Oni 180s removed in PTB?
well guys, BHVR did it, they gutted skill expression for another killer on PTB. Unless this wasn't intended change (which i hope isn't) time to move on to another game.
Can anyone from BHVR tell if this is truly intentional or not?
Comments
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Not gonna miss being hit by PC exclusive attacks
If Oni needs help I hope he'll get something in exchange
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Thank goodness, that was pretty stupid, and the devs have already said that his power has a 90 degree cap.
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The 180 you are referring to is the curve he can do when doing the hit from Demon Dash? Because if it is so then RIP Horned Beefcake.
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honestly, no number tweaks will be able to make up for obliterating half of his skill expression. Even if he becomes stronger than he already is in any way, that won't be it anymore. 180s are literally signature of Oni
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well, the change is intended, time to say farewell to dbd and move onto another game because there is no point in investing so many hours into one tricking such a cool and fun killer just for him to be treated this way because skill expression is not allowed :D
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See you in 2 days.
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ohh sure, if they decide they'll revert it maybe
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what are we even calling skill expression anymore…
180s are pc-only and went against the dev intent for 90 degrees being the most oni should be allowed to get away with. he's skill expressive outside of exploits, anyway, and perfectly strong to boot.
great change from bhvr if you ask me.
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Good. It should've been removed much sooner
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Get ready for the rise in PC Oni’s this month trying to get the last bit of value out of their exploit (I mean tech).
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A considerable amount of the killer's power being held up by a glitch which only PC players can pull off was not a good idea. And even among PC players, it was only really usable by people who put a lot of time and effort into playing this one killer.
I'm glad they're fixing it so they can potentially buff him if he starts underperforming.
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Feel free to borrow a 🎮 and a PS5 and show the realms all this skill expression.
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On one hand, I do like the skill expression of Oni flicks, I think it gave Oni something interesting and fun to toy around with, and to me, it made playing as/against the Oni more exciting. I know this will definitely be an unpopular opinion but I seriously enjoyed it.
On the other hand, Console players were unable to do that, since it was not an intended effect. And I think DBD should be in a position where Console and PC players should be relatively equal in terms of performance, and one platform should not have an inherent advantage over the other.
Part of me also feels like it was around for long enough to become part of Oni's core identity, kind of like Billy's original curving. I feel like there could have been a middle compromise with this, where they fix it since it isnt intended, but make some of it as a basekit change. Maybe have the turning angle be 135* instead of the bugged 180* but more than the current (fixed) 90*.
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If a Killer is only good because of a "tech" that only a minority of players are able to do, then that should be changed.
Having PC exclusive features is dumb.
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Same ######### with maps like toba intentionally blocking huntress orbitals. Because kids couldn't handle it. Can't handle a strong nord woman. But passively healing 3 health states in under 8 seconds by pressing a single button is ok. That's skill™
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He won't be suddenly better for console, he is exactly same. Just worse for PC too…
It's funny you think he will get something in exchange.1 -
That's not even what he said. How do you interpret that into his post?
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My main issue was his naive idea, he will actually be changed for it, he won't be.
This change is not going to get any new players on Oni, only remove PC players who played for flick, which I expect is majority (including myself).
So it's just worse for the killer no matter what.
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I would get behind it, if they actually changed something else for him along with it. But they didn't…
He is just worse and less fun for Oni mains, because those could use flick. Players who already didn't play Oni are not going to play him anyway.2 -
My main issue was his naive idea, he will actually be changed for it
I'm interested where you read that. He never said that.
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Yeah, went to PTB to try it. That's just bad…
Well, luckily Blight stay and can flick to some extent.
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If Oni needs help I hope he'll get something in exchange
Console clearly needs help with Oni, so why he wasn't changed along with this nerf?
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That doesn't answer my question.
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I quoted his message, exact line. What do you not understand about it?
He claimed Oni will be changed if he needs it. I say it's naive and he will not get any change for a long time.
People here claim it's good so he is not PC only killer, but he is still not good for console anyway. He will just be equally bad for everyone and boring. That seems as terrible change to me.0 -
He claimed Oni will be changed if he needs it.
No, no he did not claim that.
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This. In the long term it's better. Close the gap between PC and console and then strengthen him in a way every Oni player can benefit from.
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I can't really help you more than that…
and he is another
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Can we stop this "its a tech when I use it, an exploit when you do" tribalism in the community? Regardless of how any of us feel about flicks and/or how intentional they are/were, it is a fact that skill expression is hurt by this change, and on a killer who was not even top tier (let alone being so due to the tech specifically.) People stating that Oni's skill expression was reduced by this change are not wrong, as there is nothing about this change that would give him more potential, only less.
This is all before getting into any type of talk about how/when glitches (and even outright exploits) become intentional mechanics after the fact, ranging from combos in fighting games to rocket jumping or bunny hopping in various FPS to looping in this very game. Call everything unintentional an exploit even when it benefits you, or reserve the term for things that actually break the game like OoB/unreachable locations. Or even bugs (that have since been patched thankfully) like clipping into lockers or backpack nurse before the m2 change to her blink attack.
This post is neither for nor against the removal of Oni's flick. That said I do think it should come with compensatory buffs that help high skilled play, as skill expression is something this game desperately needs more of in general. Maybe someday.
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This is all before getting into any type of talk about how/when glitches (and even outright exploits) become intentional mechanics
Funny how Knight's exploit used by survivors become a feature.
To increase skill expression, they simply needed to increase console sensitivity, I think they did it with Billy rework. (at least what I heard from console player)
Oni was simply reverse Billy, he could change direction a lot after the dash instead at start, not like it was game breaking or whithout counterplay…
RIP Oni-6 -
Before McLean left the company he made Blight playable on console, but they also doubled the sensitivity with a controller and stated that was the furthest they could go.
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Even if you add hope to it, it still falls under naive person.
He hopes for something that is not going to happen.
Another message is he will get buffs if he is underperforming. Well, he already is underperforming by everyone who can't flick….-2 -
I highly doubt it was impossible to let console turn camera more for it. This was just easier, but doesn't change the fact it sucks for Oni mains and doesn't improve anything.
I am looking forward next survivor complaining there are too many Blights.
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Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss ass posts
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Look at your first comment and do some self reflection. You seem to lack in that aspect.
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The issue is that people take "I got outplayed by a skilled play" and confuse it with "There was nothing I could have done differently." Checkmate scenarios are allowed to exist, but people want safe guards to prevent them outright due to frustration and/or a lack of introspection on their own play up to that point. "I was out positioned" isn't as strong of a defense as "there's a nurse moving faster than 100% instadowning everyone while carrying someone" in my opinion, and you could certainly learn more (better positioning) with one than the other (just don't exist in her TR ever?)
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Except, Oni mains couldn't enjoy that.
PC Oni mains could, but everyone else was out of luck.
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I have yet to see console Oni main…
Now everyone is out of luck, what exactly improved here?
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Maybe actual skill expression is understanding and working to get the best out of your killer's power within the limits the devs intended? You know, instead of throwing your mouse across the room at every tile to get a free bs hit?
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As I said in my original post, it's an exploit because it is both unintended and unfair. Firstly, in the traditional sense: my own play both as and against Oni makes me believe he is very well balanced without 180ing and too powerful when using it, but secondly in the sense that it is unfair for controller players that Oni continues to exist in a state where they cannot under any cirucmstances utilize the same resources in power that a mouse and keyboard player can.
I sincerely apologise for whatever I did that made you think I was speaking with the intent to leave Oni in an undeservedly weak state - what that act was, I would hope you would share, so I don't come across as biased like that again.
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"I didn't see it, so it must not exist"
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there are many bugs/glitches/unintended mechanics in games that were never changed by devs because they were fun and had skill aspect behind them, pure example are bhopping and surfing in CS games
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The issues with using a controller are dead zones in the sticks and some input delay.
The sticks have a momentum-like effect, where you swing the sticks and have to hold it for a second to get to full speed. This is why camera movement and moving in general cannot be snappy & responsive compared to using a mouse. Most games offer acceleration options to mitigate this but DBD does not.
The input delay is about half a second or so, and affects everything you do. For example, imagine playing as Hag. Those using a mouse would rebind the attack to the scroll wheel to insta-swing as you teleport. With a controller you can mash all you want but never insta-swing when you teleport, and the surv gains distance. I don't think there's anything they can do about that delay at all, it'll never match the quickness of pressing a keyboard.
All this is without taking into consideration fps or game performance in general on the consoles either. I encourage our PC cousins to borrow a friend's PS4 or whatever, pick up a controller, play as killer and find out for themselves.
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Another killer losing his fun because some survivors didn't like the expression of skill? Great job bhvr...
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unfortunately, this isn't just a "survivors hating on killer" thing since i already saw killer mains on reddit also be happy about the change purely because "omg console can't do it, deserved".
It truly is sad.
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Am I missing something? When did I bring up "oh well if it was fun for the Oni then I'd change my mind"? You're the second person to respond this way.
It provides a benefit only to the subset of Oni players that are KB+M and makes him too powerful. It deserves to be removed.
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Hmmmm... I'm not sure gents. I do see where @PetTheDoggo is coming from...
I am a console player, always supporting narrowing the PC/console divide, so am I happy to see the flicka gone...
However I have played my share of console Oni... and when you have killers with unrestricted access to their power like Nurse, Blight, Billy, and I have a feeling the Ghoul is gonna be in a similar camp... a killer like Oni who is literally the most basic of m1 killers until he gets his power, his power has to be really good when he gets it...
I am certainly not an Oni expert, but handling that turn lock, especially on controller, is really rough and frustrating against decent survivors on any kind of remotely tight tiles... A lot of the time you simply can't get a hit, which leaves the power in a place where it doesn't feel as impactful as it should be for the work you need to put in…
While I'm no fan of BS 180 degree flicks... the fact he's been given nothing to improve him leaves Oni with this pretty sizable question mark of why bother playing him over other killers?
Like even Chucky has an OK stealth and unique mindgames at tiles thanks to his small size, even with his slide and dice power in flux... but Oni is literally a discount Hillbilly without some kind of improvement after the loss of his flicks.
Though to be fair, it would be nice to have max turn speed at base for demon strike on controller Oni... and/or individual turn speeds for different killer powers in general separate from your normal sensitivity.
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180s make him too powerful?
A killer that is M1 for the most part and hardcore relies on basic M1 chase rules to be even able to earn his power (which can be abused by survivors in order to delay his first hit by significant margin to the point where he gets power too late) and has a power that is supposed to be strong (he is already strong in his power with or without 180s) is somehow too strong just because of 180s?
Are we even playing the same game?
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fun thing is, BHVR recently announced keyboard + mouse support for dbd on consoles, yet they still chose to do this
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Some might exist, but i bet it's fraction of Pc Oni mains. Well, not it's going to be fraction overall instead. I personally liked to play against Oni and that is going to be gone.
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majority of community was always speaking how they love facing Oni and how he is one of the most well balanced killers in the game. Now suddenly, when 180s are removed in PTB, somehow he was problematic
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