http://dbd.game/killswitch
The Ghoul is Impossible to Get Away From and Feels Very Bad to Verse: Nerfs Needed
On its own, and on paper, The Ghoul's power is fine and fun to control.
(Even though this is the third back-to-back double dash Killer in a row this year that's been released and the powers are getting a little repetitive, but I digress and that's neither here nor there)
However, in practice, The Ghoul is very annoying and unfun to play against, as well as a balancing nightmare: The Ghoul can close almost any gap instantly and immediately follow up with an M1 attack. And there is just nothing Survivors can do about it.
This instant distance and follow up makes it impossible for the Survivors to reach anywhere after a pallet is broken, and it feels incredibly bad, on top of several other features.
I think The Ghoul needs some heavy nerfs and alterations to feel both balanced and good to go against, and any of these in combination (but none in isolation) would make him feel much better to play against:
- Remove the autoaim. I know you guys are proud of this feature and are confident that this makes the Killer feel better, but obviously autoaim will make any Killer feel better to play as (and like total crud to play against). Automatically being given free hits feels good! But that's not what should be happening. It feels wretched to go against as Survivor. A killer this strong, powerful, and more importantly free should not have autoaim, he should have to aim and work for his shots and damage.
- Remove the Survivor Stun on Grab Attacks, or at least make it an instant rather than half a second of paused movement. Getting stopped in your tracks by an auto-aim power feels BAD. Incredibly bad. Full-stop, please don't ever take control of player movement away from the player in a game, please. But in addition to making him feel better to verse, this would also give Survivors a chance to get some more distance before Ghoul comes barreling down the aisle with another Kagune leap.
- Increase both the duration and strength of the animation and slowdown for Cancelling Kagune Leap power. It is almost impossible for Survivors to react to the speed with which The Ghoul can cut them off around almost any corner.
- Make it impossible to cancel Kagune Leap while The Ghoul is mid-leap. This will give Survivors more opportunity to react to Kaneki and reposition after being cut off: A huge thanks to The Ghoul's lethality is his ability to immediately follow up with an M1 from a leap thanks to being able to cancel mid-leap. While it makes him feel even sleeker to play as, for balancing sake I don't think he should be able to do this and I don't think it will detract from his overall smoothness and well-roundedness to play as..
- Consider slowing the Leap speed. The real dangerous nature of this Killer is their ability to pinpoint precisely where they want to be, point, click, and he's instantly there. Survivors should have some opportunity to observe what is happening and change course.
- Consider slowing the base speed of this Killer. Especially if nothing else is nerfed, Kaneki can cover more distance than Nurse can in nearly an instant, and then instantly follow up with an M1. If it wasn't for the fact that the M2 can't down Survivors, I would even suggest that he be slower than Survivors just like Nurse, but that is not the case. Either way, with a speed power this intense, I think it's fair to make him significantly slower.
I think the cooldown of the Kagune Leap itself is fine, actually: The problem is this is not a power that can be balanced by just making it incredibly undodgeably powerful, but it's forced-balanced because players just can't use it for a long time. Increasing the cooldown would not change the lethal nature of the power. The problem is that it's nearly uncounterable when it is used in the right hands in the right place, and Survivors need to be given more opportunity to react.
Comments
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I cant argree with 3-d, 4-th and 6-th, points.
3-d: There is another solution rather than his slowdown, just increase recovery time.2,5 sec like with legion instead of 2 sec, this will make a huge difference, like you grabbed the survivior with first leap, but you still can slide, so slowdown will work like it was on ptb. 0,5 sec you can slide while cancel, when 2 seconds of slowdown as intended. (Just try to use new Apron,he has slowdown, but it isnt work due to slide)
4-th: This will make him clunky to use and he will just leap, slide, and cancel no accuracy or prediction you know?
6-th: Billy are 4.6 oneshot killer 40m terror radius with map mobility with no cooldown; Blight are 4.6 40m terror radius with insane map mobility with short cooldown, there is more simmilar things with Ghoul. Does it seem that he must be 4.4? Chuky is short, Spirit can be invisible, Nurce are not that map independed or map traversal as Kaneki, she is pretty slow compare to others, but she ignores basics…
40 m Terror means this guy is DEADLY, you should stay away, hide, or at least dont make mistakes in chase, gen repearing, while running on the map, saving, or things that you doing usual as a survivior. (If you are not fear him that means, you are possible sacraficed; if you are saving your teammate while Ghoul arent either in chase or in cooldown and you are heal next to the hook, this will be the tunnel issue, if you dont use DS; if you let him 3 gen, this will be either for a long time, or for a short…)
This is what i noticed when played AS and AGAINST, more against.
This wont be like with Legion or anyone else who has simmilar power as Legion that cant help in chase:"O yeah i can take your hit and stun you, then looping like 4.6 with no power"
You know who has the best map mobility? Char that could be on one side of a map, and then just appear on another in literally 1 sec? Nightmare? Wrong! This isHag/ Then tell me that kaneki should be 4.4 🤣
By this Speech i dont say he dosent deserved nerfs, i say that he deserved Tweaks, that should make him fair.-5 -
I very much agree, but I think his power may need a cooldown increase just to make more of a gap for Survivors and killer alike so there's more Breathing room for Survivors and more strategy and skill for the Killer to use than just using the power over and over again
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I think making massive, sweeping changes to his kit would cause more problems or lead to breaking what is fun about him when playing as him.
However, that said, I 100% agree with points 1 and 2. The auto-aim for kagune attacks are FAR too forgiving, as is the range at which you can make the kagune attacks. For point 1, I would suggest reducing the range at which the Ghoul can attack with the kagune, while keeping the range they can use the power for mobility.
For point 2, I am 100% on board. The stun the survivor receives after a kagune attack is unacceptable and leads to wasted exhaustion perks, guaranteed follow up hits, and a complete feeling of powerlessness on the survivor's part. If nothing else gets altered, this point, this one right here needs to be removed from the game immediately.
This is original MFT, original DS, or even pre-nerf, FTP+BU levels of unblanced, unfair, and unfun.2 -
Space this calling space/ Space for surviviors to make a move. He dont give it, due to his fast recovery. Cooldown by itself is fine/
If cooldown will be more than 10 sec, his power will be awful, Wesker has 12 sec cooldown, but he CAN use his first dash after 6 sec cooldown (Sry if im wrong but it is).0 -
Unironically asking to slow down the base speed of an M1 killer is insane. He can't down you with his power, he can only outmaneuver you with it.
You shouldn't touch his cancel fatigue either. You can lower his movespeed during the duration, but do not increase the duration of his cancel fatigue. This disincentivizes using the power in interesting ways during a loop itself to try to cut off your path, and pushes him towards only using it for map mobility. The ENTIRE killer is in the fatigue duration. It should not be increased.
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Did you read my comment? Dude think that 4.4 for 40m terror of Deadliest killer wouldnt make him CLUNKY.
Billy n Blight still exist though.0 -
Gutting his cancel would completely destroy his skill ceilling and make him useless in any loop. the fun part of his kit is trying to body Block mid loop or land ontop/slide in the survivor, this is only possible because his cancel cooldown being this short... i honestly rather they nerf the distance from his leaps or maybe make the cancel after just his first leap longer
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Nah having the best mobility in game plus the easiest first hit is just not going to fly with also having consistent strong anti-loop. His mobility and power recharge would need a hard nerf.
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Did you not Just read that i said his leap probably needs a shorter range... i dont think completely gutting a killers skill ceilling is a good balance move. i dont even understand why People are still bringing up the first hit. i dont think ive seen a single person defend the way it works now and its obvious it needs nerfs i wouldnt be against nerfing the power cooldown, just dont touch his cancel
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Do not touch his cancel fatigue. It's extremely important that it remains the way it is for the killer to be fun for both sides. They can adjust his hitboxes and visual clarity, but nerfing the cancel is a terrible idea
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The Japanese account said that the devs will nerf/tweak the Ghoul in the next patch (8.6.2) and even though these might be little changes, they will keep an eye on him and listen to the community feedback for further changes.
https://x.com/DbDBHVR_JP/status/1909983614412206243
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Do not touch ghoul. He is fine the way he is, just learn to play a new strategy
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We are looking at adjustments to The Ghoul, HF1 is too soon to get any proper changes in as we do like to give things a little bit of time on the Live game for players to adapt.
Our Designers already have a few tweaks that can be made for the next hotfix to have the character more in-line of what we expect, more details on those will be with the patch notes on its release.
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Definitely agree with reducing or removing the autoaim, and the cancel cooldown should be nerfed. Power vault speed could also be adjusted and a few addons need changes (Umbrella, Yamori's Mask, possibly the window-block addon as well).
I don't agree with reducing the leap speed or base movement speed this soon though, that seems overkill after only a week when other less drastic changes can be tried first.
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thank you for the news Mandy, very glad to know there’s changes planned to make because it felt like our feedback wasn’t being heard.
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Thank you for the transparency! Are you able to share anything on when the patch might release?
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my guess is sometime next week. Possibly next Wednesday since they usually release their bugfix patches a week apart
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The first one is the only good suggestion and would already massively weaken him.
Lowering his base speed would make him very weak and frustrating to play. His power isn’t reliable or strong enough to get downs on its own. After all he’s still an m1 killer after the injury that can’t down you with his power.
All the other changes aren’t good and would only remove the fun parts of him (being able to travers the map fast and catch up quickly).
All nerfs should be aimed at making him more skillful rather than nerfing him. One suggestion from one of my friends was to increase his sliding more, so if he messes up he will slide past the survivor and has to catch up again like with Wesker.
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You guys will do anything but nerf the problematic things will you ! Kaneki has settled in he’s all we have went against please for the love of god kill switch him or something the hotfix needed to be out yesterday playing in a 4 man swf rushing gens with sb and mft shouldn’t be the counter to a killer this is ridiculous
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Thank you for listining to the community and to keep an eye on him!
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So this means, the team during the all time while u were developing The Ghoul u didnt make him "more in-line of what we expect" How u can you say the killer was released literally last week "isnt in-line as expected". You were literally developing it a few days ago and now you say its not in-line? Do u release them misaligned on purpose? Its a unfair estrategy to monetize. Every character has the same treatment. We are in a healthy content moment right ? Would be nice u testing more before release Chucky sent hugs.
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Please leave his cooldowns and cancels alone
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cooldown? he doesnt have
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This is ridiculous. Do not nerf him chucky, SM, Freddy, pig... everytime a killer is released Survivors whine and get them nuked to f tier if you have to usa a strategy besides hold W
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The Ghoul is currently too strong, and most people agree. Blame the developers for over-nerfing killers, not the players. @Callahan9116
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I'm a killer main, hell I was a Skull Merchant main, and even I think he needs nerfing. There is zero skill involved in his first hit. The stun-on-grab neuters a survivor's ability to counterplay and removes agency of both players. He absolutely requires changes.
You may not like to hear this, but this isn't a "survivors whining" issue. This is a game health issue that needs to be addressed post haste.-1 -
It's probably been mentioned here already, but if it hasn't, the biggest problem is the jank. His auto-aim attack goes through many objects and walls and, while I haven't played him myself so you can correct me if I'm wrong, as Survivor it feels like he can turn almost full corners with the autoaim as well. I doubt they'll want to remove the auto aim so I just suggest making it fair.
If you're behind cover, (in fact, even just partially) you shouldn't get locked onto and/or injured, obviously.
The autoaim needs to be more precise and should require some setup, maybe needing to get a specific angle on a survivor to actually lock onto them where a survivor can think "oh he's locking onto me I need to do X," instead of "yeah might as well just stand still till he hits me" it's hard to explain as I don't know how exactly it should work but I hope you get the gist that survivors need to feel they have some counterplay. At the very least like I said above if part of your body is obscured by an object or wall (other than grass) he shouldn't be able to lock on
Also mentioned in the post is the survivor stun which is right, it feels unbelievably janky and just pisses me off everytime I get stuck in place cause there's no reason for it, just make it be like every other killer where you instantly get the speed boost3 -
To the devs, proceed with caution.
Don't overnerf him, don't make this yet another killer that lost their identity because of complaints (like Freddy, Skull Merchant and Chucky)
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There doesn't necessarily need to be skill involved in getting the first hit. The skill requirement of the killer is in downing you, because his power can't do it. It's a similar concept to Legion. Legion has a very easy first hit, but the tradeoff is that he has to M1 you. Same with Kaneki, except what makes Kaneki interesting to play as and against is his ability to use his mobility to curve and swing to catch survivors off guard during their path.
Kaneki and Legion have meaningful tradeoffs for an easy first hit. It's core to their design, and complaining about it belies your misunderstanding of the way killers are balanced and designed.
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Asking for a killswitch is beyond dramatic respectfully. I have beaten him several times..They just need to adjust his hitbox and done. Theres nothing wrong with having other S tier killers other than Nurse and Blight…
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Thank you so much, Its really rough out there.
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I destroy him at T and L walls. Its his biggest weakness. Shacks pretty easy to wreck him at too honestly. The first option is the best. I dont mind the first hit tbh. Resilience kicks into gear with my made for this. However his hitbox needs to be fixed.
Post edited by MechWarrior3 on0 -
Agreed. I feel like a lot of the feedback is marred and warped by the average player's frustration over the way his pounce functions on a technical level. It's especially frustrating playing as him and trying not to pounce onto the person you're chasing.
The killer is pretty well balanced, it's just the pounce hitbox that needs fixing for both sides. He's not hard to beat, he's just really good, which is the way all killers should be ideally, so I'm glad that they're going light on their initial changes.
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Thank you, Mandy! I'm glad to hear that you guys plan to make some adjustments to him, as he is extremely unfun to play against. I love DBD and want to enjoy the game during the event, but I've had to stop playing because of this killer. I hope these changes will be implemented soon. Have a great day or night!
Post edited by IronKnight55 on-2 -
15.04 is next ptb btw
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u the goat
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Thank you for your response!
As always, I want to say we do so so love and appreciate the Community Managers who work tirelessly to gather our feedback and keep this community a safe place for discussion, and value the devs and everyone that works on bringing us amazing content and keeping this game an enjoyable place for everyone to have fun within this game that we are all passionate about <3
Thank you for all the work that all of you all put in. ~
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I do like that "slide past" idea, in theory!
I threw out a lot of suggestions here because I wanted to throw things at the wall to say what I would consider making him feel better to verse, and gather some opinions and have a discussion on how the community feels about these options, but not necessarily saying all of these changes should be made at once (or at all).
I fully recognize that any of these changes (especially if all combined) could, of course, make him feel worse to play as, and considering that he's still an M1 killer to get the down at the end of the day, I wouldn't want changes that make him feel just as miserable to play as, as he was once to play against.
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Did HF1 removed ghoul's aoutoaim? Or it was reduced? Just i noticed that when playing after 1 day and trying to leap as usual, and he didnt sticks to objects/ And was a bit wierd when kagune leap just start breaking from litlle objects.
Shadow nerf? (last one it feels like with Wesker, when you use dash and its stops when hit a litlle object on the floor)Noticed that he now stops after vaulting as intended? When leap survivior after vault, if while they vault it isnt apply.
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