Feedback and Suggestions

Feedback and Suggestions

Lightborn Partial Rework Suggestion

Member Posts: 8,687
in Feedback and Suggestions

Lightborn exists in a sort of annoying position in this game, where it's simultaneously not all that good and also designed in a pretty unhealthy way. It's not generally good, in my opinion, for one perk to be the perfect counter to an entire class of tools your opponent can bring- that's why Distortion was nerfed, after all.

So, I was thinking about what I'd do to preserve it being useful and worth bringing while toning down that aspect of it, like what was done to Distortion, and I came up with this potential idea:

  • When a survivor tries to blind you with any means, you are immune to the screen whiting effect of the blind
  • Reveals the aura of the survivor who blinded you for 10 seconds
  • If you would be stunned by the blind, you are still stunned, but the other two effects apply

In other words, the perk would be fantastic at baiting survivors into blinding you at pallets because they still get the blind from their perspective but your ability to track them not only isn't hampered by the screen whiting effect, it's improved by the aura. However, if survivors want to get a save when you're picking someone up, that's still possible, so you have to take extra measures to prevent it.

Even then, though, you'd get clear vision and an aura, so it's still better than being hit with a flashlight save without Lightborn equipped.

Personally, I think this would push Lightborn into a position where it's no longer a perfect hard counter, but instead opens up opportunities for the killer that wouldn't be present otherwise. It'd also allow certain survivor perks like Residual Manifest and Champion of Light to function, while still giving a slight edge against them. What do you guys think?

Welcome to BHVR Forums

Please sign in to join in the discussions.
Sign In
Register

Comments

  • Member Posts: 358

    Lightborn Partial Rework Suggestion

    jesterkind

    Nope. Lightborn is mostly useless unless against 2 or more flashlights. Newer killers would be destroyed, and bully squads would have more options to harass a killer while going unpunished. Also, hooking would be hella difficult agaisnt flashie squads. So no, this would be not only unnecessary, but also detrimental to the game.

  • Member Posts: 1,359

    You’re right, but prepare to be drowned out by the very same people who wanted Distortion nerfed for its ability to completely counter its opponents’ builds with a single perk slot :p

  • Member Posts: 1,359
    SoGo

    ”People who use the tools of the game to prevent their teammates from being killed can go to hell”

    lol. Would you say the same about killers who stack 4 slowdowns against solo q?

  • Member Posts: 2,630

    Not use, but abuse. No other word fits that type of playstyle.

    And don't try to make me seem one sided, stacking 4 slowdowns on a strong killer seems wildly unnessesary to me.

  • Member Posts: 1,359

    Being altruistic is not abusive 🤦‍♂️

  • Member Posts: 1,359

    Define “spamming”.

  • Member Posts: 2,630

    Flashlight blind after every pallet, an attempt at every window, and at least 1 survivor chasing you around with a flashlight or just using BGP to ensure the only way to get a kill is by slugging. And if they manage to not kill themselves in doing so, which to be fair, not all of them are smart enough for that, a disco attempt at the exit games.

    Also attempts at flashlight clicking but that was thankfully removed after that one MCote match.

  • Member Posts: 8,687
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870436#Comment_3870436
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870329#Comment_3870329

    Lightborn is not the only counter to these things, it's just far and away the strongest because it works passively and is 100% perfect at doing it.

    Personally, I think that's questionable. I don't think Lightborn is a super high priority, don't get me wrong, but I also won't be surprised whenever it inevitably does get changed.

    So, with the changes I proposed, you'd still have all the other tools at your disposal - Franklin's, Infectious Fright, Forced Hesitation, just staring at a wall, etc - and Lightborn would still work for you because you'd get clear vision and an aura even if you make a mistake and actually drop the survivor you're picking up. That sounds like a good outcome to me.

  • Member Posts: 564

    The killer gives up a perk slot to use Lightborn. Lightborn like Shadowborn, Hubris, Hex: Two Can Play, require's the survivors to do something to the Killer to activate it, if they don't do anything to trigger it even after fiiguring it out that it's in play, the gameplay in the match shifts and adapts.

    Lightborn also is the only current way for killer's to counter Flashbang saves, Killer's can position themselves to try and avoid Flashlight saves but Flashbang's have no restrictions when it comes to a pick up save.

    Blastmine and Lightborn interacting is a great example of why this suggestion to change Lightborn so the stun goes through is bad, it sucks just outright in both feel and function, you loose alot of that aura read time because of the stun.

    Instead of asking for Lightborn to be changed or have negatives, ask for other perk's that activate off Blind's, Shadowborn/Two Can Play, to be improved and be a more usable option in builds or by themselves over Lightborn.

  • Member Posts: 8,687
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870571#Comment_3870571

    Only changing the other blind perks wouldn't address the core issue of Lightborn being a perfect counter, though. That's the main reason I think a change would be appropriate, I don't think it's especially great design to be able to passively shut off an entire class of your opponent's tools with no input or restrictions.

    I don't necessarily want to see Lightborn become a perk you have to go out of your way to activate, so I think just making it not a perfect counter anymore would be totally appropriate.

    It's not as though you're lacking in options for dealing with survivors going for saves, after all.

  • Member Posts: 128

    Of course it needs to be weakened. some people take flashlights on purpose because of tasks in books, this does not mean that all these people should wait until they come across a killer who is not afraid of flashlights. survivors do not have special abilities like killers, and one perk should not withstand many items.

  • Member Posts: 128

    I have an idea for a perk. as a killer you start the match with 1 lightborn token, after each hook you receive 1 more token. this causes you to earn salvation from blindness like a distortion from aura reading. No one should be immune with just 1 perk.

  • Member Posts: 9,513
    edited January 13
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436641/lightborn-partial-rework-suggestion

    lightborn is killer perk. it costs 1/4 of the killer build to use. distortion costs 1/16. the commitment for killer is way higher than survivor. big no to rework. i sometimes use the perk on Nurse because i do not like flashbang+background player spamming.

  • Member Posts: 8,687
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870750#Comment_3870750

    I'm not convinced that the killer role having fewer perk slots than the survivor role is a good enough justification to let a perfect counter like that exist, personally.

    Or, more accurately, I don't think it makes that situation less questionable. I think it's still completely reasonable to think about how to make the perk a little less perfect at its job, the same reasons you'd want to do that for Distortion definitely apply to Lightborn even if in a slightly lesser state.

  • Member Posts: 1,816

    So, I was thinking about what I'd do to preserve it being useful and worth bringing while toning down that aspect of it, like what was done to Distortion

    Except the part, where Distortion players were harmful for the team and Lightborn literally says "guys, go do gens, there is no point in trying".
    And I really wanna know, when you guys will stop put "=" in between ONE survivor's perk, which denied whole perks and addons category (and still does, just in more healthy way), and ONE killer's perk, which denies one item and few perks? Especially funny to see it from person, who told me "oh you can't compare killer and survivor healing perks, they are different", but somehow you can compare two perks, that do two absolutely differing things? I see, I see.
    Also suggest make perk, which whole and only point is removing blind ANIMATION on your part is wild, even for you.

    However, if survivors want to get a save when you're picking someone up, that's still possible, so you have to take extra measures to prevent it.

    It's my favourite part. Remember you took a perk, buddy? Yeah, do some work to prevent its effect. Or just stay still to activate the perk and… wow see no animation of blinding! Truly brilliant design.
    Next suggestion will be make Spirit Fury have only animation of pallet breaking, but you actually need to break a pallet after it?
    At least it was really fun to read.

  • Member Posts: 8,687
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870768#Comment_3870768

    I'm not drawing a one to one parallel, to be clear, I'm pointing to the one similarity both perks did have, which is that they are both a counter-pick that is 100% perfect and 100% passive. In general, I don't much love both of those things being true at once, even if Lightborn isn't a huge problem right now.

    As for the second part, you did bring a perk! That perk allows you to completely disregard flashlights in chase, and offers you a slight bonus if you get caught off guard and get hit by a flashlight save. It's shifting the point of bringing the perk away from just ignoring flashlight saves to more of a chase-based tool, not removing the point of bringing it entirely.

    I feel like maybe you're not too clear on what I'm suggesting? When you get hit by a flashlight right now, your screen gets completely covered by a visual effect that stops you from being able to see anything. With my suggestion, your screen would look the same as it always does, which allows you to track the survivor trying to blind you much easier. It's not an animation difference, it's a tangible difference in what being blinded mechanically does to you, which with Lightborn would be "nothing except give you an aura read".

  • Member Posts: 147

    Leave lightborn alone, it's fine the way it is

  • Member Posts: 9,513
    edited January 14
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870759#Comment_3870759

    lightborn wasn't perfect counter to flashlights. it got buffed. it used to be 70% increase blinding time. i don't agree with distortion change. Lightborn works as it should. the saying is, you don't need fix anything if it isn't broken. Lightborn is not an unfair perk therefore it does not need any changes.

  • Member Posts: 358
    edited January 14
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870535#Comment_3870535

    The changes you propose make a circumstancial perk miserable. The blind screen is no big issue anymore (good lord, the old one was annoying) since you still can hear. And what we need against these groups is a counter that works 100% of the times, since they are very prone to pick up items dropped by Franklin's fast when they are well-coordinated. So those may be fine outcomes for you, but for the rest they aren't, because you could abuse the mechanic once more, because killers are still exposed to being stolen hook states and pressure with them. You would absolutely butcher this perk like SM was butchered, and all because you want your flashlight saves, making the killer's objective more difficult to achieve when we all want to have a good time.

  • Member Posts: 4,128
    edited January 14

    @jesterkind

    I also hate the fact it's a hard counter… hard counters tend to be kinda lame as a game design… but even though that does irk me, the reality is it's just not strong enough to warrant losing it's stun protection. The fact survivors still have pallets to stun and save with gives them tools to fight killers for saves, so Lightborn remains very situational and not a good perk.

    However I do like part of your suggestion as a buff to Lightborn… Buff Lightborn to have more perk interactions! (and help survivors with blind challenges)

    Lightborn

    Unlike other beasts of The Fog, you have adapted to light.

    • Grants immunity from the Blindness Effect from Flashlights, Firecrackers, Flash Grenades, and Blast Mine.
    • The Auras of Survivors who blind you by any means are revealed to you for 6/8/10 seconds.

    "These monsters... they adapt! They emerge with strange new abilities." — Vigo, Vigo's Journal

    The wording is careful here to say the "Blindness Effect" not "blind". You still have Flashlights and other light sources "blind" the killer, grant the score events and the beam animations as normal… but as you suggest make the killer immune to the actual "Blindness Effect", which includes being stunned while carrying a survivor. Also note that this DOES NOT stop the stun from Blast Mine, as that is a separate stun from Blast Mine not linked to the Blind Effect.

    This would mean a survivor blinding the killer gives them the aura read, and allows the killer to act like they are blinded and continue to get value from the perk. It'd only be when an actual save occurs that the jig is up… which would be a nice bait a switch to make Lightborn actually a semi-decent perk…

    This would also synergise with Shadowborn, which gives a cool potential build idea, and allows Killers to actually fight bully squads.

    This would also alleviate a lot of the annoyance for Survivors on challenges, and the cool interaction is Champion of Light, where instead of the perk being hard countered to do literally nothing, you can still be slowed by Champion of Light, but you don't have the blindness effect. This I think would make Lightborn actually healthy and not COMPLETELY infallible instead of the dumb hard counter it is.

  • Member Posts: 8,687
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871006#Comment_3871006

    I would definitely be down for this version as well, since it'd give more usefulness to blind interactions that aren't the literal effect or the stun, as you say.

    I'd still personally like to see it not be a "you can't be flashlight saved no matter what" perk, but I can understand the position that it's too situational to lose that.

    Ultimately, I think the thing we can agree on is that Lightborn both being a hard counter to flashlight saves and preventing interesting off-meta picks like Champion of Light from working/preventing "blind the killer" archive challenges from being doable is too much and addressing that part would at least be an improvement for everyone.

  • Member Posts: 4,128
    edited January 14
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871012#Comment_3871012

    Indeed. Also realised Hex: Two Can play and Residual Manifest also affect this perk.

    Hex: Two Can Play actually not terrible? Say it ain't so :D

    Also it's funny, cause then Residual Manifest counters the aura read from Lightborn… :D
    Actual Value!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣

Welcome to BHVR Forums

Please sign in to join in the discussions.
Sign In
Register

Welcome to BHVR Forums

Please sign in to join in the discussions.
Sign In
Register

Quick Links