Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Nemesis gets punished too hard. Hot Take. General Feedback.
His tier 1 and 2 if he misses his whip he gets slowed down by so much. Survivors make way too much distance. Of course if you compare this to unknown if he misses its really short lived. Pig if she misses a dash? No worries, she gets little slowdown as well and she even has addons to help compensate for that I believe.
My feedback.
1) Reduce the penalty he gets if he misses just by a TINY bit. Not asking for much. I don't know what that would be but something.
2) His zombies either need to be a little faster or give him a 3rd one. (OR at least a 3rd one on the large maps.)
Zombies walking at 1m/s is stupid slow. They should move at at least 2m/s. Which isn't asking for much. Yes I know they help with intel but that's not the point. It takes them WAY to long to get from one side of the map to another and if they do, they get to eat a long blind stun of 15 seconds which IMHO is way tooooooo long.
3) If zombies get stuck halfway across the map and you are unable to walk your big butt all the way over there, they should just die off and respawn. Respawn automatically just like with Snug.
In this screenshot this zombie was stuck for the last 2 gens because I literally could not go over there to reset him. Aliens map is so huge it would be wasting too much time unfortunately.
SIDENOTE - This was Chaos Shuffle so don't judge my build LOL.
Comments
-
you should get punished for missing the ability. nemesis issues right now is just zombies. they suck. they have no m/s or detection for survivors and 2 zombies is terrible map presence in open big maps.
fixes for his zombies is
increase their m/s by a lot.
increase their detection
add 1 extra zombie.
nemesis 1vs1 is very solid, but his map presence is 0. he also lacks anti-shift w mechanics so that is his other issue. some people propose giving nemesis a dash-type ability to close distance but i don't know. maybe they can make nemesis tentacle strike have 2nd mode where you can lash his tentacle around objects like a hook shot.
7 -
I am okay with being punished for missing with my whip. I am no that good. However, that’s not the argument. I shouldn’t be punished so severely as I am right now. He’s punished more than unknown and pig just to name a couple of killers.
I agree 💯 on the zombie part.1 -
his chase is a lot better than pig and unknown. i disagree for unknown, he loses his weakness for missing. that is extra health-state+distance loss for firing.
i don't think he's very difficult to tier up even if your missing, you can tyrant core+ T-virus sample. i recommend using these add-on's if your new to nemesis because you can hit zombies with your tentacle strike and gain 1.75 point of infection. When you get good at nemesis, you should be running Licker tongue and Marvin's blood. he should ideally be running 2 zombie speed add-on's to get some 4vs1 but the zombies are so meaningless that add-on's for them are an afterthought in term of gameplay impact.
2 -
I disagree mostly. He can practically guarantee hits in a lot of scenarios, and doesn't get punished hard at all for cancelling a whip. His power should not be more spammable than it arguably already is. Just cancel if you're not confident you'll hit. His chase power is already incredible and doesn't need any more buffs.
Asking for zombies to go twice as fast isn't "not asking for much" either. It is hard to notice the pressure they give, but playing against Nemesis really shows you how much of a pain they can be. Them being so passive in nature can make you lose sight of what they can actually do.
The one thing I agree on is having an anti-stuck mechanic. If you can't make their pathing work all the time, then you should at least be able to make it so they explode if they detect they're stuck and can't find a way out.
5 -
I have gone against Nemesis a lot. I wont argue on the whip because I know that is a skill issue on my part, but the zombies moving at 1m/s? Its horrible. Truly. Large maps they take forever to get anywhere to be a "disturbance" If they do, they just get stunned for a long 15 seconds. Since he's come out for YEARS people have asked for the zombies to be more useful than what they are.
We are tired of it.
0 -
it is 2 m/s per second. 50%.
let's see how many counters these zombies have
- stunning with a pallet
- running away from a gen than LOS them in specific way makes AI ignore the survivor and path mindlessly around the map.
- Flashlight stun the zombie for 15 seconds.
All of these actions take minimal time investment. pallet stunning takes like 10 seconds. running away from a gen takes like 25 seconds. flashlight takes like 2 seconds. short term-wise, the zombies are poor 4vs1 game-delay tool. you lose all the gens long before the zombies have much or any impact on the match.
1 -
I wouldn't mind the zombies moving faster or being stronger in general if the ability to stun them wasn't locked to flashlights. As they are, despite their slow speed they are often still very good for taking survivors off generators and wasting time if they don't have a flashlight to quickly stop them. You can pallet stun them, sure, but you can't always do that efficiently nor is it often worth giving up a pallet to do it, especially considering how quickly Nemesis can get rid of pallets in chase. I was actually a bit surprised that this was left untouched when Lightburn and those other special flashlight interactions got removed, since this isn't really that much different. Imo, counterplay to components of a killer's power should never be tied to items unless they are special items which are guaranteed to be available in the trial (ie. Singularity's EMPs). TLDR: If the ability to stun them was more widely available, then I'd be all for making the zombies better and/or even adding a 3rd zombie if that's a possibility. Otherwise, it's not really necessary especially after Nemesis' last round of buffs, he's quite strong now as he is.
I agree there should be an auto-reset mechanism though if the game detects that a zombie is stuck somewhere.
3 -
you don't need an item(flashlight) to outplay zombies. you can abuse AI because AI is very bad. it just takes more time. Stunning with pallet or flashlight is best time efficient play for gen-rushing. if you don't care about time management, you can use the abusive AI pathing trick to make zombie path away from the gen.
I am not sure if anyone posted a video for how the nemesis zombie tech works but maybe check otz, he might have a video on it.
1 -
Default its 1m/s - the addon for 50% brings its to 1.50 m/s
0 -
I think he loses far too little distance when he misses. Missing is simply a skill problem of the killer.
0 -
Its a skill issue on my end for sure - but I still think its a little too much. If they just adjusted the zombies I would be happy.
0 -
Have to disagree here, I think the cooldown for missed whips is fine. I was happy with the buff to the hit cooldown though, I just wish they buffed that a little more.
0 -
Neither #1 and #2 are minimal time investments, and #1 requires a resource. #3 is item dependent
25 seconds is not a minimal time investment at all. Pain Resonance knocks off 18 seconds of a generator and that's very significant.
1 -
I think chase wise Nemi is completely fine, but his biggest weakness is lack of map pressure/mobility. He simply can't afford to spread pressure with 3-sucsessful-hits-before-down system. Zombies are so boring way to buff him in completely different direction for both sides. As AMN lover zombies don't exist for me. But I agree with point #3.
0 -
I just flat out disagree, Nemi zombies are already a ######### miserable experience and honestly should just be changed completely. His power is also meant to be super strong when he gets a hit. If you are a nemi player you know that hinder is pretty much straight up murder. This needs to come with a trade off where survivors can make distance if you miss.
1 -
the resource requirement rarely comes into play if at all. killer are often not chasing around entire map because… it is waste of time to break all 15 pallets in the map. if the team is efficient and stays alive, you're likely to lose all 5 gens before you break all 15 pallets. that is why using pallet to kill zombies is very rarely a negative unless your match is like 15 minutes long. zombies in short-normal try-hard match are not very likely interrupt you. they maybe get like 3 interupt-4 interrupts a game in a regular opening map. they're too slow at traversing the map to have any map impact.
zombies tend to be a lot stronger in indoor maps because they sometimes block you in hallways such as Midwich elementary school map. as a result, they impact the chase more and get hits more often which results in healing. healing equates to game-delay which is more meaningful but on like 90% outdoor maps, zombies do not get hits and as a result, they're a rubbish 1vs4 tool.
you can just like use zombies add-on to make zombies somewhat better but in my experience, i haven't noticed any impact with said add-on's. it feels like your just playing no add-on which is why a lot of nemesis player often say their add-on list is garbage because… well most of it is zombie add-on that do nothing.
0 -
All of these actions take minimal time investment
Yea… because they cost resources.
If you stun a zombie with a Pallet, that Pallet has been used, it can easily be broken by Nemesis, so you’ll almost never see anyone do this outside of very niche situations. Technically you can use Any Means Necessary to pick it up but the pick rates for the perk are so low that you’ll almost never face off against it while playing Nemesis.
Blinding a zombie with a Flashlight consumes the Battery Charges. They reduce the total amount of plays and actions you can do with the Flashlight, and depending on the quality of the Flashlight, addons, or perk build can easily result in them being dead weight really fast.
Zombies do have their flaws, but your argument of “they don’t waste because these actions are quick” completely ignored the fact that those quick actions have costs and consequences that players have to actively weigh and measure.
0 -
i use pallet all the time to destroy zombies and i escape most of my games in soloq vs nemesis. As long your entire team is doing gens and isn't crouch in bushes, the pallet resources barely mean anything in many cases. there is obvious times where not using pallet is better but in a lot of cases, just rush gens works. there should be more effort required to escape nemesis but it is the regular BVHR weak killer balance at play. buffing his zombies would make him a lot more challenging to escape but right now i'd say he's on easier side. at least for me.
A really good nemesis player is pretty difficult to loop but it is fairely easy to rush gens vs him.
0
