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Dose the pig need a buff or is the pig to op
I’m a pig and ghost face main and I was wondering if you think that the pig is to strong or is to week
Best Answer
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Pig is alright.
Her only big weakness is the early game.
If people pre drop and shift w, you will get your traps out way too late, resulting in you not being able to play much around them.
She still needs a bit of help with her chase but is overall in a great spot. I would not touch her much. Especially not the traps.
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Answers
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Why does it have to be too strong or too weak? Cant a Killer be alright?
IMO Pig is pretty close to being "alright". I always wish she would get more love to her Stealth and Dash and her Traps would not get so much focus (some people seem to think that her Traps are her only Power). But I would not say that Pig is the Killer which needs changes the most currently.
She is solid and probably near the Top of all M1-Killers.
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I wouldnt say buff or nerf but tweeks n changes. Like oni she requires finding people very quickly at the start of the round to make use of her power, and if avoided for the start, can make her first trap not as threatening, she can be looped for days even with her dash ability, yet if she has a survivor with an active trap in her sights she can just follow them and ensure they die
so most of thr balance changes they ever make involve her dash or her traps. I think she deserves to be stronger in chase, like shes the only stealth killer without an expose mechanic. but the penalties for following a survivor with an active trap should be more severe than just halting the timer, like the longer she follows them the more the timer counts backwards or something giving them more time so that its no longer a viable method for free kills.
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The only thing I still think she ‘needs’ is for the roar to start after the ambush fully charges, not during.
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Needs to see her boxes again, it was a massive nerf to her power and fun. She used to be a macro killer before, but now she's just a bad stealth killer with a bad anti loop and a passive gen slow down that's put and forget.
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She needs buff badly to her dash she needs her two dash add-ons basekit for it to be any good
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she needs buffs
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She's fairly weak once players know how to manage their time in matches, but she likely commands enough power in new player lobbies that buffing her gets complicated quickly.
Still, if the devs find a good way to buff her, I'd like to see it. Maybe something for Ambushing?
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Funnily enough this is how it was during release, and it was changed shortly after (I wanna say when Endgame Collapse released? but I also feel like it was earlier, not sure)
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I think the only change is to remove the notification of people getting traps off and allow the pig to gain extra traps. Otherwise I feel she’s good.
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You can memorize survivor movement and box spawns. I still play her macro to the max and its a lot of fun. I get head pops every third or fourth game.
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While you "technically" can for every single map and variant, it's impractical. Especially given how the spawns can alternate. All this adds is unnecessary tediousness to the killer. While I understand that people don't like box pressuring, that is what makes her unique, fun and viable.
This is like saying I could memorize all onryo tv spawns. Could you, technically? Yeah. Is it extremely tedious and impractical? Also yeah.
I used to love playing Pig, but box aura removal ruined the killer for me.
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Agree with everything you said. I stopped playing her after the removal of the auras. Pig wasn’t the same after it anymore.
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She's alright for now…. it's more of players realizing that her RBT's have to be left alone and not chased until it is removed
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I love playing pig too if you have the right parks it can be really fun but the box’s are a shame a tip I can’t give you use hex face the darkness or leathel pursuer or other aura reading parks
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I see your point and I agree.
Personally, I have memorized all that, but you cannot expect that from the ordinary player that doesn't invest thousands of hours on one killer / two killers in my case.
I'm definitely in the minority there.
I understand the need for the change though. Her chase got buffed, so her traps needed some form of nerf. While this was definitely not the buff I would ha e suggested, it's one I can accept.
My idea would have been to nerf the annoying scream builds because they make playing around the traps too easy and more leathal.
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My issue with the buff to ambush/chase is that this isn't anything unique about her. If I wanted to play a chase killer I'd just play with one of the dozen other ones that already exist that do it way, way better. The ambush is a side feature of her, the core game play and identity of her is the traps and what makes her unique. I couldn't care less about her ambush, even if it was good, which I don't feel it is.
I would much rather, as you suggested, nerf the scream stuff that cheesed kills instead. The prevention feature they did to just box blocking was a good addition to this as well.
I understand you've memorized them but we know they want to balance around average players rather than multi-thousand hour ones.
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Yeah, this would help her with mindgame potential. I think Pig is in an alright factor of her own.
Like @radiantHero23 mentions, along with many other killers on the roster typically push you to have to play for thousands of hours to know the proper ins and outs for any killer -- Pig is no exception here.
Along with the addition of the screaming builds that Pigs would use to guarantee a kill due to not being able to get the trap off in time. She has her weaknesses, which can be glaring when compared to others and her ambush could be tweaked like the poster I've quoted. When a Pig is crouched and the roar starts, the survivor typically can predict the Pig as they charge up their ability. This can be devastating, which leads to a lot of 50/50 mindgames where the Pig either properly predicts the survivor and hits them or outright misses them completely — causing more issues as Pig suffers from chase more than other killers in her class type.
Edit: Obviously Pig is not OP, she just needs tweaks if anything.
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Nerf Pig
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Pig was massively nerfed so much, that the entire purpose of her traps was reworked.
Pig’s traps used to carry a heavy threat of lethality.
Survivors used to panic when Pig brought 6 boxes to a game, because it might take them 6 boxes to find a key. And if a survivor took 6 boxes to find a key, then the next survivor also might take 6 boxes to find a key. Survivors never knew how many boxes they would need to search, so there was always an urgency to try to search the boxes.All of that is gone now. Her traps have been downgraded from “highly dangerous traps, where the survivor doesn’t know if they will survive it”, to “un-interactive consistent slowdown”.
The problem is “consistent slowdown” is still an overall nerf, because on average the amount of slowdown is worse, on top of the fact that the trap kills happen way less often now.
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Its a careful balance, because the thing that makes Pig interesting is the combination of her Stealth, her Ambush and her RBTs all working together.
Her abilities create a unique set of mind games and macro control, and the strength of each is intrinsically linked. If any part of it becomes overturned, it directly bumps up the snowball power of the other aspects of her kit as well. As some simple examples:
- Stronger ambush means shorter chases, which in turn means getting head traps out faster and greater pressure on headtrap timers to increase RBT lethality.
- More lethal RBTs means survivors have stronger time constraints on all actions, which in turn means taking riskier paths/decisions that are at more risk of being caught out by Pigs stealth.
- Better movement during stealth means greater map presence and lower downtime, amplifying the pressure of RBTs and increasing chances of early hits and eventual downs with her ambush.
What makes Pig certainly my favourite killer is her ability to turn the game into an effective 3vs1 and increasing your ability to predict survivor movement, the need to dynamically adapt startegy based on identified pig box patterns, combined with the mind games surrounding her decent but not infallible ambush and her hard to see crouch/stand up m1 mind games.
If not careful, if any aspect of her kit becomes overtuned, that bleeds into every aspect of her kit, and kinda kills off what makes her interesting by making the skill of capitalising on RBT trap pressure simple and effortless. E.g. if she had a Chucky level ambush, then her slowdown of RBTs becomes obnoxiously oppressive by virtue of the pressure she can exert via the 3vs1 gameplay of her RBTs, so your need to actually track RBT progress and predict survivor movement isn't needed due to the passive strength your ambush would give you.
I'd personally like box auras to return, but hit the effectiveness of scream builds, since it is quite important for the survivor predicition element of her power, not having them means you have to learn the spawns, and is just an unnecessary accessibility issue for new Pig players. Me and @radiantHero23 and the rest of the Pig crew have different opinions on how to nerf Screams, but the 2 most commonly tossed up ideas were between:
- Don't allow head traps to pop while still searching a box.
- Interrupting a search box causes that box to regress instead of start from 0.
Both would resolve the issue by not making constant screams an instant death with nasty combos like Tampered Timer and Crate of Gears. As long as you're on the final search, you will often still make it...
However all things considered, the loss of box auras was a preferred sacrifice not to have that 30s timer increase.... so many people arguing in that PTB didn't understand how badly that 30s nukes any and all of her hard earned RBT pressure that it was honestly scary... 😵💫
In any case, any buffs and nerfs to the Pig must be very carefully thought out, because unlike other multi power killers, every single buff/nerfs knocks on every aspect of her kit... she does need some kind help in the early game... the first 60-120s of the trial heavily determines how the trial is gonna go... but buffing that specific aspect of her kit without going overboard elsewhere is quite tricky. 🐷
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Are you kidding? She's one of the weakest killers in the game. You'd have to use her pink add-ons and be on Lery's, so you can actually use her crouch, just to play her. Otherwise you're just leaving it up to chance. Oh, you have 4 head traps? Cool, but you're only gonna use 2 of them max before 5 gens are done, because you have no real power to get survivors.
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If you only manage to get 2 Downs while 5 Gens are done, you are playing the game wrong, lol.
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Nothing to add. Basicly everything said. 👉🐽
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just as every other M1 killer in the game atm, she struggles a lot mainly due to survivor meta atm. Any kind of buff is just pointless because it definitely won't fix the core "M1 killer" problem about her. The only thing i could think of with surv meta not changing is full-on rework.
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And I am saying: Her lack of a real power, against 4 good survivors, makes that outcome entirely possible. People still can't come to terms with the fact that some teams, you just can't do anything against, at least not with the killer you're playing as. There's no "Oh, if you just play skillfully enough, you can beat them," which is a false message a lot of content creators prop up. No, there's nothing. No amount of detaches, or mindgaming (because many tiles still have no mindgame), or banking on catching up to a survivor after a pallet break before they get to another and another. The top killers in the game can maybe deal with that. The other 95% of the cast can't. And it's not just comp or wannabe comp SWFs who can do this. If 1 survivor knows how to loop, killer could lose the whole game. They'll try to circumvent that outcome by going for the weak link or only chasing when it's a favorable chase. But sometimes there is no weak link. There is no favorable chase.
Given those circumstances, which are very much possible and common, I don't think my initial comment was an exaggeration. You're talking about Pig. Her head traps do nothing for chase, and then she has the dash attack. The dash attack, after all they've done with it, still needs 2 crouch/dash add-ons to be slightly* better than M1/Bloodlusting everything. Preemptively holding forward still trumps it. So if playing a killer who basically can't do anything in 95% of chase situations - getting almost no downs per gen done - is my fault, well then I guess it's my fault. Great logic.
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this is rare but I am not joking when I say if you go against the most cracked team in existence (tbf once in like 200 games) full of comp players on their map it is possible that you can get only 2 downs with 5 gens done IF youre playing a m1 killer. that's how efficient they are in chase and on gens; none of your tools which would usually work do anything against those players
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Yes. But this is no argument. 99,99% of games are NOT against such teams. And if you only get 2 Downs in those 99,99% of the games you play, you are just not good. (Let alone that with Pig after the first Down you should have someone who cannot do Gens for some time)
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yes I know im just saying… it was more of an example of how strong those teams are/ the disparity of strength
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I play both Ghostface and Pig, at a decent enough level to get decent Survivors too.
Both are pretty alright as is, the real issues come down to two different causes:
- Pig's time management. If she can't get her traps out she can't really pressure the map and that is a huge issue. This stems often from being an M1 Killer despite her dash. I'd like to see her maybe get some crouch speed or crouched movement speed add-ons or tweaks. Maybe something to make the boxes take longer.
- Ghostface's lack of any map mobility. Just give him Haste in Shroud like 2v8 (but obviously not 10%), change a few add-ons, and maybe give him more forgiveness about his Reveal especially around loops. If he's not on the screen of the Survivor or is fully behind line of sight blockers, he shouldn't be getting Revealed PERIOD.
Do these two really need any big buffs? No. But minor tweaks like what I suggested? Sure, it might improve them to play as a bit. I think both are in a relatively healthy place as is.
Edit: Downvoting me does not change the fact that Pig struggles with mobility and time management, Ghostface's biggest issue is mobility, and both are still fairly healthy anyway. You don't need to be A or S tier to be in a good spot.
Post edited by LockerLurk on-1 -
against good teams with 0 restrictions, Amanda would be lucky to get 3-4 stages. Going with the "but you usually don't face such teams" logic is kinda nuts since you should blame matchmaking for thst (tho in EU servers you really can see significantly more of those times than usual)
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No, it is the absolute right thing to say. Because people try to frame those outliers as the rule, which is just not true. The "against good Survivors"-"argument" is just so overdone. People pick that one game they lost very hard and claim that a Killer needs buffs, despite them winning the 9 other games this evening.
And yet we dont see Killers admit that a Killer might need Nerfs, if they dominate and get a 4K with 5 Gens up. Which is most of the time an outlier as well, but yet then it is suddenly their own skill which made that and not matchmaking or anything.
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I don't know what kind of survis you get, but the Pig needs an small chase buff.
The survis doesn't even let you ambush drop all the pallets before I reach the Loop.The Pig is a Tier D killer and indeed needs BUFF
How are you going to say that the Pig is "fine" then what about the 95% other killers?
That answer is completely wrong.Both Pig / Ghost Face / SkullMerchant needs BUFFS
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There's only so many changes you can make to an M1 killer. I won't say Pig is fine - maybe they could use some small buffs or QoL changes. I would suggest the roar happening closer to the end of the dash or even only after the dash begins but people heavily argued against that due to wanting to meme as Pig.
Personally I feel for what Pig's kit does they are fine but just because they are fine for their own kit I wouldn't say they are in a good spot as a whole in the grand scheme of things. Realistically what can you do for this killer?
I see a lot of post in this thread saying Pig should be buffed but outside of 1-2 post no one is elaborating as to how.
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you are looking straight into basically nonexistent matchmaking and absolutely ignoring it in order to pull arguments about killer's strength.This is like some challenger player in League playing some utterly bad champ while smurfing in silver, winning every game and people then acting like that champ is actually very good.
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Right, all these content creators are clearly just lying out of their teeth to support some agenda. It couldn't ever be that maybe you just aren't as good as you think you are, and that that's why some content creators say you can beat even good survivors if you are good enough with the killer while you struggle to do so.
And it's definitely not 95% of the killer roster that can't deal with very good survivors.
Of course it's map dependent, there are certain maps where Pig will definitely struggle a lot, but generally 2 downs until 5 gens are popped means you got outplayed as killer multiple times. Which is fine, doesn't immediately mean you are a bad killer, just that you got outmindgamed multiple times. Stuff like that should be able to happen though, otherwise it would indicate that the killer you are using has too little counterplay.
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content creators, especially ones that do winstreaks, are way above skill of average player at soft cap, meaning they can literally achieve marvelous results by just expressing great amount of macro knowledge (average player heavily struggles in macro aspect of this game)
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I play Dracula too. I absolutely will admit he may need a couple small tweaks here and there. I have played Blight and Nurse in the past, Blight is fine if strong but Nurse definitely needs a power rework or a decent nerf. I just dunno what would be fair at this point.
I agree, the "But Good Survivors" line just no longer holds any water in 2025. Not enough Survs are actually good; are you getting your 60% Killrate on average? Yes? Then you're fine. it's why I don't believe Pig or Ghostface, both brought up in the thread, need seriously large buffs of any kind, just tweaks to make them play a little better, both are genuinely fine.
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Dracula is a bit overpowered due to overloaded kit and a bit too small cooldowns yea, but Blight okay and Nurse needs complete rework? Blight is literally problematic in quite a few aspects (token recharge, tokens not being deducted upon pallet break, fatigue too short, abnormal synergy with Brutal Strength due to these facts) and only thing problematic about Nurse is her synergy with aura reading perks.
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No! Please do not take away my ability to Ambush fake at pallets. Survivors will often abandon weak pallets in anticipation of an ambush if they've allowed her to take the pallet, especially if they hear her roar. If the Ambush is faked, survivors will often not be able to make the next resource before she catches up to get the down :)
Also this: 👉🐽
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I don't quite get what makes Dracula op. Like you say his overloaded kit, but I would argue that all of his abilities are relaitvely balanced. Hellfire is certainly one of the weaker ranged attacks of all killers, and the wolf's dash attack isn't too crazy either. Consider then the fact that he kind of has to alternate between those chase abilities, tanks to the cooldowns, and I find Dracula to be pretty well balanced.
The only nerf he might need in my opinion is a very slight increase of his transfonmation time from bat form into the other two forms. But even that I am not convinced by. I'd rather have strong killers and have more problematic stuff on the killers side nerfed.
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Let me ask you a question then. How do you play Pig? Do you use moondash? Do you crouch to bait shift w? Do you use JMF, the most based Pig addon?
Piggy's power is difficult to balance because she has the strongest Bild in slowdown that can also give you a kill. To balance that out, her chase HAS to be weak(er). That's how it is. I did say though, that she could use one or two small buffs to her chase. Getting the first trap out can take a very long time.
A bit faster crouching and maybe longer ambush would be a good idea.
To compensate for these buffs, they should remove the screaming build synergy that she has, as it is low risk, high reward compared to her usual playstyle being high risk, high reward.
Speaking from roughly 2.5k hours on Piggy alone, I'd say that she's comfy in the middle of c-tier right next to Sadako.
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It's obvious I know how to play her... it wouldn't make sense for me to be mean to her and put her at P100 with so many killers that are easier and stronger to use.
I'm just saying that it's very "Normal" for the survis Insta Drop the pallet as soon as the loop arrives, then their ambush is useless and it always will be.What buffs do you think the Pig deserves to make it a B Tier?
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Good question...
I think the pigs problem lies not with her but the game itself.
The games design encourages pre dropping against m1 killers, as they can't do anything against it. Buffing Pig so that she can deal with it consistently would just be a band aid.
We need to change up map design so that these killer have reliable chances. Starting with shack. Against good survivors, the shack is just a 100% time waste without a reward for the Pig.
Changing this up however has to come with heavy nerfs to strong map mobility killers like Ghoul, Billy, Blight and the like.
As you see, this is a tricky problem. Either you go the easy? route and buff the pigs chase (a bit) or you change up the whole game for the better, which obviously takes A LOT more effort.
Sadly the latter will likely not happen anytime soon, so my suggestion would be to make crouching and uncrouching a bit faster and the ambush-duration a bit longer.
Compensation would be to delete synergy with screaming perks on boxes.
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I always wanted something like this: There are killers that are 4.4, others that are tall and short, because there are no killers that can break pallets faster and vaulting faster... and the "M2" ones that more slower? (or stay the same?)
("M1" killers should break & vaulting more faster than the others) and I think it's the best option.Or simply buff Fire Up and Brutal Strength, and killers like Blight / Wesker / Spirit, etc., have a power cooldown when they break a pallet (like Kaneki), but effectively with very different and insignificant cooldowns so they don't feel nerfed.
Pig needs Bamboozel and Brutal Strength, Fire Up sometimes relies on many chase perks, which are very limited because if they were to buff them, dash killers would be completely broken.
That's why everyone wants to learn how to play with Billy / Blight / Nurse because they don't need chase perks and can take 4 anti-gen perks, tunneling, and camp from the start.
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Honestly, there is just one single chase perk that I use on Pig. Never dropped it since I started playing her.
Most people here already know my addiction to that perk:
No perk does what Stbfl does. It has great synergy with Piggy and supports those that are very good at m1 killer gameplay.
On topic: You see how dofficult it is to balance killers in the current state of the game. In my opinion, the best option would be to tackle the problem at its root, but im afraid that its way too late for that.
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I just see this video on Tiktok, if these M1 killers had a 5% bonus on breaking and vaulting "for example" (to say a random number), it could make their help a little easier. There are killers who should break and vault pallets faster than others. The problem is easy to fix, but Behaviour doesn't listen to us or does it think it would be unfair?
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This clip is showing bad gameplay.
How to play Pig on gideon: stealth hit and run. You use the size of the map and your stealth to your advantage. If you commit to chases like this on THAT map, then you willingly throw the game.
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