Slugging is out of hand - throwing out solutions hoping something hits.
If survivors have to “do gens” to win, killers should have to “do hooks” to win. It’s ridiculous that behavior continues to condone the toxicity of slugging and forcing survivors to wait out the bleed out timer or disconnect. Nothing more boring than having to watch others play a game and hope you get picked up (especially in solo Q). There are other threads out there regarding slugging itself, but I’d wanted to share these thoughts without them getting lost within a sea of comments.
Now there maybe problems with removing slugging outright. Boil Over’s current meta is a perfect example as survivors can be almost unhookable on certain maps with boil over. Killers should also have the chance to snowball in the end-game collapse, not that they’re forced to hook and let someone else escape.
My wishlist would be:
Survivors get the base kit to recover from a dying state, it when they do so, they suffer from broken for 60 seconds. Self recovering from a dying state isn’t possible in the endgame collapse (unless it’s plot twist). If this still seems too overpowered for Survivors, maybe throw in Exhausted too? Ultimately, if self reviving comes as part of the base kit, there should be a penalty for having to use too.
Unbreakable Perk - Removes the broken status effect when you recover from the dying state yourself. Recover from the dying state 25/30/35% faster.
Boil Over Perk - Add a 60-90 second cooldown timer. You shouldn’t be able to continuously benefit by running to the same spot just to waste the killers time.
Knock Out Perk - remove the aura blocking ability from the perk. The rest is still useful without the aura blocking feature.
Soul Guard Perk - Would just remove the recover dying a dying state text. While you’d still get endurance if a hex is in effect, you’d also suffer from the broken state yet.
Adrenaline Perk - Doesn’t work if you’re in a broken state. This would mean that if downed, you’d be better off staying down until the gen pops to pop up without being broken or self revive and stay injured if the gen pops within that 60 seconds.
I’m sure there are other ideas or counter points, feel free to add below as I’m not a fan of the constant changing of perks etc, but the slugging meta makes for a miserable survivor experience and boiled over would make for a miserable killer experience without being able to slug.
Comments
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Killers are not required to "do hooks" to win. They simply just need to kill the survivors which some killers even have basekit ways to do that without hooks.
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These ideas seem like a great way to shift the balance heavily in favor of the survivors. What buffs will the killer players be receiving?
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Personally, I think that the game should be able to recognize toxic behaviors and give an incremental bp bonus to people on the receiving end of toxicity.
Not only would it make toxicity more bearable to endure, but toxic people are petty enough that they wouldn't do it knowing that it benefits others.
The game should easily be able to detect excessive time in the dying state, being hit on hook, survivors t-bagging in the exit gate or in proximity to hatch, etc etc etc. Just give an incremental BP bonus for people facing these and I'm sure there'd be less of it.
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@Crowman
in terms of the game itself, bleedouts aren't kills. You might stop a survivor from winning from doing it, but in terms of the game itself, it's not a win for the killer either
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It’s why it’s an open ended discussion, if you have ideas to help improve the current slug meta and bring back hook states, feel free to include them! I personally don’t often need to slug to win as killer, but I know I’ve had to when dealing with boiled over or when two survivors are going for flashlight / sabotage saves back to back (especially on an m1 killer). Knowing that they’re broken (can’t fully heal to a health state) for a minute after they pick themselves up (about another minute) feels like a pretty good trade off to me personally…especially if boiled over abuse was needed.
in terms of the blood point nerfs etc, I don’t feel that the players doing it care enough about the blood points etc. Yeah, you want them early on to help build out their roster, but after that, everything just goes toward a pool of endless add-ons etc. Honestly, it’s more of a nuisance to have to spend them all and that’s even after the improvements BHVR has added.1 -
Most of your suggestions seems to be buffs for survivors that require no skills. If a survivor is allowed to get up from the dying state thats just a game mechanic that allows them to do so. I think most people get caught up with trying to "correct" the game rather than focusing on how to make it more fun, I've posted some discussion regarding my thoughts on this too. What if instead of completely removing slugging, we instead make it easier for skilled survivors to counter it themselves? I was thinking of allowing survivors to crawl faster while also being able to heal at the same time. This way, a single survivor has a better chance of rescuing 3 slugged survivors. Such a change would make the game more fun and thrilling, and of course thats why we play this game. We play it because it's fun, not because it's "correct".
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can you play as killer and get 3/4 kill before 5gen all done for 100 times with out cut off?
if killer want to 3/4 k, this game now need killer chose hook or leave downed survivor.
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Not sure I’m following, but if I am, I’m ok with not getting a 4k every match. It’s harder with some M1 killers, but that comes with the fun of playing a more challenging killer or something different from your main(s). If a survivor happens to play well and escape, so be it.
In the initial post I’d mentioned not being able to pick yourself up in the end-game collapse, but in reflecting on it, maybe that wouldn’t be a bad thing. It would certainly give relevancy to the hatch again if I need to hook someone that keeps picking themselves up versus running back to rough where the downed survivor was to try to kill both of them. Returns a bit to giving agency in the end game collapse when the Entity gives survivor a chance at the hatch versus the new standard of slugging for a double Mori.
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- survivor can use unbreakable at cost of hook stage
- survivors can use unbreakable only if they were not hooked before
- survivors can't use unbreakable when all gens are finished
- show killer hook stages per survivor
This would make it way more difficult to use slugging from start of the game, because if survivors start to lose, they can recover with unbreakable, but it won't be issue mid/late game.
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I love how the standard for balancing the game needs to be "I must be able to win 100 times in a row or its unfair". And killers will STILL say survivors are "entitled"
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Then they will complain about flashbangs, power struggle and flashlights. Killers want easier hooks.
Post edited by BoxGhost on1 -
I mean, killer now can't win even survivor don't have those perk.
the "100 win(3/4 k)" is want that one know "the lose match" how the killer lose.
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just give survivors free perk unbreakable, let no one want to play killer, even you.
Post edited by ABAEX on0 -
or let killer get 25% gen/ kick.
killer have no gen presser so they can hook survivor.
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that is why you don't know how to play killer now, the slug meta is not what killer want, just killer have to do slug to get 3/4 kill.
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Survivors get the base kit to recover from a dying state, it when they do so, they dying state reduce for 60 seconds.(survivor have 240s)
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survivor just need to have the ability to get up once per minute on the dying state. that's it. even if you are 95% recover unless a minute passes you can't get up. killers can still try to slug 3 to 4 survivors if they want but punishes unnecessary slugging.
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Made another post, but it apparently disappeared. Anyway, this maybe your experience in your MMR (if you play survivor that is), but my experience has been that in roughly 4 out of 5 games, the killers are trying to slug every survivor at 4-5 gens. They have no interest in hooking either, they’ll gladly just wait while you bleed out, making survivors run unbreakable or wait the four minutes it takes to bleed out if no one is able to pick you back up (if they’re running Knock Out, the other survivors may not know where you are in Solo Q). That genuinely makes for a miserable gameplay experience, thus the reason the slugging meta (4k slug at 3-5 gens) needs to stop. Again, our experiences maybe different depending on each of our MMRs (wish BHVR would show that somewhere in game, but a problem for another day I suppose).
In terms of my Killer gameplay, I’m not sure where you’re getting that I struggle. If I’m rallying for base kit unbreakable, it’s more likely that I don’t play killer at all or I don’t need to slug to achieve a 3-4k. I assure you, it’s the latter. To be honest, I rarely slug at the end-game as it’s more fun to try to hunt down that last survivor or hatch than it is to play a 3-4 minute game of hide and seek (especially if they’re hiding in lockers). If the survivor happens to escape, so be it—the Entity willed it, it is why the Entity provides the hatch in the first place (this seems lost on behavior in allowing the last survivor to be Mori’d and creating the end-game slugging meta problem in the first place).
Since you brought it up, I’ve only had to really utilize slugging as a tactic in one game so far this year and that’s when I was running up against a bully duo running Boiled Over and Soul Guard with a Sabotage build on Forsaken Boneyard. Because they had Soul Guard to boot, I’d have to go back and re-slug them at the top of the center tower as there was no way to reach a hook from the window side vault to the stairs without dropping or taking too long. And even in that game, with their picking themselves up, I was able to achieve a 4k by hooking the last two survivors. This would be like their having the base kit unbreakable, the only difference is that in this case, they had Soul Guard which also gave them endurance as long as they left my hex alone.That being said, I’m not talking about your need to slug after the 2k to try to get your 4k. You do you, to each their own. I’m talking about those games in which the killers only goal is to be toxic by slugging and trying to make survivors DC or wait the four minutes it takes to bleed out. Again, the reason I believe Killers should have to use hooks to win if Survivors have to do gens to win. And I’m perfectly ok having some perks nerfed (Boiled Over cooldown as an example) to achieve that goal as back to back games of Killers slugging at 4-5 gens is tiresome.
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if killer hook, killer will 3 hooks and survivor get all gens then escape.
my mmr can match some pro team number.
the survivor is far strong than killer.
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