http://dbd.game/killswitch
Do we realy need to nerf the ghoul? (Yes we need changes, not skullmerchanting)
Its just my first impression, but ghoul needs more time for players to learn his weakneses.
I think he is pretty fine. I ve got destroyed by squad, that dosent hold W every time i break a pallet.(Just hold me in loops as long as possible like basic killer) SO i lose 5 gens on 4 hooks. They used every opertunity to run away when i get into cooldown.
This guy has 40M terror radius, like blight wesker and billy. His is lethal like them or even more. Kaneki suffer in loops, but can punish hold W. So i dont think that nerfing his ability in any way just solve his power. Its turn into trash. Remove cancels? He loses anti loop potential, and cant down anybody. So we get Legion 2.0 literally but weaker/
Remove basekit old apron? Well he would feels like the trash with his mobility.
And he feels like blight in most situations, I wrote above why…
Just give people a bit more time… to learn how 2 play as and against.
Whats your thoughts about kaneki? Do we realy need to scare devs to nerf him as quick as possible?
(My personal opinion is that not every killer should be killed with nerfs after the first week. Give him a try plz ok?)
- I created a separate post where I expressed my thoughts how to nerf him or change waiting you there for solutions what to do with his slide cancels. (Post title "My solution how to nerf/change the Ghoul! (Simple but perfect)")
3d day after release:
i will make video and put it here, what after 4 days is happend and what possible can do. While im creating it, i want to say that his main problem is his slide after leap, its just too much. it isnt that he can injure you freely, instead down faster then every other killer could. i will try to show you both before and now.
4th day: here it is
Bear accent is in action so be patient, i did make a subtitles because i dont use english very often. I like to type read or hear it, i understand it, but… i didnt played so much with english community. (Though i did make episodes on YT, so u can watch where you want right after you open it.)
How it happend that the Ghoul, become OP after PTB update. (Old apron basekit what a bread!)
- My suggestion is that his slide must be lowed, his ghoul attack wont injure you if its not perfect, distance how far grab attack could be done is lowed/
- Then, allowing surviviors to walk when they are grabbed to break the leap like as cenobite's chains its good idea, and on Top of it make his cooldown longer when he stunned by the pallet after 1st leap!
- Map wide sound when Ghoul gets engraged.
- He cant use his power on you during one minute, so he wont be able to tag Kagune Mark and get rid of your endurance after unhook. (With slide cancel change, this make him harder to tunnel someone. Though DS,DH,UNBRKBL still exist)
More nerfs? I want to read it! As i said, "Critisize, Nerf! Offer!" to make him fun for both sides!
If they skullmerchant him, this will be our biggest dissapoint. First Anime License and that could ruin all dbd expirience. I think he is fine, but his slides is that should not be like this.
Never guess which side im on…
Im off, i did what i want, so there's no more updates.
Love the Ghoul as much as i hate him. (But where is all our Tokyo Ghoul fans? Want your opinions, is Kaneki One eyed King of dbd for this moment?)
Comments
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I don't know, but we aren't going to know on day one, that's for sure
17 -
I just want them to make him be quiet, don't wanna hear AUGH OEUgh glorp glorp every 5 seconds >.<
40 -
I feel like people are overblowing his strength, since he is new and the tactics against him haven't been learnt yet.
Just to remind, the same happened with the Unknown.
15 -
truly agreed just saw a bit posts like Kaneki is an S tier, i cant loop Kaneki what am i need to do smth like that. And first guy who saw this post dislike it. Sad. Didnt read i think/ If anyone wants to share their outrage, it should be well reasoned . Not just put they rage on the new killer that they cant conter them.
-4 -
Hold him in loops as long as possible, majority of players cant do that. So he just shread through all spawn and start hooking one by one.
4 -
Id just like to not get hit through walls. Thats it.
32 -
XD He is even quiter now than ptb was released. i just agree that a bit loudy he is)
0 -
true, but i didnt noticed any changes to the unknown, but to kaneki they will do probably.
-1 -
MB he need a bit of a short distance that he could injure, im talking about trigger that causes him to hit or let go a survivior/
Its quite long i think. But sometimes kaneki just let surv free instead of injuring them. If i collide with a wall in that moment and survivior have distance.-6 -
This is intended because of concessions that had to be made due to the power not dealing damage instantly.
Let me explain:The nature of his power necessitates the hit going through if you're around a corner or behind a gen because it has a travel time. It's like how Huntress hits you right before you round a corner, that's still a legitimate hit, it just doesn't have a delay. Because Kaneki's power has a delay, it LOOKS weird, but it needs to be this way because there are only two alternatives:
- He just lets you go after he *already lands the hit* on you because it "doesn't look correct"
- He vacuums you back around the corner to "make the hit look better" and make you lose more distance in the process.
In the first scenario, it feels terrible to play, and in the second scenario, it feels *even worse* to play against than the average player currently perceives it to be.
The hit is perfectly fine as-is in my opinion. There were concessions that had to be made in terms of "feel" because Kaneki doesn't damage you immediately (again, like with my Huntress example.) He hits you around the corner because he locked onto you BEFORE you rounded the corner.
It is 100% working as intended.
However, I would certainly be down with reducing the duration of his enrage animation while also reducing the amount of time that the survivor is stationary so it's fair for both sides (since I don't personally feel like he's overpowered - he's the only dash killer where his dash doesn't have the ability to down survivors, so it's actually fair for it to work the way it does. Even Pig's dash can down people.)
This solution would resolve the janky/stuttery feeling while being power-neutral.
Post edited by Leon_Loves_Cheryl on-6 -
Great explanation! I couldn't have done better, yes I wanted to give Huntress and Wesker from PTB as an example. But you did better than me. Yeah it's because Surv's hitbox is literally behind them, which is why killers can punch through pallets and windows and why hatchets can hit at weird angles and behind walls.
Green is hitboxes. Just found it in the Ethernet dont be mad.
-1 -
Hopefully Ghoul won't get nerfed.
-6 -
Do I think he needs a nerf? I'm not sure if it's bugs or feature in some cases at this point.
But it certainly feels like the skill floor is off here on both sides. Everyone is brand new to this killer, the killer and survivor players are all seeing this for the first time.
So if this killer has a playable skill floor that's low, meaning that a player brand new can pick them up and be effective almost immediately, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
But if the skill floor to oppose that is vastly higher, that can be a problem. Survivors complaining about getting hit around corners and through walls sounds like a bug tbh, and that should be fixed.
But bugs aside, if the skill floors are drastically off for either side, something should probably change.
We had the opposite problem for singularity: too hard on ptb for killers to pick up and have a handle on the kit, and too easy for survivors to counter. And they balanced it by nerfing emp's and making the killer a bit easier to play.
It sounds like we're in a similar position, but reversed: easy to play, yet some of the counter play is bugged, or possibly overturned if truly working as intended.
19 -
Never know, now mb yes, after one week i dont think so/ We forget who is majority of players.
-7 -
Or just didnt figured out yet. (And wont until his leap slide wont be reduced.)
Post edited by LordHeXaGoN on-9 -
About the hitting behind the wall see the comments above, man and I clearly explained why this happens. (I dont think this is a bug, its just works like that with surviviors hitboxes and ping. And change it like Wesker (when he couldnt hit anywone just because his ability hitbox was too short) on release will be a stupid idea i thought about.Post edited by LordHeXaGoN on-7 -
How it is right now is not aceptable in my honest opinion. It feels worse than Legion.
Why does the first feel horrible to play? If the survivor got behind cover, then they should not get hit. Simple as that. It makes the Ghoul harder to play, but keeping in mind, that injuring people is literally FREE right now, I dont think thats a bad idea at all.
Also, Its not around a corner. Its straight up through walls, platforms and, from what ive heard, even different levels of elevation. If im behind a wall at a jungle gym, I SHOULD NOT GET HIT THROUGH A WALL. Huntress cannot hit you through a wall. She hits you around coorners because of ping and hitbox. I know that.
If thats working as intended, then why do I have to still play around walls as slinger? just make me hit through walls now. Free deep wound every time. Because hes slow, the second hit is justified to be a "bit" harder to get right? Slinger is slow but can injure for free and Kaneki is fast and can injure for free. You see how this sounds?
His dash downing survivors would make him rival Twins on ptb. You can catch up on people in an instant and traverse the map as fast a blight. That in itself is a power some killers could only dream of. Pig has to crouch down and then charge her ambush. Shes also 115 and hhas no mobility at all. This comparison makes no sense at all.
What I would like to see:
- Hits should not go through walls or ceilings. That is straight up wrong and feels incredibly cheap-
- Cooldown after using a leap to catch up should be increased to allow a survivor to make it LITERALLY ANYWHERE.
Everything else is absolutely fine imo. Strong but fine.
13 -
I literally just explained why the power needs to hit through obstacles in some situations in order for the killer's power to actually function. It's just how the game works. It only looks weird because he latches on to you and deals damage to you after a delay (between the period of locking on to you and landing next to you.) They can't make it "look better" without unbalancing the killer.
This is how the game works.
Like I said earlier, they could make his enrage animation shorter (so he can act faster) and reduce the amount of time that the survivor is stunned to promote a smoother experience on both sides, but you CANNOT prevent his power from hitting you when he's already locked on to you. He already caught you before you lost sight of him, you cannot break his power in that situation because it'll feel terrible
-10 -
And I said that they should consider doing that because the experience of playing against it is currently horrible.
What am I supposed to do to avoid getting injured? I can stun a legion. I can block a plagues vomit with pathing and environment. On top of this, these two killers have to chase you down with m1 as a trade of for the free injure.
Im sorry, but how can you defend this?
17 -
He is already balanced around having a strong, guaranteed injure. The tradeoff is that he cannot down with the power directly. He is unique in the way that he can use his power to facilitate his ability to down people with basic attacks, but only in niche angles in some loops. It's primarily a mobility power. You aren't supposed to avoid being injured against this killer, you're supposed to avoid going down by looping him naturally.
You're angry and upset that you don't have two health states but you have no sight of how much the character has to pay for that compared to Dracula, Nurse, Blight, etc. Even Pig can down with her dash ability. I can defend this because I comprehend the game's mechanics at a high level. Kaneki DOES have to chase you down with an M1 as a "trade of" for the free injure. Your own reasoning applies to this character yet you don't realize it.
-6 -
If they do that as i said we will get literally legion 2.0. Do you want legion 2.0 I dont . And im a legion main just for record.
You want his ability after injury to be completely useless am I understanding correctly?
- Cooldown after using a leap to catch up should be increased to allow a survivor to make it LITERALLY ANYWHERE.
-5 -
Im sorry, but how can you defend this?
Currently "bias" appears to be how people are defending this.
If killers could be blinded through walls, obstacles, and ceilings, people would be burning the forums down to get the obvious bug fixed.
No one with an ounce of integrity would say that's a skill issue, or even that it's clearly intended. But the "non functional, broken thing" benefits them in this case, so it gets blindly defended.
13 -
Absolutely. The literally zero cooldown after using power for distance is actually laughable.
15 -
When did I say that I was upset about getting injured for free?
He can catch up faster than you can get to any tile. That makes him not have a trade of. You say that you understand dbd, but you seem to only understand it from one perspective.
14 -
Catching up is already very strong (see dracula). Getting a free injured state is also very strong. I think you should be able to make it to a tile as a survivor. Sorry, but I think survivors should have any form of agency in chase.
6 -
sigh…
2 -
Fyi, flashbang blind even when facing wall took almost a year for them to fix it LOL
2 -
I like him very much on both sides, but there is one thing that bothers me a little: His first hit is always free. If they will ever nerf him, I would want them to make the injury more of a skill shot while allowing him to down with his power.
4 -
Im not blind im just trying to figure out why do people hate him. He just released. And need more time. Not just one day.
I thought it would be like this after ptb i make the post there describe my concerns, most people dislike my opinion that he dosent fits like this, but they didnt listen, said i dont undrstand ect ect. I knew it was going to be like with legion or even worse. /
He works as intended and mb we get some tweaks after a week or two.
So lets make the post, DISABLE THE GHOUL, cuz he is non functional, broken thing? (fix him faster plz?) *sarcasm*
- But the "non functional, broken thing" benefits them in this case, so it gets blindly defended.
-7 -
I think he is a bit overtuned and need changes.
First of is his grab attack. It is a free injure and deep wound when you mark on the survivor, unlike Wesker's power which is a dash or Legion who has to get close to you to injure. Sometimes you hide behind the wall and still get injured, and that is unfair af. Also he can grab you on the other side of the pallet, like what?. So Change his grab into a dash instead of the auto target.
Second, his fatigue (time to be able to basic attack when cancel the skill) is too short. With blight and nurse, survivors have a bit of window to run away as they are fatigued, but for Goul it is near zero if he dash to a wall next to a survivor instead of into the survivor, allowing him to basic attack them instantly. So makes him fatigue when he use all charges or cancels his power.
Third, his movement power is insane with little punishment. Blight and Wesker is punished if they mess up the skill with the fatigue, and is wesker messed up his dash he just goes to Antartica. Also his power to traverse map is problematic with the tunnelling, since the moment you unhook he comes right to you. So he need some sort downside with his power.
So give him a fatigue and makes his grab a dash instead of auto-grab and he will be fair to play against, for now.
Post edited by Kamisa on1 -
Dracula is hard to play on the high level against good players and even decent, u have to combine all forms to get value and this is hardest part. He isnt even close to kaneki in mobility. And need a lot of practice to play. You miss hellfire u slowdowned so much that any survivior can chain into any loop on a map. Wolf form like demo, isnt very hard to dodje dash. Bat form, isnt very usefull in chase cuz surviviors will camp the pallet or window if youre turn into bat. (A lot of oprions for em.) So i dont see where dracula catching up is strong?
-2 -
Ok…
Dracula had an issue on release, where the bat form was able to catch up in seconds, making survivors not reach tiles in many cases. This made him extremely oppressive as it negated survivor agency. You got hit and just went down. Nothing you could do. Kaneki often has the same issue.
I wish I could camp a pallet when these killer ctach up, because VERY often I cant even reach one.
Dracula, let alone any other killer being difficult to play is not part of the discussion at all.
5 -
The issue with this logic is that he was live on the ptb for 2 weeks, followed by a 3 week brainstorming period for both sides. In almost every account, he was buffed from PTB to live. Survivor players have had that long to find counters, and honestly, there isn't much, if anything at all... especially when this killer gets to dance around in the forever buggy physics engine of this antiquated game.
People hate loading into the DLC day 1, and going up against a killer player who is already using 10 movement "techs" to get easy downs. The first 5 ghoul players I faced yesterday were already doing the shack and slide cancel "techs," all within the first 2 hours of the DLC going live.
This killer also suffers from the nurse/blight strawman. Lower MMR players can spin new nurse players, and all of a sudden nurse "isn't a problem and is completely counterable." But everyone knows that if you're going up against a nurse player who knows what they are doing, they are leaving that match with at least a 3k, 4k if they care to slug for the 4th. Low MMR players are going to make this killer look like pig with no perks, but good ghoul players make this killer on par with killers that simply have little to no counterplay like blight or spirit.
6 -
Which is not excusable as well. We complained about that for a long time. Sound occlusion seems to be an issue they just cant get a hang on apparently.
2 -
Of course we do. If survivors can't immediately figure out how to out play a newly released killer within the first hour then it's clearly the killer that is the problem. It's why people shouldn't buy new killers on release, because this happens all the time.
-7 -
Yes, he needs nerfed and will be mark my words.
1 -
Dude used mft i ve got outplayed while chased him/ just a rehular match where i think i win but this guy makes me feel like my power does nothing. He reaches every loop he want. (5 hooks 1 kill 5 gens done) Ghoul is an S tier, just for sure. Played on dead sands. Good example of player that knows that they are doing!
-4 -
atp rn he takes no work and I hope he gets nerfed straight up easy mode, carried killer
1 -
It happens every killer release.
Give it time, we'll all find out how to best approach this killer, what needs adjusting, and what needs buffs/nerfs. The only thing I see as an issue is how easy it is to use his power to damage, just needs a reduction in width for the hitbox is all.1 -
I just can't see him being a really good killer. More like mid tier. He's quite simplistic.
-16 -
I agree with this, he is objectively worse than Wesker who is himself B tier.
-14 -
Well, he's the clunkiest killer I've ever played so.... hahaha
-3 -
Survivors just need to adapt and give it more than a single day to learn counterplay, damn.
-11 -
With the usual ping problems, an autoaim followed by a long animation will always give the impression that the hits are unfair. This killer is actually a bug mess.
0 -
Thats the secret, the Rize skin doesn't do that, so half the reason to buy her is so that she doesn't make those noises in the lobby, and she's a lot quieter.
4 -
yep, this. Also, I would love to see everyone who is screaming for immediate nerfs try to play the killer themselves. I have a feeling most of them would struggle to get a single kill.
-10 -
Keep him overtuned like weave attunement was allowed to provide sitewide maphacks for 6 months (Which I used to great affect with franklin's until the nerf, I might add.)
-5 -
I got a 3K on my first match with him, with a controller, and never having access to the PTB to practice beforehand. And I wasn't even doing the tricks that make him really good like the M1 slingshot.
5 -
No he most definitely needs a nerf. I've never seen a ghoul outside of Enraged state beyond the start and very end of the game. That third leap is really game changing and having that for 90% of the game is incredibly good. Not to mention he gets, free first injure WITH deep wound, pre nerf chucky scamper, insane map mobility/pressure, insane addons and some decent tech to put the cherry on top. Like someone else has said in another post. This is as close as we get to nurse in another killer matched only by PTB rework twins.
Any good Ghoul player would show you why hes really good.9 -
MOVED TO NEW POST
Post edited by Nightraver on0
