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"Finesse" Should be Toned Down
I love Lara and I play as her a lot, but as I play killer a lot as well and know how perks feel on both sides, I never bring Finesse. That perk just feels so extremely annoying. It's not necessarily "overpowered," per say, but I feel it should drop down a bit. Yeah, it doesn't work when injured, but it can protect you from the injury in the first place.
Comments
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I think Finesse is okay, it's more Lithe being the issue IMHO. Too overused and it over-buffs bad Loopers.
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The two together primarily suck the most.
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Finesse itself is fine. You have to be healthy to use it which is a massive drawback in current DBD. Nor is it even meta either, since it's a dead perk slot if you get tunneled (since you cant be healed).
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I dont think he it needs anything truthfully. I think bhvr needs to allow for powerful perks on both sides. That's what makes the game fun. When more than half the perks suck or are useless which currently is the issue, than that is a problem.
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As I said, it isn't OP, but against M1 killers, Finesse can be extremely powerful, especially with Lithe. And with the tunnel wasting the perk, it's the same with a lot of killer perks: Ruin is still very powerful, but if the Hex is found early on, you wasted a perk slot.
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I think they do need to balance perk strength and then maybe strengthen both sides a bit to try to prevent "metas," allowing games to be more unique. With powerful perks, you keep seeing things like Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance or Finesse every game. You have to admit that Finesse is at least on the higher end of survivor perks; it really has saved a lot of hits when I've been killer.
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Every chase perks are op against m1 killers, they are m1 killers, they already will struggle to catch a good survivor even without finesse, finesse has the potential to be the most op perk in the game, but it only works healthy, which is the reason the perk is balanced
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Eh. Finesse is strong, but I think it's fine with the 2 restrictions it has.
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True about M1s sucking against many perks, and that supports my point: It makes M1 killers even harder to be. They got to make more perks like Aftercare (which reveals each other auras after healing/saving someone or you getting saved/healed), which connect people together more instead of just making single people stronger.
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Finesse needs to br an Exhaustion perk. This perk just exists to ruin m1 killers.
Seriously, play m1 against 4 finesse on an open level/swf and you'll spend the entire game getting nothing.
Survivors need more good perks, but I don't like this one
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Of course I stand up for killers, but it's not like I never defend survivors either. You just don't see it, because you are always complaining about killers…
deep down you always want a nerf for the survivors
not really, I am happy with current state of SWF and I suggested several buffs for soloQ in past.
And again, what exactly is double standard? Cmon, you said it… Both sides get nerfs and buffs. There are also many people complaining on both sides, btw you are one of the loud ones from survivors…
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I have enough of what I saw in this post, well, keep defending the killers, because you killer mains hate losing like there is no tomorrow
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So you can't find any double standard, so you just try to generalize everything….
Unlike you I defend both sides.
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Unless you get a speed boost after Finessing like a Lithe, sure.
Otherwise, no. I view Finesse as a weaker form of Spine Chill — especially with the restrictions of needing to be healthy and the questionable hits you get through the windows due to latency and ping.
I loved Spine Chill back in the day and Finesse is not as good as old Spine Chill without a doubt - Finesse came into meta due to the death of the vault speed build with Spine Chill's nerf.
I don't use Finesse that much in all honesty and I'm not really a Lithe user (I prefer the 99% Sprint Burst) but regardless I don't think Finesse needs a nerf and it's used a lot due to its synergy with Dramaturgy, Sprint Burst (I use it on my Ace), and Lithe. It's just a chase synergy too, doesn't do anything other than extend chase.
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I agree. It hurts more than it helps, in the fact that it hurts M1s while doing nothing against stronger killers.
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Dude, so many survivors keep doing the go-next thing because they hate losing. Whenever I get a strong start, many just kill themselves because they know they have no way to win. It's different for killers in the fact that when a killer DCs, it allows everyone to go to the next round, while when a survivor just kills themselves, it hurts the entire game.
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There needs to be less perks that just try to extend chase and instead work with the entire team, like Aftercare. Just strengthening single survivors makes being an M1 harder while also boring the other survivors as they just sit on the gens.
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But you can't use an Exhaustion Perk after using another one, and to my knowledge the timings don't stack. If they are stacking in a way that creates a Finesse into a Lithe, that's likely not intentional and could even be a glitch with these two perks together or Exhaustion not working.
Speaking as someone who plays several M1s, and is learning a few of the weaker ones to round myself out (former M2 Main, I got bored of my chases being less exciting on M2s and switched more to M1s), I don't have that much issue catching people with chase perks even as low mobile M1s, as long as I also run a chase perk or I focus on my fundamentals. Admittedly, I could use more mindgaming practice as I am not used to it, but even as someone like Ghostface who I am new to, I have little issue. Finesse doesn't help much when you herd someone into a Trapper trap at the right vault. And I don't have trouble even with Wraith if I just use my power correctly. At best, Finesse adds maybe a few seconds, not much else, and at worst it encourages Survivors to overuse vaults and block them.
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Yes, let's nerf every perk that gives survivors even the slightest chance in a killer sided game. It's not like killers are busted already with over powered abilities and add ons. No, of course not….(sarcasm) Killers of course get a fast vault perk but not survivors?
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So true constant nerfs on survivors stuff is irritating
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Finesse was released just this year. That is a Survivor fast vault perk, my friend.
Several Killer things have been nerfed in the past year or Survivor things added to counter. Skull Merchant, Chucky, all strong generator perks, certain combinations like Weave+Franklins that caused issues, Midwich the most Killer sided map was reworked, perks to counter certain Killer strategies, etc.
There's also the fact an anti 3gen was added, 10 extra hook seconds, much needed AFC, many niche perks to combat certain playstyles, etc. It simply isn't accurate that Survivors have gotten nothing but nerfs, and Killers nothing but buffs, friend. :)2 -
I mean if they fixed fast vaults and remove medium vaults in the first place, they wouldnt have to bring a niche perk like finesse .
Like why is ok for killers to have op perk combos but even niche situational one on survivor is qq. Seriously whats next nerf inner strength?
If you hate lithe run some of the anti exhaustion perks. Killers already has the best base perk in the game vpn abusing and garbage internet to get undeserved hits.
Post edited by buggybug on2 -
Im fully agree dear, especially with high ping they can hit from miles that's why finesse is good against that, and yeah they can run exhaustion perks/addons too as counter, but they won't cuz all they can run is pain res/dms/pop/corrupt/deadlock so survivors won't repair gens like at all because killers can't lose like money on the line
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these are just tiny buffs (for they are QoL not buffs) to survivors killers get much bigger buffs
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I dunno, it seems the limitations on this perk are fine. It's quite hard to set it up that the vault you actually need the 20% is the one you actually get it on...
Like yeah, you can force it, but most of the time I use it, any vault I use it on, I would have made the vault anyway by just runnung slightly sooner; in most cases I would have actually wanted/needed it on the 3rd loop or so to get genuine value...
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Place a Trapper trap, they just run to the next loop if they see you place one down. And yeah, if you heard them into one that they don't know, the perk doesn't matter, but none do in that circumstance. Because you can cut off the perk in certain circumstances, it's not like Finesse is weak overall. It can really be painful if used in the right ways.
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Dude, the survivors are still quite strong at the moment. And VPN honestly makes the game frustrating and annoying, not better. Only tryhards do that, if at all. I don't care about getting 4ks (I never tunnel or camp), I just want the game to be a little more fun because too many go too far on their playstyles, and some perks like Finesse can get extremely annoying at times.
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Dude, survivors have gotten quite a lot of buffs and killers many nerfs in recent years: Basekit BT and speed; 10 extra hook seconds, stronger HUD; limited damaging.
Yes, I want perks like Pain Res to be removed, but still, survivors have to appreciate what they've gotten for a bit. Survivors use to have been absurdly overpowered years ago, and they still are strong if they play right against tunnelers and campers, but the overall weakening is probably what makes them frustrated, despite all the other buffs.1 -
Dude, you REALLY had to post that? Survivors are still extremely strong if they play right against tunnelers and campers, and no, I don't want that to happen.
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first let's do something about the ping on the killer side, because hits two or three meters from the window are what's really annoying
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Lmao this being fixed would help balance so much rn, like it's insane how much lag affects things in this game
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Not entirely the killers' fault. If survivors have bad ping, they get their punishment. Besides, it can actually go in the survivors' side too, at times.
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That also isn't true. Many, many, many Killer buffs this year have also been QoL buffs or tweaks, teeny tiny buffs. Only Killers that REALLY needed an update, like Freddy and Myers, have been buffed to any major degree everyone else has been QoL, minor adjustments, or some basekitting of necessary addons to help improve how the character plays. And as I previously stated, many Killers (Dracula, Chucky, Knight, Wesker, Onryo, Skull Merchant) have all been nerfed or tweaked down for being too strong.
Please don't make this situation us vs. them, both Survivors and Killers get buffs and nerfs in equal measure. The issue is 100% not that Killers all get buffs and Survivors only ever get nerfs. In fact there's still a few Killers that could use some serious updates, QoL, and yes… actual buffs.
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I agree. I do not try to do the Killers vs. Survivors things. I only point it out when survivors go complaining that all killers are too strong, or vice versa. 😑 I'm a bit of a hypocrite now, though, but I will say that survivors can still win if they play it right against tunneling killers if skill is equal. Too many survivors complain about it, while the devs are doing whatever they can to stop it. However, I do entirely go against tunneling and camping.
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Can confirm @notyarbllewe it's very possible for Survs to still win, I do it just fine when I play Survivor as long as the teamwork is on point. The issue is the art of being a SoloQ Survivor has been lost, I don't meet many good ones and when I do find one I usually pitch a friend request. It's very hard to SoloQ (Killer is always solo and a solo Surv is weaker than any Killer). But if your skill is about equal to everyone else in the round, it should be a pretty even 60/40 balance. Not impossible to win as Surv but tough, and a bit easier for Killer but not a guarantee.
I think tunnelling and camping are basically addressed by now. The real issue is toxic slugging.
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Survivors as a whole are still very strong, it's just the solos themselves that are the weakest. If you saw my discussion after this one, I think we need more teamwork perks over just single person strengthening ones like Finesse; it'd make the game a lot more interactive. As solo, I just about always bring Kindred as it connects the team a lot better, and there are similar perks like Aftercare.
And yeah, they really got to address the slugging now. If you did their recent survey, BHVR did ask about how annoyed you get based on people getting slugged, most specifically the number of people.
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It's quite sad you feel the need to constantly disparage people and blame KIllers for your own failings as Survivor, let alone you blame stealth Killers - which aren't all that overpowered and often are M1 only - most of all. Is a Pig really so hard for you to handle that you believe they don't need buffs?
I will never understand. I just will never understand thinking that basic M1s are too much to handle. Most people would say the opposite, I'd say the opposite. I play a decent amount of Survivor too.
Killers deserve to have buffs and tweaks equal to those that would make them feel playable, good to use, and enjoyable. Survivors also deserve those buffs and tweaks, and guess what? Both sides get them because that's what fair is. You don't deserve more tweaks or buff than is fair just because you believe the other side does not. And the other side sure doesn't deserve nerfs just because you are unable or unwilling to learn how to handle them.
I have tried so damn hard to be nice to some of the angriest Surv sided players here. I really have. Everyone here has. Yet so many of them instead continue to choose a path of anger and call people names when they didn't even instigate anything.
I really, truly do not understand such entitlement. Truly. The one thing I'll agree with them on: We need Killer bots.
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I certainly agree with all of this. I think they have done well to address only the most toxic forms of problem playstyles while also allowing tactical use mostly; the last things to look at are slugging and maybe the overuse and stacking of gen items. I guarantee a lot of calm would come if the start of a round didn't feel so genrushy from the Killer perspective, or liable to tunnel and slug from the Survivor perspective. Tactics like slugs and camping and genrush really should only be more possible towards the end of a round, not at the start, because that puts too much pressure on the other side and feels bad to play against. It breeds discontent and bad feelings, increases resentment, and drives a wedge in the community.
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