https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3874782#Comment_3874782
Thats because the opinion that slugging is the problem is not correct. Slugging is fundamentally very similar to being hooked. Nearly identical really. Slugged survivors dont die in 3 downs and can move around. They still need someone to pick them up though just like a survivor needs someone to unhook them. So if the 2 things are so similar then what is it exactly about slugging that people dont like? Lets identify that problem and try to get that fixed instead of calling the entire mechanic bad. That is the opinion I have, and is exactly why I pushed some ideas for fixes to what I feel is the real underlying problem.
I am unhappy because I feel that the other person was engaging in bad faith which is why I am responding to you. Our opinions on the matter are not ones we are likely to be in complete agreement on and that's fine. Whats important is that you are not trying to push for something specifically because it will lead to an extremely favorable game state for the side you play, and instead are being honest, which is something I do appreciate. I can see right through a lot of BS and dont really enjoy wasting my time trying to explain things or argue with someone who has no interest in really being honest about what is being discussed. If people want to have a discussion and try to find real solutions to things that actually are sore spots or flat out problems then I will engage with those people in earnest.
General Discussions
General Discussions
Killer behaviour is appalling during events
Comments
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Well, perhaps I should start by explaining my stance on slugging. I don't think it should be deleted from the game or eradicated by any means. I think it is an important tool, and it is a counter. It's a counter to flashlights and sabo. And because I'm not a fan of counters being perk dependent, I think slugging being a base-kit counter is a good thing, just like endurance off hook. So it sounds like we're in agreement that the entire mechanic is not bad. That being said, I do believe like any tool in the game it has the potential to be abused. I do have my own personal thoughts on a potential solution, as I'm sure you may, as well as many others.
But I do understand your overall point, and I do agree. It's difficult for many people to have discussions in regards to balance without it turning into an echo chamber of somewhat mob mentality. And while it is tiring and can sometimes be pointless to engage in, i believe it does display the passion in which an individual or a group of individuals feel about something. Of course, that doesn't always mean it's correct, but sometimes the people that scream the loudest are the ones who feel like nobody is listening. And again, it doesn't mean it's correct, maybe nobody it's becaue people are listening that there is no response. Situations are complex like that, and it should all be case by case.
From all you've said above, I am mostly in agreement. There's nothing really there that I disagree with except for maybe the opinion on slugging not being correct. Only because I believe that opinions are just that- opinions. And shouldn't be confused with fact. If someone has the opinion that something isn't fun, just because someone else thinks it is fun, doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. Both are as right as they are wrong, the reasoning for having those opinions can stem from fact, but even then people cherry pick if the facts don't align with their opinion. I think the essence of what I perceive to be your point is what I agree with, however. And I apprecite your honesty and respectful tone in explaining your perspective.
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Yeah, it is strong, because hooking survivors has constantly been nerfed over and over again.
The strongest perks in the game for survivors are activated when they are hooked, and most of the killer hook perks around gen defense have been nerfed time and time again. And you wonder why people are slugging now?
They need to stop punishing killers for doing killer things, balance the game around HOOKS instead of kills, and encourage killers to hook survivors.
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8 Pages of this garbage.
By commenting you’re just bumping the thread further. If you don’t want to engage in the thread you don’t have to.
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It's 8 pages of valuable content. Deep insights into the human psyche and the underbelly that the dbd community is.
Entertaining as well.
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Pretty much what every game is on Chaos Shuffle. Just constant camping and tunnelling, and maybe throw in a dash of slugging as well. It's non stop this evening. Trying to play this in solo queue as a survivor at the moment is genuinely an awful experience.
I get it, you don't have your usual meta perks, but at least try and make what you get work? That's the whole point of the mode but unfortunately it's turned into absolute crap.
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Tbf a few bad solo queue games are enough to tilt me too even by playing once a week at best. I kinda kept going just to see how much worse it can get and I was definitely not disappointed. I had swfs to play with years ago but everyone quit (I did too for a few years). Killer gets boring.
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I just played a match as Bubba with Knock Out / Third Seal where I slugged everyone quickly and let them all bleed out for the full duration only to mori the last guy. It's ok tho they brought the map offering.
Amazing gameplay. I don't think that is problematic at all. Finally I can kick back and relax as a killer. I can just leave and make some coffee and when I'm back they are all dead. BHVR doesn't think that this is problematic either.
See you in the fog!
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How do you define tunneling?
- Directly off the hook
- After unhook, found working on a gen/ healing with another survivor(s) and the killer goes after you.
- Hooked twice in a row regardless of time.
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The killer looked into his general direction and only because the killer was wiping cheeto dust off of his Glorious Model 0 wireless gaming mouse it appeared to the survivor as if the killer was nodding. Very toxic behavior.
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That's just me. Top level gameplay. Always.
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Going after the unhooked survivor no matter what
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I will just coin the #DoingMyPart tag.
Since BHVR doesn't see a problem with it I will 4-man-slug every lobby and let them bleed out on the ground.
They will get afk crows or DC right away to eat a penalty.
This is in no shape or form toxic or problematic since it's 100% an intended feature, all I am doing is playing smart while using the tools that were given to me. Just imagine all those kids buying DBD because of the FNAF chapter. All of those poor, innocent souls…
On that note, can we get a Charm that depicts a slug? I want that hanging from my hooks, will pay 15$ for it, thanks.
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Ahh my bad. I misinterpreted the comment.
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unhook perks? Survivor had off the record which is only really useful for tunneling like decisive strike don't forget those perks deactivate as soon as said survivor touches anything and perks like babysitter and second wind are beneficial for the survivor being tunneled these killers cry too much when I'm on the ground I can't do anything except watch smh they fail to realize survivors have challenges too
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Your sarcasm detector is broken, you need a new one.
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The correct statement is "player behavior". It's not just killers.
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Let's not pretend that the give up epidemic started because of slugging. THAT is a separate issue that's been a thing for a year. The slugging meta is much more recent. All you're doing is coping.
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The thing is, Killer behavior has way more impact than Survivor behavior. A Survivor cannot really do the same as a Killer. The "best" the Survivors can do which compares to slugging until bleedout is to wait at the Exit Gates. But the Killer can do something against it.
Everything else is just nothing which impacts the Killer that much. The Killer on the other hand can take away the possibility for the Survivors to play the game - either by slugging them or, if they dont care about being banned, by bodyblocking. The Survivor cannot do that.
Killer Toxicity is just more impactful.
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I will agree on the first point - but the answer is a shorter bleed out time, and ONLY a shorter bleed out time. Not a base kit 2nd chance, which is where people automatically try to take these things.
Let's also not pretend that the OP didn't post screenshots of, to be honest, 4 survivors being slugged with absolutely ZERO context. All we know is that it was pretty late in the game. What happened during that game? How did the survivors play? Were the SURVIVORS being boring? (yes, survivors can be boring). Was the killer just matching that energy? It's really easy to create a convenient narrative to make yourself look like a victim when you remove ALL context and events leading up to the pictures posted.
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So what if I just swf up with some good survivors, tank my mmr and just never open the exit gates while running the killer around objects he doesn't yet know how to run correctly? You can easily do this for an hour without him catching you. There's no way for him to end the game except DC.
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Sure, if you want to fabricate a situation to have an argument. Go for it. Realistically… This will not happen.
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What do you mean realistically this will not happen? Take a 110% Killer that has no clue how to use his power yet and respects pallets. It's over, I'll get 10 rounds on a godrock without throwing a single pallet, get respect one time and it's 5 more rounds, get slapped and swap the player while you heal. Or you know, just use a syringe or styptic.
What about this scenario is fabricated to you?
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That a SWF tanks their MMR just to annoy low-MMR/new Killers, which will just lead to them being banned. Yes, I think this is fabricated. Unlike extensive slugging, this happens quite frequently.
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That's factually false. "Way more impact". That's just a roundabout excuse to be able to say "it's okay for survivors but not for killer". You no longer get the privilege of talking to me. I prefer not to waste my time on someone with such a god awful attitude and mindset.
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How will you ban them? For what? Having a streak of bad games? Good luck with that, they barely ban cheaters, let alone read whiny report tickets. They probably get thousands daily. Who will even report them? The killer with 20 hours game time that doesn't understand what is even happening?
SoloQ MMR is already eff'd. Every now and then I get exactly that type of killer. I've had killers that could't catch me at a cowtree longwall gym combo for the entire game.
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Thats fine. You took my words and instead of bringing an argument yourself, you assumed something which I did not even say. So yeah… My disappointment that I will not hear your wisdom anymore is pretty limited.
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Not opening the Exit Gates is holding the game hostage. But that being said, the Killer could even open the Exit Gates themselves if they want. So we would need to move your point to "not doing Generators" - which again is holding the game hostage and bannable.
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I find it curious how they say "slugging happens quite frequently". I've been slugged once in like…40 games of survivor. And as soon as they slugged, they hooked everyone.
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So I just do 4 gens and leave the 5th one for later, like 50 minutes in. I was just farming bloodpoints and practicing my loops, man.
No hostage intentions at all.
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Sorry, you are talking nonsense. You know that this is holding the game hostage, even if they would not drag it out for the whole hour until the Server closes.
And this is what I mean with fabricated - you created a scenario which will not happen and whenever I try to debunk it, you come with another unreasonable take why your scenario would be valid. Really, stop it - Killer toxicity has more impact on the gameplay than Survivor toxicity, even if the latter is more frequent (which is logical, since you have 4 Survivors for 1 Killer in a game). And this is just a fact.
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You're not debunking anything.
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The really toxic slugging is happening so rarely that in over 1.5k hours I can still count these occurrences on one hand, maybe two hands.
I did it earlier with my SlugBubba build. Slug everyone and let them bleed out. They were slugged with AFK crows and I got a nice Mori at the end of it all. Do you think anyone in this lobby had fun? Absolutely not. Those instances should not be able to happen, I completely agree. Anything less than that is fair game and if you complain… well you know my opinion by now.
We have yet to see proof of this constant slugging. Scott Jund even mentioned this in a video.
Where some guy claimed to experience this, then proceeded to stream himself for 8 hours only to prove that none of this ever happened anywhere near to the degree that is often claimed here.
It's unsubstantiated nonsense.
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Killers aren't any more or less toxic in events than they are normally.
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That can still mean many things. What if the killer goes off and tries to find other survivors and the one that got unhooked last happens to cross their path. Is it then tunneling to go after that survivor?
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The event is dogshit. IDK why anyone in their right mind would want to play survivor on this mode.
You're weaker than ever before, and killers are just hard-tunneling off bat or 5 man slugging.
FUN.
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Where do they get the 5th survivor from and why does he suffer from the same skill issue the other 4 suffer from?
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I really don't care about what excuses you come up with. Focusing on a survivor until they're dead is tunneling by definition
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Well, no killer will care about the excuses you come up with. Back to the hook with you :)
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Clown.
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Ah yes finding 1000 reasons to say the killer is not tunneling, then play "it's not my responsibility" card.
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So by that logic the killer must ignore the last survivor that got unhooked. Even if that survivor actively impeeds the killer from hunting other survivors.
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You know you could just say I'm making that list up instead of this
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I'm not saying that because I don't believe it's made up. You believed that you or someone on your team was tunneled. I just want to know what you personally consider tunneling so I can compare it to what I believe to be tunneling.
The dbd community does not have a single definition of tunneling so to understand each other's point we must have some reference to go by.
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And on top of that, they made the tome with a challenge you HAVE to escape in order to go further in the tome. Great idea to do that in a place where you only can bypass by being forced to play killer.
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To answer your question, not at all. If the unhooked survivor tries to bodyblock he's provoking the killer to go after them again. The same thing if the unhooker hides by not taking chase. What I'm talking about is the killer going after that unhooked survivor even if other survivors try to bodyblock/the unhooked survivor starts prerunning away and not healing under the hook. It is a problem in chaos shuffle because the survivor has no anti tunneling perks
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I've seen people call things by names they don't understand. It's always this that or the other. If I'm a piss poor player who could't win a game to save my life then I'll just cry about it on a forum because that is what I am used to, it's the easiest thing to do.
None of these things happen to players who can actually play the game. Not my responsibility btw.
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Thanks, that view does align more with mine..
I had to ask because I've seen survivors complain about tunneling even after two other survivors are hooked.
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I noticed some people are saying this is a problem too and definitely considered tunneling. There are some subtleties here though.
If you go to look for another survivor, spend time and effort to track someone down, and find the last person you hooked long after they've been off-hook, probably got healed, I'd say it's not necessarily tunneling to hook them again.
Having said that, if it's early in the match and you specifically break chase or focus intentionally only on that one person, that's tunneling, even if it wasn't straight off-hook.
Personally, if I down someone I just hooked or who's having a bad match, and it's still early in the game, I'll leave them slugged. That gives me the pressure of having them off of gens, pulls someone off to go heal them, and lets me chase someone else in the meantime, all while that one person doesn't get another hook state and gets to stay on the game. If it's late game, I don't mind so much from the survivor or killer perspective.
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I mean yeah it's BHVR's responsibility. But you like the attention with these posts don't you?
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