http://dbd.game/killswitch
Killer Kits Are Steering Away From Beginner/Casual Friendly. Lets Fix That
Personally, it feels like these killers can harm a new player's experience with the game if they simply don't understand how to use their power/counter power, making them lose miserably and go on rage rants about perfectly healthy kits
A fix to this and many other frustrations are the following:
- Pre game lobbies now last 2 minutes
- All players names are now hidden in the pre game lobby (this is to prevent tunneling the weak link, or the person with the least hours. This is a big contributing factor to the casual experience)
- The killer is picked in the pre game lobby, and can be switched before a lock in timer of sorts
- Survivor item types, rarities and number of add ons are revealed to all players (this is a feature on mobile, essentially being ported)
- The killer being played is made public to the whole lobby (This change i feel makes sense since most killers are revealed at the start of matches anyway
- When it comes to lobby dodging, a lock in timer would prevent all players from leaving a pre game lobby at a certain point, meaning that no matter who the killer picked to play, the survivors and killer must play it out)
- Survivors who haven't played against the killer 3 times at least will get a notification directing them to the killer's power breakdown. For reworked killers, this prompt would reappear the first 3 times, for example with Freddy's rework
- All killer power breakdowns are available in an experience journal (this would track whether you've seen a certain killer and how many times you've encountered them and your escape rate against them)
- Bloodpoints are no longer spendable in the pre game lobby (incentivise instant readying with regards to killers being known to everyone. Survivorswho care will likely modifytheir builds to combat the killers power)
- Bloodpoint cap is removed (compensates for no more spending in the pre game)
Really simple fixes im suprised are not in the QOL Initiative changes. Informing players of whats to come almost forcefully is the perfect way for players to understand and improve, thus staying attached to the game. The stats tracked in the journal is more of a bonus for curious eyes, not to sure if BHVR knows an individual player's escape rates against certain killers, but if they don't, these stats can be used to make changes to killers with plentiful data
As much as these seem like killer nerfs, the extra preparation shouldn't impact generic escape rates all too much, since survivors often don't seem to care about running counter perks and just stick to the meta
All personal preference, i just think this can alleviate alot of problems with the casual/new player experience. Sorry for the rant : )
Comments
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I hope they go back and refine the new player experience as a whole, the tutorial section is incredibly barebones and lacks really important information, and unless you have external information or help, you will really struggle.
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Thats a whole nother thing thats needs additions. I'm hoping in the future that theres a tutorial for all killers as well, to be played on both sides. I didn't mention it in the post, but i feel like there could be videos or illustrations showing what a killers power does. Though that'll take ages to implement and might not be possible on DBD's engine
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Mess up the flow of the game by doubling waiting times in the pregame and make the killer public before the match starts so people can counterpick the most effective perks against them? No thanks.
The only good ideas here are removing the BP cap and expanding the tutorials. The rest are rather bad suggestions.
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The queues are no where near long. If you think waiting more than a minute is too long, then try playing 2v8. It already takes ages to find a killer game, and theres no MMR or region routing in the entire gamemode (lacks quality and isn't a fun experience)
Making the killer publicly revealed isn't gonna do much of anything. If you want to run perks to counter a specific killer, then your wasting perk slots for potential meta perks that actually increase chances of escaping, plus you have no idea what the killer is going to use still. Even if there were a perk that made some killers way weaker than others, BHVR would've reworked them by now, trust me this is not an issue. Someone with experience like yours should know this
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Just a quick note on this one:
- The killer being played is made public to the whole lobby (This change i feel makes sense since most killers are revealed at the start of matches anyway
This would be bad because it makes stealth killers (already weak killers) even weaker. One of their most crucial aspects is being able to capitalize on the element of surprise. An early down by punishing survivors not paying attention can sometimes make or break the match for the killer - especially with Shoulder the Burden existing. Additionally, revealing who the killer is in the lobby would be bad because survivors (especially SWFs - something already incredibly strong) can change up their loadout to perfectly counter the killer in question. Know you're going up against the plague? Everyone drops their medkits and puts on toolboxes. Part of the balance is the unknown factor of what the match will be. That's also why you don't truly know what map you're going to until everything is locked in. You build around mitigating what may come, not meta-hard countering guarantees.
Post edited by RpTheHotrod on0 -
I think the problem really lies in the fact there are just so many killers in the game they ran out of ideas so they have to either reinvent abilities or come up with increasingly convoluted designs to make them distinct from others. This has resulted in some of the most obnoxiously unfun killers from a survivor perspective too.
As far as the complexity from a killer side, that is what bot matches are for and I have always played a few bot matches so I can at least understand powers before I go into a live match.
I do think the quarterly DLC model is unsustainable, there are already too many perks and addons in the game now and adding more every DLC is making the problem worse. It will also result in more overly complex and obnoxious killer designs too imo
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Except you aren’t losing a meta perk for a counter perk, if the perk hard counters a killer then THAT perk is the meta in that scenario. Or you can just swap to the meta perk that counters that killer better.
Killer is Legion? Swap from Dead Hard to Sprint Burst. You didn’t really lose any “meta” perks in that swap but now gain a better advantage.
Killer is Spirit? Put on Iron Will. Doesn’t matter if it’s not meta overall, it’s a massive counter so in this scenario it is “meta”.
Twins? Flip Flop with Power Struggle. Doesn’t matter if these two perks aren’t good against any other killer when they make it near impossible for this one killer in particular to pick you up. Or alternatively, just use Unbreakable.
And then there’s also the issue that you can bring certain items to counter the killer.
Trapper? Bring a map and now he has literally no power.
Plague? Swap from a med kit to a tool box.
Oni? Bring a med kit with max charges.
Or even map offerings. M1 killer? Garden or Badham. Stealth killer? Eyrie. Dredge? Red Forest. Trapper? Any map without grass. Yes they are reducing the chances of being sent to the map next patch, but still you have a 20% chance every game of gaining a massive, hand picked advantage.
While I understand your point and agree that the new player experience should be a priority, revealing the killer in the lobby is not a good idea right now. Maybe if there were some massive changes to the game then it could work but with how the game is designed, showing the killer gives you too much of an advantage.
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A workaround to this could be to only show you the killer once the perks are locked in? I like ops idea, but you could just choose the counter to whatever you're going against, like if you can see the survivor's items/addons and rarities, and they have a sabo build, just switch to a knockout build. Neither of these builds are healthy for the game either, and being able to predict what builds your opponents have and see which killer it is just isn't going to be viable at any level past beginner.
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They have already a notification in the loading screen if you play the first times against the killer. They could extend that for more matches.
In the end you can never give enough info before a match (i played with newbie friends and there is a lot to explain in the beginning). It would already help if you could understand it afterwards with a tutorial for playing against every killer, but right now you need to check youtube or something similar.
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There are problems with some suggestions:
- Pre game lobbies now last 2 minutes
Seems insignificant, but after some matches that sums up quite a bit.
- All players names are now hidden in the pre game lobby (this is to prevent tunneling the weak link, or the person with the least hours. This is a big contributing factor to the casual experience)
Could do, but how about hiding everything? Otherwise people tunnel for outfits.
- The killer is picked in the pre game lobby, and can be switched before a lock in timer of sorts
Not possible bc of MMR. I dont want to try a new killer if i need to play on the same level as my mains.
- Survivor item types, rarities and number of add ons are revealed to all players (this is a feature on mobile, essentially being ported)
Good idea.
- The killer being played is made public to the whole lobby (This change i feel makes sense since most killers are revealed at the start of matches anyway
No, far too strong. There are many ways to hardcounter a killer
- When it comes to lobby dodging, a lock in timer would prevent all players from leaving a pre game lobby at a certain point, meaning that no matter who the killer picked to play, the survivors and killer must play it out)
Those people dont care and close even the game for that.
- Survivors who haven't played against the killer 3 times at least will get a notification directing them to the killer's power breakdown. For reworked killers, this prompt would reappear the first 3 times, for example with Freddy's rework
Would be helpful.
- All killer power breakdowns are available in an experience journal (this would track whether you've seen a certain killer and how many times you've encountered them and your escape rate against them)
Also great.
- Bloodpoints are no longer spendable in the pre game lobby (incentivise instant readying with regards to killers being known to everyone. Survivorswho care will likely modifytheir builds to combat the killers power)
Could work, but then i can do nothing while waiting if someone else is not ready
- Bloodpoint cap is removed (compensates for no more spending in the pre game)
Would be great
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Pre game lobbies now last 2 minutesAll players names are now hidden in the pre game lobby (this is to prevent tunneling the weak link, or the person with the least hours. This is a big contributing factor to the casual experience)The killer is picked in the pre game lobby, and can be switched before a lock in timer of sorts
An extra minute would feel pretty annoying. Also I have no idea how that actually helps anything. People usually don't use it to communicate and, for a substantial portion of the player base, literally can't use it to communicate because players who speak different languages are grouped together.
What you seem to be asking for is the opposite, just remove pre-game lobbies entirely which people ask for every now and then.
Survivor item types, rarities and number of add ons are revealed to all players (this is a feature on mobile, essentially being ported)
You can currently see the item, just not the other stuff. Most people want something like that, just BHVR doesn't.
The killer being played is made public to the whole lobby (This change i feel makes sense since most killers are revealed at the start of matches anyway
I'm a survivor main who thinks the game is very killer sided. This would switch that instantly. Perks chosen and playstyles are hugely dependent on the killer you are facing. You say killers are revealed quickly, true, but that beginning of the match is most important time of the match.
It would also ruin the feeling of suspense.
When it comes to lobby dodging, a lock in timer would prevent all players from leaving a pre game lobby at a certain point, meaning that no matter who the killer picked to play, the survivors and killer must play it out)
Removing lobby entirely would be easier.
Survivors who haven't played against the killer 3 times at least will get a notification directing them to the killer's power breakdown. For reworked killers, this prompt would reappear the first 3 times, for example with Freddy's rework
Already exists.
All killer power breakdowns are available in an experience journal (this would track whether you've seen a certain killer and how many times you've encountered them and your escape rate against them)
Most people would like better data tracking, but killer breakdowns are already roughly available.
Bloodpoints are no longer spendable in the pre game lobby (incentivise instant readying with regards to killers being known to everyone. Survivorswho care will likely modifytheir builds to combat the killers power)
One of the few times it makes sense to spend blood points is in the lobby. Players aren't going to grind out BP levels for fun, its a time filler.
Bloodpoint cap is removed (compensates for no more spending in the pre game)
Its not going to happen because games like caps to create a level of forced engagement with the mechanics to increase retention.
TL:DR - I don't think any of these changes actually address the issue you bring up (new player experience, which lots of people agree BHVR needs to improve their tutorials for), while they would simultaneously add more wasted downtime.
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The problem with removing the pre game lobby entirely is the game could be alot less beginner friendly. The extra time could be a little less than 2 minutes, killers could also be revealed at the end of the lock in timer, but then newer survivors will be suprised by a killer they've never seen before and will have no idea how to beat them.
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The problem with removing the pre game lobby entirely is the game could be alot less beginner friendly.How?
Or put another way, how is the lobby making the game more beginner friendly?
The extra time could be a little less than 2 minutesThat becomes a lot more annoying than I think you anticipate.
killers could also be revealed at the end of the lock in timerThat's not suspense. Suspense is the feeling of being in a portion of the map, not hearing a TR for awhile, and worrying that a ghostface is actually stalking you. It's hearing a variety of different sounds and slowly coming to a realization on who is being faced.
will be suprised by a killer they've never seen before and will have no idea how to beat them.That's part of theme / long term appeal of the game. 'Here's the killer you are facing, here's the counterplay' is pretty dull.
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There's no point in arbitrarily upping the waiting times by a minute for minimal benefit.
Making the killer publicly revealed isn't gonna do much of anything.
No, it would guarantee the perfect counterpicks against a specific killer, which this game isn't really built for.
Legion/Plague? Unequip every healing perk and throw on Resilience. Doctor? 4 Calm Spirits, his tracking becomes completely useless. Spirit? 4 Iron Wills. Twins or Oni? 4 UB/WGLF/Exponential. Clown/Freddy? 4 Vigils.
It's not a wasted slot if you can guarantee the perk will be maximally useful. Calm Spirit sucks because there's not much reason to suppress screams, but if every killer was Doctor, I'd guarantee the use rate would skyrocket.
People will optimise their builds to counter killers as hard as they can if they are given the information. Most killers would become way harder to play, and certain killers such as Twins and Doctor would become nearly unplayable as they cannot deal with their best counterpicks in any capacity.
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The problem with that is what if they have a negative interaction woth that killer? Then they lose interest in the game if they know they can't beat these killers.
These changes are aimed entirely to make casual/beginner experience better. Theres nothing appealing about getting destroyed and not understanding why. They shouldn’t impact competitive or consistently playing users. The lobby itself doesn't help new player's at all, with my changes it becomes better for them to learn from their mistakes since they can know a power quickly and conveniently. Thats kinda why there would be extra pre game lobby time as well, so they can read up before the game starts (if it we're possible to make a power readable in the loading screen as well, that can help too). If there were ever a ranked gamemode, they could remove these features entirely since those players would be expected to understand all killer kits with their amount of hours
Tbh idk a single person who would care to be suprised about what killer they're facing. DBD for the most part is played competitively now, no one plays it like its a horror game. Letting people know the killer they're playing against is a small step into balancing the game and making the game more competitive. Again, a personal preference, but comp dbd is more fair and actually fun than pubs with 0 restrictions on OP #########, rather they focus more on less perk reliancy and instead your actual skill and knowledge on specific killers. I'd take that any day over this garbage lobby system
Loading screen tips also exist and essentially point out broad counterplay to a killers kit. Should they remove those too?
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You essentially just pointed out that running counter perks takes away from meta perk slots. You run calm spirit against doctor, you lose multiple 4 perk synergies. Its still better to use insane gen speed perks or what you want to use, than countering a killer power. And again, you still have no idea what the killer is running. They can be running knock out or something and counter a survivor's entire basekit. Killers don't base their perk choices around whos being played, they base them on meta perk trends, if they care enough to counter them.
Or they make unqiue builds that synergise with their power. Doctor still inflicts madness, and with that comes free information, harder skill checks, and the inability to perform any actions for 2 seconds. Doctor can run a full hex build with thrill of the hunt and huntress lullaby included, but you don't know that. No one runs counerforce since its not a meta trend, thus a killers chance of winning with these builds are pretty high (calm spirit also doesn't stop static blast from knocking you off actions, plus the restraint add on completely counters the perk)
Point being, it doesn't matter if they know what killer you're playing, sknce you still have the ability of having an unknown build
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Honestly what this game needs more than anything is a huge update to the tutorials. Especially for survivors.
Killer descriptions should be updated as well with short clips to demonstrate each ability, as well as more information about actual numbers (why do we need to look them up on a wiki anyway?).
Maybe survivors also should have some kind of killer specific MMR. That however could drastically increase matchmaking times, so I'm not sure how well that'd work out.
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Definitely, ill start brainstorming
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No, no, no, no, no. Oni? Just bring leverage, sloppy or blood echo, and your power is completely uncounterable
Plague? Thanataphobia forces a survivor to be uninjured at all times or they incur a massive speed penalty to survivors
Legion? Run batteries included, blood echo to force heal reduction and exausted. Getting individual frenzy hits and insta ending power is super easy since his power is uncounterable unless you win a pallet stun 50/50. His M1 is bad however, but that won't matter since he can exaust you and prevent either of these perks entirely, even though both arent really that good
Trapper? Run third seal and thrill, plus you can trap your totems and likely force people to go next from boredom
You have to see the point here. Everyone's perks are unknown still as they always have been. Killer perks can completely destroy survivors with power synergy, especially as trapper imo. Totems are super easy to defend its not even fair for survivors. Nothing is really changing if you really think about it, yeah theres no balancing for pub matches so knowing the killer can give some mental preparation, but otherwise theres little to no competitive advantage being gained
The only reason this could become a problem is in SWFs, for which i would say would disable the killer giveaway machanic entirely since 4 mans who play enough will know to run 4 completely different builds that can counter all playstyles a killer can attempt. SWFs still need some form of nerf if this were to be a thing I'll admit, ill be brainstorming
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But you can do all of that now and none of that changes what I said.
Plague can always run Thana right now anyway, but now you know before to gen rush with a toolbox and take off your med kit. Plague's already bring Thana, that doesn't change how you now know to bring the best counter to her before hand.
Legion can still run those right now and counter exhaustion, but you can still now know to not bring Dead Hard which is pretty mediocre against him. And Sprint Burst counters him pretty hard as you can dash out of his range. And if that did become meta on Legion (unlikely though, no one runs either of those perks, especially Batteries) you could just bring Vigil against Legion's and help reduce it. Or just not bring any Exhaustion perks and he wasted a perk.
Slinger is probably a better example of this than Legion (as Blood Echo is bad on him) - take off Dead Hard because he can play around it, but he can't play around Sprint Burst or Lithe as easily so bring those instead.
Oni's already can bring all of those perks, now you know it's Oni so take off that flashlight and bring an insta-heal or a speedy medkit to help nullify some of it.
That Trapper build is just bad. Trapper is already F tier, forcing him to run an F tier perk that can be destroyed to let him actually have a power is terrible. Trapper already has to run multiple slow down just to have a chance, forcing him to run a specific build and give him more places to walk around when he already has zero map pressure would kill him. And he still has to actually hit you, so one of you can just run around disarming everything at the start before he's even activated his perk.
No matter how you look at it, this would be a huge advantage. Even if you can't completely hard counter the killer, you still gain an advantage by knowing what it is and making your build as stacked as possible for this killer to maximum your efficiency as much as possible. I just picked the first examples I could think of, but there's a lot more minor things you can do that would give you potentially big advantage (such as knowing that you could bring a flashlight against Nemi to deal with his zombies, or if it's Huntress/Trickster you know to take off any locker perks because they likely have Iron Maiden)
As for SWFs, yes they run multiple builds to accommodate for multiple playstyles, but now they won't need to be as broad because they can see who the killer is. They can pick up to 4 builds that are built specifically for that killer rather than 4 builds built for a broad range of choices. No SWF right now is going to bring an anti-Twins or anti-Ghostface build, but if you see it is Twins or Ghosty what's the reason in not all bringing one?
And you can't nerf SWF, that's not possible and punishing people for playing with their friends is a bad idea in the long term.
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I feel like knowing how to counter a killer with different perk playstyles is the devs vision, I'm pretty sure they expect perks to be rotated almost every game, since so many perks have become better (apart of the meta) over the years. If tou see a survivors run toolboxes, killers instinctively would run more slowdown probably.
(This actually just gave me the idea to lock in survivors as well, so quick switching is a little harder to do. Still possible, but harder to do)
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Agree to disagree. I feel that they want you to be able to run whatever build you want and not have every game feel the same. They've gone and altered multiple perks/items that counter specific killers as well.
They removed all the flashlight effects. They removed all the killer specific effects like Adrenaline and all the Bear Trap ones. They changed the Decisive Strike numbers so much because it hurts specific killers more than others. They reworked Spine Chill and OoO because of how it harmed stealth killers.
Of course there are still perks that are stronger against certain killers than others (Calm Spirit against Doc, Iron Will against Spirit, Urban Evasion against Hag). But because you don't know who the killer is they aren't in every game so it's not an issue really. Yes you may have a game where people run the perks that make you weaker, but it's not every game. And you may run killers or perks that make them weaker. But since it's unknown what you are facing, every game is different. If you knew you could bring certain perks to gain an advantage, every game would start to feel the same, especially for killers.
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