8.6.0 PTB Feedback
8.6.0 PTB Feedback
Xeno changes still mostly need to be reverted
Here's my thoughts on the changes after playing with them a bit
- [CHANGE] Increased tail attack charge time to .35 seconds (was .2)
- [CHANGE] Increased tail attack charge sound volume for survivors
- [CHANGE] Reduced missed attack cooldown time to 2.5 seconds (was 3)
- [CHANGE] Increased the Killer Instinct range when exiting a tunnel to 16m (was 12m)
Tail attack nerf isn't my preferred direction but it feels fine to play with, reduced missed cooldown is also very nice as to encourage xeno to use their tail on turrets instead of m1ing, other changes aren't significant enough to care about one way or the other imo
- [CHANGE] Decreased the time it takes to get out of a tunnel to 1.5 second (was 2.25)
I would usually overestimate the impact of a change like this but in this case I underestimated it, this feels totally ridiculous to play with and should definitely be reverted, makes xeno so much less about chasing and more about popping up next to them with almost no time for them to react and getting a free hit. Tunnel exit time on live is fine, don't fix what's not broken
- [CHANGE] Increased amount of fire needed to burn The Xenomorph out of crawler mode to 175 (was 100)
- [CHANGE] Increased delay before the Xenomorph’s heat starts to dissipate to 15s (was 1)
- [CHANGE] Decreased the Xenomorph’s heat dissipation rate to 2/s (was 25)
These changes remove the main skill expression of xeno which is having good reaction time to avoid getting knocked out of power. Now it doesn't matter how good your reaction time is, you're eventually gonna get knocked out of power no matter what, and this essentially duplicates the issues of double turrets onto single turrets as well which is not good! These should be reverted entirely, not just tweaked
Addon changes are all fine
If the devs are really looking to nerf turrets at a high level they should remove double turret setups since they remove all input from xeno, and I think the best way to do this would be to make xeno immune to turrets for 5 seconds after breaking one
On top of this, without double turrets xeno getting knocked out of power is entirely a skill issue, so faster power recovery in tunnels should be removed too so xeno can't correct their mistake so easily
Comments
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Sucks that another killer had to be ruined because survivors don’t wanna learn to get better.
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they actually neutered this killer and gave them zero counterplay against both good and bad survivors. awful changes
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tbf just because the changes are bad doesnt mean theyre a nerf
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but zeno is weaker now which is what nerf means
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no they're not
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You think the Xeno morph was made stronger by these changes?
Can you explain how you came to conclude that?
TBH I only got 1 Xeno game on the PTB due to the massive wait time. I'm going to keep waiting before I try to fully articulate the game play changes.But the hot take after that one game is, this is terrible. The tail delay adds seconds to chases that could not afford them. The turrets are completely over powered. As an example, Xeno approaches a gen in progress, he needs to pressure the gen. There is a turret behind a low object with an open angle on the gen, the Xeno can not see this turret on approach. The Xeno hits snd takes an injury state on the survivor who then counter plays with the "W" key. The turret fires while Xeno is in attack cooldown. The Xeno loses his power and he would have to chase the injured survivor with M1 only. I figured we'd learned from every other M1 only killer that they feel terrible to play.
The add on pass, and there simply won't be time to test them all looks equally malicious in its effects.
Coming out of a tunnel is faster. This is a buff. It makes the opening hit faster. Dedicated, mid skill survivors always complain about lethal pursuer. Why would you decide to buff the one thing that the seemingly catered to audience hates?
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First off I would without a doubt say the tunnel exiting buff does more than the tail attack speed nerf, I did some 1s and there was genuinely zero times where that nerf made a difference, I don't doubt those times exist but they're def minimal compared to how insane the buff out of those two are. As for the turret changes really not much has changed, at worst they do a little bit but realistically coordinated survs are probably gonna want to set up double turrets just as they do now to prevent you from having any chance of getting another hit in between turrets. Combine all that with the faster missed attack cooldown letting you catch up faster after tailing a turret, we likely have either a slight nerf, sidegrade, or slight buff, nowhere near a massive nerf like people are acting like it is.
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The tunnel exit buff appears to be intended to piss people off. I'm not sure though, because you really only lean on that when defending a three gen, when the survivors will push the generator and play unsafe, and this has not happened in any of my PTB Xeno games because I haven't tried to manipulate the situation into evolving, Its not a core change to test. It also does effect the open of the match, when survivors tend to be disoriented and disengaged. I guess it'll be an appreciated minor buff, but its not adequate compensation if the goal was to have Xeno play completely differently.
The tail changes played out as poorly thought out once bundled with the other changes, they add time to loops that Xeno could control before, which might be fine in isolation, considering that the wind up might now allow additional time to react to survivor movement after they attempt to dodge a tail strike. This showed up a lot in the heavily scripted loops, the ones where players know exactly how much space they need. These are terrible loops anyway from a killer perspective, I usually don't engage in them. The only upside with Xeno here is most of them ended in a vault type situation where the Xeno would dominate most of the time. Its not playing out like that with the changes, and that is bad. For short wall loops, I don't see much change, players are still face in to the objects they are not reacting to anything and Xeno has to figure the edges of the box to slide the tail over. 100% unintended janky compensation that players evolved to utilize in response to poor M1 killer performance and the developers claim as intended or not intended, their mood, monetary needs depending.
So full match wise it looks like a pretty bad nerf to performance and a buff to the aggravation level your average user will encounter.
These are bad things.
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@Lettuchia :I don't think you know how bad this is on the Xenomorphs ability. This is making the survivor side of this killer way stronger making playing Xenomorph impossible. If you think this is a buff you need to play this killer before you say he's over powered. He's already a low pick killer and this will make anyone who starts him quit immediately. Killers are supposed to be hard to play against but also balanced I'm a way that it's possible to win against them. Balancing out things. If you only play survivor you have no room to complain until you play both sides of the game. That's just my take on this matter hate all you want:
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I have him p100d, and you haven't provided explanations for any of the points you're making so i have no other way of responding to any of this
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Are you saying that the tunnel exit buff only helps in 3 gen situations or? Because that's just objectively false, literally just go through the tunnels up to someone on a gen and with this change getting a hit becomes so free.
I've tested the tail change myself already and it literally barely feels any different, this nerf does not have a concrete effect on any loops such as you're describing it, worst case scenario you have to play a bit more patiently and that's it.
The tail wind up nerf is a smaller nerf than the tunnel exit time is a buff by a mile and it's not even really a discussion
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Keep in mind the PTB assume ably exists to allow a wide pool of players to mash on things and see how the changes effect a somewhat reasonable spread of matches, so its subjective data based heavily on what I see, per map, per survivors and every other variable available here.
The tunnel buff is a positive for the killer. It will not be used much based on my experience before PTB and during PTB. When it is used it is likely to make the least capable survivors angrier, not happier. That is my reasoned conclusion. My subjective take is, this is a bad change.
The tail changes are more difficult to provide predictions for because the wide variety of situations in which the tail can be used will not be fully tested by any one player. But based on before and after PTB experiences, again, its a nerf. The reasoning based on both pools of experience are due to at window and pallet vaults the delay increases the time to hit. it will reduce the amount of situations that Xeno resolves in his favor. However it should be nice to be able alter the trajectory of the hit and this might be a buff around some short walls and those tall walls such that they can be flicked over. Honestly, this again runs into the problem of how much testing can one player get done in public matches with this specific aspect of the update? Not enough I reason. So all told, this seems to be a nerf again.
You can attempt to end a conversation with comments natured so as to be dismissive, but its disconnected from the cause and effect nature of testing and development. Therefore, not helpful to the discussion.
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I don't know what else you want me to say when you're not saying anything that can be responded to in any other way :/ ignored
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Well, I was implying you'd want to go run a bunch of PTB tests and see how it played out, stressing both map pressure and tail in chase usability, paying specific attention to match start and close when tunnel surprises are usually most impactful.
But I suppose ignoring the dissenting opinion is also an option you could take.
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Not ignoring the discussion just you since you're not reasonable :///
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I am currently representing the dissenting opinion.
Ignoring me is equivalent to ignoring the dissenting opinion.
However, perhaps someone else will provide you with test results you find more reasonable. I personally hope so, as I mentioned earlier a lot of results would be best for forming an opinion of the changes as a whole, whole matches considered.
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Clearly, the Turret changes are bad. Can't recall anyone giving positive feedback on that.
The tail changes are good, it encourages Xeno to go for more tail attacks but also gives Survivors a reasonable (kinda) time to react. As it is on live, it isn't reactable.
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