Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
how I would of stopped the going next on hook
first I make it so you can still unhook yourself only different is the 3 attempts don't take Progress so the time be the same as if the didn't attempted the unhook
also with Slippery Meat you just be able to do how many attempts perk has,all unhooking self perks none have to be changed.
2nd Struggle Skill Checks could go or stay I wouldn't care but if stayed I make them just give points and maybe a little Progress to live on the hook a little longer otherwise Struggle Skill Checks misses don't take Progress away so no more miss 2 skill check and bye it would just go down slowly as if they were hitting the Struggle Skill Checks.
so either way they can't have they easy way out anymore
so what you guys think?
Comments
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That's fine and all but these types just stand under the hook or run at the killer.
It's a mentality issue not a mechanic issue.
3 -
They're approaching with this issue backwards imo. Treating the effect, and not the root cause isn't going to change anything.
The best hope is to address why people give up on hook, at least some of the reason. The biggest being that the meta is not allowing survivors to actually play the game.
Hopefully, the anti camp, anti tunnel, and anti slug they've announced will do something, anything meaningful to address those issues, and the problem should lessen.
But they're implementing this in phase 2, while "anti go next" is phase 1. So I guess we'll see.
7 -
Sorry, but i've been facing people giving on hook on the first chase against a Wraith. I can't get a good start as a killer that people immediatly give up; as solo survivor, people get downed instantly and just give up, leaving all of the others to their own luck.
I don't agree that people are giving up on hook just because they can't play the game. They are giving up because The can't play the match EXACTLY as they want, which is a much bigger issue because its a community problem. Everyone needs to learn that they will have matches were they will have the upper hand and matches were they will have bigger challenges, as killers and as survivors. There is not much to do. I don't play a lot of other online games but i don't remember any other game that have that many people that want to go next as DBD.
This would give survivors a free 12% chance to unhook themselves for free, is not a good idea.
They need to remove this mechanic if you don't have Deliverance/Anti-Camp meter is full and rework slippery meat. Also, remove the skill checks from the struggle phase so people can't kill themselves on 2nd.
1 -
Ideally they'd fix everything first, sure. But there are some issues here:
- What needs to be "fixed" (and why people are going next) varies depending on who you ask
- These fixes aren't going to happen overnight, no matter what BHVR chooses to do
- People going next all the time is actively ruining people's games, and for some is worse than slugging/camping
- Some people will find reasons to go next, regardless of the state of the game
Sometimes you have to triage and stop the bleeding before you do the complex surgery.
3 -
I've always said that yes, there are petty people. But people aren't becoming more petty over time, especially not in the numbers people are claiming to see (i.e. "go next epidemic"). It's a symptom of the games health, and the devs' deliberate balance decisions have actively made the problem worse over time.
It will depend on what and how they implement some kind of "anti go next" as they've claimed. I'm waiting for the details myself, but I honestly don't know what they have planned.
Even just looking at it in a vacuum (as OP is doing) and just removing hook attempts entirely, it doesn't solve anything. People will follow the killer around, point at a hook, deliberately miss every skill check on a gen, make vault notifications to annoy the killer into getting them out of the game.
I just don't see that as a feasible option without either leaving loopholes (like I described above) or being so specific that your going to have an insane number of false positives. Am I missing skill checks because I'm new, throwing, or because tombstone Myers will instantly kill me if I do anything else?
I think my biggest problem is that most of these discussions are people with what I can only describe as a "punish survivors" mentality. People basically expecting that giving up should result in a hardware ban, send all of their BP, iri shards, and aurics to the killer as an apology, and have the IRS audit them just to drive the message home. At least if it's a survivor... Since I've seen those same people say that if the killer decides a game is lost they should be able to surrender after 2 minutes with no other penalty. The discrepancies can be sometimes so biased it's offensive with some people.
If they're already looking to address (hopefully in a meaningful way) some of the reasons people are going next, (such as being found first means you don't get to play the game) then I expect that will help alleviate the problem a decent amount. There's no magic pill that will fully solve the problem, including the "punish them all" solutions.
4 -
To be fair, is not to punish survivor for disliking the game, but making "going next" to try to find a "better match" a worse option - or even am impossibility. The problem is not that someone is not having fun and should be punished, the thing is someone is throwing their matches for ANY REASON, literally any reason, harming the game of 4 others.
Going next on killer is harder because:
1) Killer queues are longer - at least in my region. So if you just throw your match, you will need to wait 5 to 10m to get another match. So its better to play the match you have than trying to find another one;
2) Killer don't have any way to go next as fast as survivors do - they need to wait for survivors to get out before they can go to another match. And when the killer just give up, survivors tend to farm points before finishing the gens - they are right, they deserve this BP - which only makes the killer "go next" impractical.
I hope that with the changes BHVR wants to implement people tend to play the game with less frustration and if they are not in the mood to play, go play something else. I rather wait 10m to have a good match than have a 5m queue to get a 2 minutes match because someone decided to "go next" after the first chase.
2 -
What I have been observing is that the "go next" epidemic became more prevalent after MMR (SBMM) got introduced, DC penalties got taken away, and especially after patch 6.1.0, when the big meta shift took place. Then came Chess Merchant, and so on, where the game got stacked more and more against the survivor side. This culminated in patch 6.7.0 when medkits got gutted, and since then, the go-next epidemic has been very prevalent.
- The main issue with MMR is that the matchmaking draws from a pool of players that widely range in skill. Choy (on youtube) did a video talking about this issue, and since you have 4 main groups of MMR, where the highest group is undoubtedly the largest, taking up 1/3 of the entire MMR rating, you get players ranging from what could be a rank 7 (with the old system) to a top rank 1 player. This happens because the matchmaking prioritizes matchmaking speed over quality, and you will more often than not run into players that are way beyond your own skill level, unless you start going on a long losing streak, where you will eventually be matched against someone who is clearly below your skill level.
- DC penalties got taken out when bots could replace players, so those who are salty enough instead resorts to offing themselves on the hook, to prevent their place to be taken up by a bot.
- Yes, many survivor players hated the meta shifts, and especially the medkit nerfs in patch 6.7.0, since it affected soloqueue players more than it did SWF.
I don't think being found first is the entire reason why people are going next, but the more likely scenario of being tunneled out first might be the real problem here.
3 -
People keep saying that, it's because of x thing the killer does, but that is not the case with my games. I get survivors opting out the moment I hook them for the first time. I'm nowhere near them, finding/chasing other survivors, doesn't matter. 3v1 and here I am having to weigh playing nice with kid gloves, afk, or rip the bandaid off.
Maybe survivors need to look a bit into how their behavior is impacting the game for others. I'm sure the remaining three are so happy being one down with 5 gens.
-2 -
You didnt see the previous 5 games where it WAS the issue.
You guys have to think a bit more macro to understand this.
Maybe the last 5 matches was throws, unfair addons, bad behavior, and now they loaded into a match with someone running no mither, running to the basement and activating invocation crows, along with 0 prog on gens within the first down.
Id agree with the above poster about treating the symptom and not the problem. Ie 0 coordination tools, no lobby loadouts, bad killer behavior (excessive humping while slugged), and maybe even tunneled (skill issue sure, but MMR is broken in this game), int challenges/archives, etc…
When you say YOU dont see it you are correct. You dont personally see it, and I hate to say it, but its because you arent asking why and just assuming "well they are just terribads/grumpy"
quotations used above as that is not EXACTLY what you are thinking, but in the general sense these people are just dismissed.5 -
This is better, should be added to their upcoming changes as well. The loss of progress on hook only punishes inexperienced players
-2 -
Exactly, the intent here clear seems to be making it less of a pain to finish a match out than to go next.
And yeah, going next as killer is really impractical.
I play both sides pretty evenly (well, probably like 60/40 surv:killer at this point) and I see it from both sides.
And it's just my own experience, but I don't see much cause for most of the going next I see on either side. When playing killer I don't tunnel, I don't camp, I don't play hated killers (well, except maybe Plague), and I only sweat even a little against obvious SWFs.
Even with that being the case, I see a fair number of people going next. Or trying to; I will not comply with a surv who wants out. I save them for last. And I don't see much cause, it's usually really early and for seemingly no reason.
And while I do see teammates quit because of killer BS when I'm playing surv, most of the time it's for no reason I can see. I mean, there's only so much that can happen in the first 90 seconds of a match that could be a rational reason to quit. And that's when I see most of them.
If a person is generally annoyed to the point that they can't just play each match as a standalone thing, they should finish their current match and do something else rather than ruin the next match for everyone else.
And I'll keep saying this: if DBD's BS makes a person not want to play, that's totally understandable. But they shouldn't go next, they shouldn't queue up.
3 -
Yea I mean when people say "i see no reason" its not really something I can take at face value.
Your "no reason" is different from everyone else. And just your view on 90 seconds of a match, many disagree. I even do, as I run bond open handed I see if we have afkers. And if the killer just goes and takes advantage of that, I have about a 99% chance of guessing what will happen next.
Most the time when I am playing, I have a good sense why they are going next. There are very few and rare times I am completely lost as to why they are giving up or DCing.
I want to say "no reason" is about 2% of all give ups and DC's, that I see. This may require perks like lethal though to determine sometimes, specifcally early DCs. I can tell if someone is just giving up because noone is touching a gen and its already the first down.
The others I can determine what happened fairly easily.2 -
The problem with this is there'd be little reason not to take your 3 attempts if there's no penalty for failing. You either try to unhook yourself and succeed, or you fail and can still be rescued by a teammate with no consequence.
I don't think adding what is essentially an ~11.5% chance (cumulative chance of 4% with 3 attempts) to unhook yourself completely for free is a good idea.
2 -
12% chance not much and you want them stay in the game or go next?
the anti go next coming where you get a matchmaking ban and lost a grade could kill the game because I'm sure more then half the player base go next on hook most just stop playing altogether.
at less my plan would keep them in the game they have to either dc or stay in the game tho who run up the to the killer to get out we can report them there not much we can do about that.
-3 -
like I said posted above me you want to stay in the game or not?
you know what I try my 3 attempts in most of my games yes I hit Struggle Skill Checks so not trying kill my self but you know what I get a survivor who feel like doing the unhook animation over and over again to teach me a lesson or something every time I record amd report and I'm sick of it.
I mean you say they try unhooked them self for free like what do you want to happen?
-4 -
I mean, being able to unhook yourself without any drawback is one of the strongest things you can have in the game as it's one of the easiest ways to completely destroy a killer's pressure. That's why Deliverance is such a strong perk when used properly. I don't feel like adding a chance of having that basekit would really feel fair is all.
2 -
thing is it 4% not like Deliverance which is 100% if you save someone from hook safely and Slippery Meat just more 4% attempts
you said this
(You either try to unhook yourself and succeed, or you fail and can still be rescued by a teammate with no consequence.)
so again what do you want? you don't like my idea but you don't like people DC or going next on hook so again what kind of consequence you want?
because putting a ban on going next on hook will little kill the game I'm 100% sure on that.
but maybe that what people want to have happen I don't know
-1 -
here another idea to my idea how about you have to wait for each unhook attempts
like when you first hooked you can try one time after have to wait a bit for the 2nd one.
-2 -
They shouldn’t be implementing anything for it at all if they aren’t going to fully make this a team game. Right now the only way that it’s a team game is if you’re a SWF, but even then not truly.
And the single biggest fact to that is that my “teammates” do not have to survive the trial along with me in order for me to win.
By saying that going next is a detriment to the “team” you’re now saying it’s a team game. But there is no incentive to do anything for anyone else. The game in SoloQ (which is the largest base of players) has always been 1v1v1v1v1
This is why things like sandbagging happen because it’s about what is beneficial for “me” not for “you”. So why are we being forced to be part of the “team” for one aspect, but not the others? If to give penalties to people who don’t want to be in toxic games, then where are the penalties for people who repeatedly sandbag every game? If you have some technology that can detect when people are intentionally trying to get out of the match then you should be able to detect when people intentionally are constantly running the killer to somebody else to get them off of their own ass.
Plain and simple you can’t make decisions that suggest we are part of a team when everything else about the gameplay says that we are not.“But … someone giving up makes the game harder on the other survivors.”
Sure, and someone sandbagging also makes the game harder for the other survivors.
Look people have said plenty of times before this is a game and people should be able to play how they want. And if that involves removing yourself from a toxic game and get a different match, you should have the choice to do that in the same manner that someone can decide that they would like to make the game easier for themselves by making it harder for you when sandbagging.2 -
You're always going to have people who 'go next,' so to speak. Even if you make the game as fun as possible for everyone, you'll never completely stop players from giving up on the hook or disconnecting. It's obviously frustrating, and just like with tunneling, nobody enjoys losing a teammate in the first minute of a match. I try to see it as a challenge, things happen. I've played with people who are way more competitive than I am, but after several intense matches in a row, they get burned out, say they're done, and give up the on hook. It's tough when someone quits mid-match. Even if you tweak the game's mechanics, they'll just find ways to loop easier so the killer can catch them.
3 -
If you are going to DC/go next on the 6th game then don't bother pressing Ready. How about the other three survivors? Think about their last 5 games and tell me it's fair to put them in a 3v1 at 5 gens? Why does one player's butt hurt infringe on everyones elses enjoyment?
2 -
I cant tell you these things only the perspective of one person.
As going next and dcing seems to be dismissed rather than anyone asking why these things are happening. In terms of "one person infringing on everyone else's enjoyment" you dont even need people to go next or dc in soloQ for that to be a true statement.
So I dont really have an answer for that one.-1 -
You definitely need to punish giving up on hook and not try to find and fix why they do it. People will give up on hook because it’s a Huntress. How do you fix that? You can’t. Everybody is different and certain people simply don’t want to play against certain killers. That can’t be fixed, no matter what you do.
3 -
but why should we keep unhook attempts in the game? Not only it is unhealthy due to ease of giving up at the current moment, but with this change it makes RNG be able to impact matches even harder than it does atm.
Free self unhooks are unhealthy for the game when they are unconditional.
2 -
Being able to just do 3 self unhook attempts for free would just be a straight up huge survivor buff, that's unwarranted. I'd rather we go for the boring solution and remove self unhook attempts outside of Deli and Wicked, then rework Slippery Meat, Up the Ante and luck offerings. I wish they'd add an option to spectate your teammates while you were on hook. Would make being on hook feel less boring.
Having no self unhook would really suck in the 2v1 though since you can't give up on hook to let the other person get hatch.
0 -
Having them in the game in these conditions is not ideal. I rather not play a match where every surv can have a free deliverance with 12% chance. If they don't want to stay in the game the don't need a buff, they just need a set of incentives to play (nothing that directly affect the outcome of the match) and disincentives to go next.
Also, even with this change there will be people who will just wait to be rescued and run to the killer to be put on the hook again.
If we get a massive deband from this kind of player i don't see a issue at - they just REFUSE to play the game if not in THEIR terms, which is not healthy in any way. If the "anti-go next" makes the game healthier in the long term i will support it. There is no need to try to keep those who don't want to stay.
-2 -
why everyone say it free deliverance I played 10 matches try all 3 attempts in every match got off the hook one time
few days before that I try 10 match was able to unhook 2 times that was match back to back.
what that tell me the 4% is random I also used luck offering
unhooking self just as random as this whole game.
-2 -
Wording it differently, its a basekit Deliverance with 10% chance of happening without any downside. You also need to remember that it will be used for every survivor, so its 4 different people with 10% of chance to unhook yourself. In any match where the jump off the hook really happens it will be a very bad experience for the killer.
Imagine like this: in every match, after every 20s of chase, there is a 5% chance that the survivor will be exposed for 60s. This hypothetical effect would only play itself in a couple of matches, but in the matches that takes effect, would be one of the worst experience for survivors. What i want to mean is: adding something random with a strong effect destroys the balance of the game.
The smartest decision would be just to remove unhook attempts and skill cheks on the struggle phase. Otherwise it would just be a annoying survivor buff concealed as "health update"
-1 -
I play both side I know survivor is easier then killer but comparing getting off the hook sometimes to survivor being exposed for 60s sometime a little extreme of a comparison .
like I don't care if they got rid of self unhooking but what I heard of they want to do is also extreme
what I heard people who going next on hook will get a ban a lose a whole grade if true it will kill this game because I'm sure more then half the playerbase has does it.
0 -
Its a extreme comparison just to show how bad random events deciding the outcome of the match is. You could put 10s of exposed, 30% of gen regression, anything like that. A single jump off the hook for free would spoil a match, turning the tides of the game for pure luck. And i don't think random things outside of events are good for the game.
I don't want people to be punished but if this helps getting better matches - and a healthy game overall -, i understand it. And the game will not die for this as we had worse times and DBD stood. We need to account that are many people that get discouraged to play DBD after their teammate/adversary just give up on the hook for free. As i've said, at first we will have some people "quitting" the game - i bet they will return soon - but with a better enviroment we will have much more people playing.
-1 -
Can someone give this person award? Because that is EXACTLY what I been saying like forever. Spot on well said 👏. Also though swf was affected too cause I lost all my 30+ friends who quit dbd fully.
There was like little to no DC before 6.1 and up came and survivors didn't even care about dying and would.even good off. Now killers wonder why we rather gen rush as they love to say.
-3 -
or to many people will quit wait time will take forever but at least you'll have the small pool of people who never go next on hook.
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