Hot Take: Map Offerings Are Not An Issue

The issue is map design, actually.
The ability to ensure you go to a specific map itself quite literally is perfectly fine, in my opinion, there are many reasons to go to certain maps.
Accessibility, or sending yourself to a map where you can see better, is something that some people tend to do, as the color schemes on some maps can be unfriendly to colorblind players. I personally am red-green colorblind, so I tend to use Map Offerings to avoid going to Coldwind Farm, Toba Landing, or Eyrie of Crows.
In a similar boat, some people might want to go to specific maps for achievements. There are many "go to X map and do Y thing and escape" achievements that players need to get. Most of them require you to repair the main building Generator and escape, while others require you to escape many times or avoid being hit/injured. Not having the ability to send yourself to a specific map can hinder your ability to progress in these achievements in a meaningful time.
Finally, the meat and bones of the topic, map design.
The main reason why sending other players to a specific map is appealing to either respective role is because they are designed in a way that strictly benefits the side that brings them.
For example, Midwich is an extremely Killer-sided map with most pallets being really unsafe to play around, especially when accounting for Killer powers, and many perks benefit from the small map size, so Killers will send themselves there because it is beneficial to them.
Likewise, Eyrie of Crows is an extremely Survivor-sided map with most pallets being decently safe, having weird geometry that Killer can easily get snagged on, and most tiles chain into one another fairly well. There is no reason for a Survivor team to not bring themselves to this map every single game, especially when 4 Survivors bring 4 opportunities bring Map Offerings.
Instead of addressing the actual problem, being that these maps are poorly designed and only benefit a single side, BHVR is addressing the symptom of the problem, which is Map Offerings, and by extension they are causing more problems regarding other aspects of the game. To me, it feels like a really short-sighted solution to a more long-term issue.
Comments
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100% agreed. The change to Map Offerings is just the lazy way. It will still suck to play as Survivor on Haddonfield or Coldwind or as Killer on Badham. This does not change with the Map Offering-change.
IMO it is totally fine if you can ensure to go to a specific map. It is also fine that some Maps are more survivor-sided and others are more killer-sided. It is just the extend to which those maps swing in one direction or the other which does not make it fine.
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Tell that to our diminished stock of sac wards
Anyway so here's what we're thinking. Say you want to play SM Meyers. Obviously you're going to have an advantage on any indoor maps due to los blockers and poor at an obviously open map. How would you go about balancing something for that? Similar with other killers, some will almost always have either an advantage or disadvantage depending on what you do.
Second is less of a question and more of opinions but basically we're under the impression that you're kinda asking for map "standardization" as that's kinda the only way we see this being "fixed". That seems dull to us and would lead to more optimization and less RNG.
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Technically true.
Bad map design is the big problem, and map offerings are a way to increase the already existing issue.
The problem? Map balance is, always was, and always will be a very hard thing for BHVR to achieve.
Haddonfield is the prime example. Multiple versions, and none of them were good.
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I disagree only because I believe map offerings go against the chaotic rng/rps spirit of the game.
Map offerings are what give you the ability to take perks or play styles that are only viable on specific areas to abuse. For example, taking balanced landing on levels that favour Balanced, or using The Game/midwich for scream/starstruck abuse or indoor levels for Scratch Mirror.
I don't think you should be only trying to go for cherry picked conditions so you can have an easy time. The ability to swap to The Plague to counter medkits was removed for similar reasons.
I do actually agree that map design is the problem, but there's only so much of that you can abuse without prep. I can't wait until designing builds around maps will be a thing of the past.
I'm going to miss going to Toba 24/7 for both sides but it's for the greater good
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The accessibility issue will get fixed within the next patches by being able to increase or decrease the bringtness and more accessibility features will follow according to the roadmap.
Achievements are optional and if the players want to do them, that is their issue and not mine. In addition, killers don't have map specific achievements, so why do they have map offerings? Also, correct me if I'm wrong but Switch players can't even do them. It is only a small amount of players who wants every achievement ASAP. Most of the dbd community doesn't care about it. I usually see Map offering for Badham, Eyrie, McMillen, The Game, and Autohaven on the survivorside but never for Yamaoka, Toba Landing, Nostromo, Red Forest, and since its rework Haddonfield. Similar on the killer side: often a map where the killer has an advantage. players abuse the map offerings to get an unfair advantage since they know the map and are prepared for it. They don't do their achievements. The game is also balanced around the random factor which map you will get as this prevents players from being prepared or absuing specific stuff on these maps.
Next, you are right that there are extremes like Midwich and Eyrie are night and day for both sides. This is an issue that needs to be fixed -> maps should be overall more balanced, and there should be no extremes. However, this takes a long time, and sometimes the developers fail (Eyrie got a rework and still sucks while Haddonfield go three reworks and still sucks but now in a different way). However, the devs still try their best, and their map philosophy is much better than before since Ormond Lake, Toba Landing, and Nostromo are overall balanced maps. As a disclaimer; It is not really possible to make every map balanced as some killers and Perks perform on some maps better than on others like Dredge with Surge is a nightmare on Midwich while Billy loves Coldwind farms where Dredge suffers. The developers can also still rework maps after they nerfed/reworked map offerings - it's not either this or that choice.
Lastly, I rather think map offerings should get a rework and reduce the chances for the realm instead of increasing it. This would make them fair, and players can still avoid their most hated map. But the current version is problematic and needs a nerf/rework since it takes the fun away and forces players to use Sacrifice Wards instead of BP Offerings.
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Just as the elements on each map are randomized, the maps themselves should always be randomized as well. Nobody should get to pick where the trials takes place. I don't even like the 20% chance BS. Make map offerings avoid a map instead.
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I’m not saying you’re wrong, but every time this topic comes up, people’s suggestion is to redesign maps except they have absolutely no tangible ideas on how that can or should be done. This thread is no exception. Since it’s a total pipe dream to expect every single map to get remade, it’s a lot more realistic and feasible to deal with the most obnoxious part of unbalanced maps: the offerings.
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Agreed... I have nothing else to say
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nah ######### the map offerings they are only good for bully squads, achievements and for One sided matches
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Im not going to disagree, since my idea is very broad and isnt specific.
But in the same boat, I also dont want to make an insanely long thread or creating infographics and drawings to articulate my points specifically since it just takes a lot of time. None of this is to say I wont ever do it, but making something as comprehensive as that can take a lot of time.
Also I just wanted to moreso communicate that the community's mindset behind the change itself, that community perception that Map Offerings are the issue is flawed, because they are a symptom of a greater issue and the change is really short-sighted. This is moreso addressed towards the community than the developers, if that makes sense.
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Map offerings are an issue because map design is terrible.
If maps weren't so unbalanced and massively dictate which way the game goes, then offerings wouldn't be an issue. But because of how poorly designed they are, being able to handpick any map you want gives you an insane advantage. So because of this, map offerings are an issue right now and deserved the changes they got.
Map designs and balance should absolutely be addressed and be a top priority, it's honestly the biggest issue with the game right now, but fixing the vast majority of maps takes much, much longer than changing offerings does. So making offerings less effective is honestly a good change at this point, and if maps are ever balanced properly then offerings could potentially go back to being 100% chance at that point.
As for accessibility reasons, thankfully they are adding Gamma options alongside the map offering changes so this won't be much of an issue any longer and you won't require an offering to actually see the game :)
Achievements should be adjusted though so that they won't become more annoying to get, especially the RPD one…
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Map balance does seem a bit of pipe dream though... because realistically how do you balance maps for 38 different killer powers?
Even if you just manage archetypes you have:
- Rapid Dash Killers (Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Chucky)
- Accelerated M1 Killers (Spirit, Wraith)
- Long Ranged Killers (Huntress, Deathslinger, Unknown)
- Charge Instadown Killers (Hillbilly, Oni, Bubba)
- Stealth Instadown Killers (Ghost Face, Myers)
- Stealth Slowdown Killers (Pig, Sadako, Freddy)
- Mass Injured Based Killers (Legion, Plague, Twins)
- Loop Cut Off/Zone Killers (Artist, Knight, Doctor, Houndmaster, Demogorgon)
- Map Presense Killers (Dredge, Singularity)
- Short Ranged Anti Loop Killers (Trickster, Pyramid Head, Clown, Xeno, Nemesis)
- Trap/Setup Killers (Trapper, Hag, Skull Merchant)
- Multi powered killers (Dracula, Vecna)
Some simplification going on, but you get the idea... how exactly are you meant to balance a Map for all of these different gameplay styles realistically?
There are certain maps that are outliers for sure with areas that are clearly one sided or another... but majority of maps are really good for some Killers and really bad for others. E.g.
- Ormond is rough for a lot of Killers, but Singularity loves that map.
- The Game is terrible for a lot of Killers, but God tier for Sadako.
- Lery's is great for Stealth killers, and absolutely pain for Billy or Bubba.
Given the wild swing that different Killers have on maps, what exactly does "map balance" mean? Outside of the most egregious cases, everything else is this muddy question mark of what constitutes "balance".
The issue we therefore get is map offerings tend to be used to exploit something specific for either side, and while I do like the functionality of picking a map... this does remain an issue whilstsoever it cab be done reliably.
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Of course it's the maps. What else it would be when the offering sends you to specific picked map?
The problem is maps takes a loooooooong time. So instead of waiting years to fix every single map (and not every change/rework makes it better or fixes the issue), lets just make it RNG and not "I want my role to win" offering.
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Nah, I don't care of you send my trapper to eyrie or my blight to haddonfieldy map offerings need to go.
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- Check on your Mirror Myers friends. They might not be doing so hot after these changes.
- Classic BHVR, fix the symptoms and not the problem
- This indicates to me that The Realm Beyond initiative has been a complete and total failure. The results of it have been so destructive to map balance that players in the community have lost faith in the dev team and are saying they don't even want them to continue reworking the current maps. All the time and resources spent, all that was lost from the OG maps like the ample tall grass for Trapper, the horror atmosphere, and colors… in the end it really didn't matter as it was just putting lipstick on a pig.
Post edited by Nun_So_Vile on2 -
If the Map Design is an issue then the Map Offerings allow that issue to be exploited. It's pretty simple.
They absolutely need to rework the Outbreak Breakout achievement, though, especially with the nerf to Wake Up for that purpose.
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That the maps themselves are the real big problem is far from a hot take. People have been screaming that from the rooftops for years, and it's patently obvious.
The issue is that they'll never be balanced, so killing the offerings are probably the best thing we can hope for.
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Others, like @UndeddJester have already said what I was going to say. You can't make a map that is equally balanced for a Huntress (long open sight lines beneficial) and Ghostface (long open sight lines harmful).
I also don't think you per se need to. Even if there was a hypothetical, perfect map I think it would get boring without variety.
The issue isn't perfection, but how out of balance are we talking. If the killer gets a map that favors them a little, or hurts them a little, that's okay. If a little though becomes a lot, then that becomes a problem.
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Agree with a lot of what the OP said. When I read what they devs were proposing to do with map offerings, my heart sunk. It's annoying as killer to lose out in map offerings, but they are offerings that cost bp, we can always bring sac wards. Just because there is whining about something doesn't mean it needs 'fixed', some maps are poorly designed and favour certain killers, survivors or play styles, so what, that's the fun of it. Not everything that attracts whinging needs to be fixed! Map offerings are supposed to give an advantage, why do we need more offerings turned into junk?! My second killers were Mikey and Freddy. Freddy got revamped the way he did for reasons and purposes best known to others and I don't play him any more (maybe will relearn one day who knows) and Mikey I play for the fun of the mirror add ons that require map offerings to stand any reasonable chance. There will be other killers done over for this pointless change, Pig's Amanda's letter needs an indoor map for instance. Neither are like aura reading Nurse on Midwich, Mikey and Pig are weak killers with weak/situational add ons. Also as a general thing, lots of the maps aren't fun, some are. Raccoon is an excellent, well designed balanced map I want to play a lot as both killer and survivor; indoor maps are fun and the devs seem to have stopped creating them for whatever reason, some people bring them for fun, if people want to bring maps for fun let them, it benefits everyone it doesn't need to be nannied out of the game.
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cold take : i'm counting the days for map offerings to be sent into the shadow realm so i can take of sac ward from all my builds 🫡
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No, it's both. Map offerings and map balance are separate issues, even if they're related to each other. Because even if maps were more balanced, being able to guarantee a certain realm or map means there will be less map variety since people will always send themselves to the realms they are most familiar with, which often tend to be older maps and realms like MacMillan or Autohaven. The RNG of map selection is a big part of what keeps DBD feeling fresh, and map offerings really hamper this.
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