 0.3 - 1.2). This gives an acceleration of 7.083m/s².
His new version goes from 3.652m/s to 8m/s over 1.8s (or 0.45 - 1.8). This gives an acceleration of 3.221m/s².
You can see, not only is your top speed slower, you start accelerating later and the rate your speed builds is also halfed as well, which all combines together to make him feel very sluggish.
The point of the nerf was to give more chance for counter play by not having him race around tiles as fast, for the benefit of extra distance. So we can't buff that too much... so I would gambit the following changes:
- Change acceleration action times to 20% - 80% (0.36s - 1.44s). This gives an acceleration of 4.026m/s².
- EDIT: change upper bound to 70%. (0.36s - 1.26s). This gives an acceleration of 4.831m/s². See graphs below.
- Reduce his cooldown back to 12s.
This allows him to reach his top speed sooner, still a nerf to his guaranteed hit flicks and survivors get their window to reach safety, but he gets to use them more often, and he has more control.
When combined with the 8.4.0 buff of scamper from 1.3s to 1s, I think Chucky doesn't feel quite so encumbered and the extra control makes his scamper actually feature in his kit.
Holding W against him (which people do a lot cause he is 4.4) no longer works cause his distance on S&D is quite insane... and his cooldown isn't so punishing where he's spending so much time walking.
There will probably be additonal tweaks to the numbers needed, but I think this would be a good start.
Post edited by UndeddJester on3 -
It was really interesting to read!
But as I said many times, imo he was perfect at 8.4.0, there is no need to reinvent the wheel and tweak number for another year or so. Maybe if they gonna give him mobility, map pressure, 4.6, build-in slowdown or info, then yeah, we can discuss making S&D weaker. But currently chase is the only thing he has, so it MUST be strong enough AT LEAST to warrant him being 4,4.1 -
Right now: Chucky last, Skull merchant in 24th (out of 38 killers), ahead of Spirit, Wesker, Executioner and Artist.
If you believe Chucky's nerf was too much or that he is a weak killer then you have to agree that SM is stronger than those.0 -
400 games, and almost half of those, he's getting 0-1 kills? I still don't like it. I think it does say something.
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Who would've thought that a killer who was crazy overrated even at his strongest would be dead upon nerfing?
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Do you think that's a concern of good survivors as well?
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Not even. They still consider him too strong.
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I'm not sure if I've ever landed a Slice n' Dice attack with him. I'm really not. It's THAT bad, playing him on console.
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Well, I will admit... that balancewise, I can't really argue with 8.4.0.
The only reason I prefer to go halfway, was the slightly slower speed does make him easier to control on console, and does also make using his scamper during slice and dice easier and also viable... making it an actual tangible part of his kit you kight use... rather than what used to happen in 8.4.0 and below, where no one ever scampered and instead went for flicks at tiles instead because flicks was always better...
However, that is more a personal preference for me being unable to turn fast on console and wanting morr scampers, rather than it actually being a problem... so yes 8.4.0 would be fine as well I believe 😅
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Bruh, I recently tried Bird Mommy on gamepad and I honestly immediately got huge respect to all console players, because it's borderline unplayable for me. Survivors are even easier on gamepad, but killers… I probably would never play killers, if I were console player.
So yeah, now I understand better the way you are thinking.3 -
Hehehe yeah killer can be rough... I like Artist, shes fun to play. You can usually make up aim on controller by using the left analogue stick to strafe into shots. You can't flick like PC players can, but you can make most things work with practise... even killers like Oni and Billy you can near miss and a lot of times still get a hit.
I genuinely believe one of the hardest killers to play against decent survivors is Legion actually... because the one thing you are truly vulnerable to on controller is spin techs... now you can usually handle it if you suspect a spin tech, by just stopping in place and let them turn back into you... this fine most of the time... but on Legion your Feral Frenzy doesn't reach as far as you think... so most of the time if you're trying to chain, by the time you catch up to survivors, you don't have much time left... so you have to swing... and if you get spun teched... you lost your chain, lost the survivor you injured and now have to chase this full HP survivor as a literal got nothing for anti look m1 killer...
You can take perks or add-ons to help you on mist killers... but on Legion youre always missing SOMETHING really badly... You've basically got to m2 hit and drop immediately from power 80% of the time and hope there is no pallet nearby 😭😭😭😭
On a side note, I'm changing my suggestion to 70% for the acceleration upper bound. When I graphed it out I get this with 70%:
Where's 80% looked like this:
Apologies for phone screenshots... I cba to e-mail these to myself xD
Important detail is although the distance covered is smaller the acceleration time is similar with 70%, so he'll reach his speed in comparable time to his old version
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He needs to be reverted back to launch Chucky. He was fine then.
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Devs: hey guys, let's just completely change character without any testing in one day
Meanwhile player on forum trying to find good numbers:now you can usually handle it if you suspect a spin tech, by just stopping in place and let them turn back into you...
This is how I played back in the days on mobile 😭
I will test Legion with gamepad, I honestly sometimes get spinned even on keybord. Not often, but happens. No doubt I will miss every Frenzy hit1 -
Big respect if you can make artist work on her with gamepad it is such a filter for so many
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If you want some pure pain try Singularity with one. Also Trickster used to be impossible with a controller, but thankfully they removed the recoil. Neither are fun to play imo, clunky and unresponsive to me.
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I will try it with bots, I think there is no point even go in public match on Singularity with gamepad for the first time
I already feel this pain :D
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Let's be real, DCing "by accident" is incredibly low, stating otherwise is a fallacy made to try and refute what's actually happening. There are DC's that happen because of BHVR's servers, but that also is low. The majority of DCing, is from Survs placed in miserable matches or Killers placed in matches outside their skill set.
The reason that the Killrates mean nothing without the DC's, is because as I said, SWF likely don't DC because they stick out the match with friends, most of their games count towards stats. SoloQ has people DCing the majority of games, so the stats for SoloQ are completely skewed since SoloQ Survs stay in matches that are heading towards a win, not matches where they are being slugged/camped/tunneled…. which is on the rise.
BHVR could release completely separate stats of DC rates between SoloQ and SWF vs what Killers. They wouldn't do that though, as the numbers for SoloQ would be astronomical, which is why we have DC penalty times for a casual party game, that go from 15 minutes to +6 hours between two DC's and then 24hrs. You don't have DC penalties that severe unless a good portion of the playerbase was DCing.
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